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Thread: How to kill a forum

  1. #1
    Over the years I have been a member of several different Internet discussion groups and forums about Las Vegas and gambling.

    Most of them died for the same reason: disrespect of others that created ill will and prompted members to leave.

    It's easy to be disrespectful of others when you're online. You don't have to worry about getting socked in the nose, and you don't have to worry about your wife looking at you like you're a raving lunatic when you hurl insults.

    Online, there are those who are "right" and will pound away at those who are wrong. You wouldn't bury a friend or neighbor with insults after winning a point, would you?

    I won't mention the other forum here by name, but there is another forum where the members literally will gang up and pound away at anyone who doesn't see it the same way that the majority sees it. On that forum "right" equals "might" which means they will pound the poster with the wrong opinion until he goes away.

    If folks participated in online discussions the way they talk at dinner parties, the online discussion groups would survive.

    We've had our problems here. In part because i let the problems continue. I let the problems continue in an attempt to protect the concept of free speech. But as I mentioned in another thread "free speech sucks" and sometimes what is protected as free speech is simply trash talk. Yes, even the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled to protect trash talk.

    In the last couple of weeks we have welcomed here some new members and I thank them for joining. They have made some very strong contributions here and if you've noticed our number of active viewers has increased dramatically. There used to be a time when we had about 20 or 30 active viewers on the site. Now, we are usually running more than 100 active viewers on the site at any time, and this morning I saw more than 160 active viewers on the site at one time. We have more active viewers on this discussion forum than on another forum that recently sold in a million-dollar-plus deal.

    I think our community has grown because we have added a lot of quality discussions here and I want that to continue. Thank you for your contributions. Thank you for starting new topics of discussion, too. You have broadened our horizons and I thank you.

    I would hate to see the recent growth destroyed by antagonistic comments.

    Please. When you post, instead of posting as if you are sitting at home or in your office without your wife or significant under watching every word that you type, post as if you are having a discussion at the dinner table during a lavish dinner party with neighbors and business associates -- people whose feelings you wouldn't want to hurt, ever.

    If we act like we are at a dinner party with friends and neighbors and associates, our forum will grow, our discussions will be better, and we will all learn more from the additional information that is shared here.

    Thanks.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  2. #2
    They don't gang up on someone until that person goes away -- the problem is the (wrong) person continues fighting back. What would an employer do if an employee lashed out once? Probably fix the situation, perhaps a warning or something of the sort. Now, what happens if that employee continuously lashes out against his employer? After the employee continues to get reprimanded, eventually he's going to complain because the boss hates him. The employee either quits or gets fired - and he makes it up to "the boss hated me and attacked me whenever he could".

    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
    Online, there are those who are "right" and will pound away at those who are wrong. You wouldn't bury a friend or neighbor with insults after winning a point, would you?
    It's a two-way street. After winning a point (on a forum), the 'attacks' do not continue. Unfortunately for you (and the others on WOV who are essential outcasts) keep on fighting back. The point is not won until the (wrong) person concedes he was in fact wrong.

    We all know you're a free-speech advocate (I agree with you there). But how do you feel about someone posting or saying information that is either flat out wrong or can hurt others? Let's say, for instance, I was an advocate for the martingale betting system? (I hope you know martingale is a losing system, for this post to make sense.) Now I go on your forum or other forums and keep spouting off on how great this system is, it's so wonderful, you'll be a winner, easy money, etc. Would you respond to my post and say, "Hey, that's not true. Martingale is NOT a winning system, it's a losing system..stop lying." Would you turn a blind eye and think, "Freedom of speech, he can do what he wants, even if it's hurting others"?



    PS: I am extremely skeptical that this forum is bringing in anywhere near the amount of traffic WOV brings in, let alone bringing in MORE traffic.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    PS: I am extremely skeptical that this forum is bringing in anywhere near the amount of traffic WOV brings in, let alone bringing in MORE traffic.
    Check the independent web tracking company Quantcast. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantcast

    For this site: https://www.quantcast.com/alanbestbu...qcLocale=en_US
    For Brand B: https://www.quantcast.com/search?q=wizardofvegas.com

    Brand B's traffic is so low, it doesn't even show up.

    There is a very loyal audience of about 200 at WOV. Congratulations.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  4. #4
    Looks like the owner of the website has to sign up and "get quantified" or something. Nothing shows up for WOV (or WOO).

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Looks like the owner of the website has to sign up and "get quantified" or something. Nothing shows up for WOV (or WOO).
    Quantified? What's that? I'm not signed up for their services. I've paid nothing to be rated.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  6. #6
    Alan, your forum is popular these days because of the controversy between the wingnut, Rob Singer, and AP's like me. Take a look at all those viewers. They are not posting here. They are just reading us for entertainment. They look at us with morbid fascination. I'm the best AP on the planet. Am I afraid of Rob Singer? Get the hell out. I don't care what he says or how many challenges he makes. I'll stomp his little ass to hell. Alan, do you know how many coward AP's are afraid of Rob? Afraid of making statements contrary to his strategy? There's a bunch of them. Just because they are AP's doesn't mean that they were born with guts.

    Alan, you have a most popular site. The people, your viewers like to watch, maybe for entertainment purposes, the joust between the wingnut Rob Singer and the AP's, at least the AP's that have balls enough to go with him, on this journey called gambling.

    Trust me, Alan. You should continue to do what you do. The strongest of us support you 100%. Don't worry about all the word that come up between Singer and us. In the end we love Singer too. We might put boot in his ass at a strategic time, and watch that little bitch go asshole over tea kettle, but we love him just the same.

    The preceding was a paid political announcent.

  7. #7
    https://www.quantcast.com/search?q=wizardofvegas.com =

    No search results to display for wizardofvegas.com
    try these: Goodreads, yelp.com, tmz.com, FAQs
    https://www.quantcast.com/wizardofve...qcLocale=en_US =

    PROFILE NOT QUANTIFIED

    Data is not available for this profile. Quantify your property for powerful cross-platform audience measurement used by leading publishers, for free.

    Learn more about Measure
    GET QUANTIFIED
    Can't Find a Report?
    Some reports are currently only available in the Measure Classic profile. Click here to switch back to Measure Classic.
    MEASURE CLASSIC

  8. #8
    I guess RS___ that low traffic sites can ask Quantcast to rate them. Do you think Facebook asked Quantcast to rate them?
    Nope they didn't. But look at the traffic that Facebook has:

    https://www.quantcast.com/facebook.com?qcLocale=en_US

    Gee, eBay isn't quantified either, but Quantcast has their traffic:

    https://www.quantcast.com/ebay.com?qcLocale=en_US
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  9. #9
    Oh.....I didn't know you were actually serious. I thought it was some sort of joke. But no, facebook is not quantified, but it does show 1 graph (nothing else, at least that I can see) about facebook on that page.

    Nothing shows up for WOV nor WOO. Little information about FB shows up. But yet, Alanbestbuys has all sorts of detailed information. So much for making it look unbiased (not that the website is unbiased, but, it is clear you "quantified" your website by signing up or doing whatever needs to be done). LOL.

    Try these:

    http://www.similarweb.com/website/alanbestbuys.com
    15K Views

    http://www.similarweb.com/website/wizardofvegas.com
    95K Views

    http://www.similarweb.com/website/wi...s.com#overview
    440K Views


    https://siteanalytics.compete.com/wi.../#.VrSBwcYrLnB
    176K unique visits

    https://siteanalytics.compete.com/wi.../#.VrSB8cYrLnB
    34K unique visits

    https://siteanalytics.compete.com/alanbestbuys.com/
    "THIS SITE HAS RELATIVELY LOW TRAFFIC. WHILE COMPETE CAN PROVIDE VALUABLE INSIGHTS ABOUT SITES LIKE THESE, DATA FOR THIS DOMAIN IS CURRENTLY ONLY AVAILABLE TO COMPETE PRO MEMBERS."

    It appears none of the 3 sites (WOO, WOV, ABB) have paid for their site to show data. (Look at the top right area, all 3 say same thing) --

    Upgrade to Compete PRO Intro or Advanced to run and export unlimited reports.
    Get started today to get early data access each month and much more.
    https://www.semrush.com/info/wizardofvegas.com?db=us


    https://www.semrush.com/info/wizardofodds.com?db=us


    https://www.semrush.com/info/alanbestbuys.com?db=us



    Comparing all 3 on one chart:

    https://www.semrush.com/info/history...//us/Or//us/Or


    Got the websites from here: http://www.incomediary.com/how-much-...c-website-gets
    Last edited by RS__; 02-05-2016 at 03:19 AM.

  10. #10
    RS__ thanks for the fantastic news. Using your stats and knowing what the Wiz sold his sites for, my site is worth a lot more than I thought. Thanks for the research.

    Now getting back to idea that some people just have to pound others into submission....
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  11. #11

  12. #12
    I reread post #2 in this thread.

    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Let's say, for instance, I was an advocate for the martingale betting system? (I hope you know martingale is a losing system, for this post to make sense.) Now I go on your forum or other forums and keep spouting off on how great this system is, it's so wonderful, you'll be a winner, easy money, etc. Would you respond to my post and say, "Hey, that's not true. Martingale is NOT a winning system, it's a losing system..stop lying."
    If I were at a dinner party I would never say "stop lying."

    And this was the point of my thread.

    Discussions here and certainly over on that other site too often are not in "dinner party fashion" and that's a shame.

    And that brings us to the point of who threw the first stone? Some of the feuds on this forum (and others) go back years, so it's hard to tell who in fact threw the first stone. But the forum participant who doesn't throw a stone back, in my view, is the winner.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  13. #13
    I always speak as if I am on a worldwide microphone. I am also of the belief that posters should use their real names whenever possible.

  14. #14
    I am in complete agreement with Frank.

  15. #15
    For some reason, I really like the V-Bulletin setup used by Alan's forum and Dan Druff's PFA forum. The Wizard of Vegas/Wizard of Odds sites seem really crappy and non-intuitive in comparison.

    EDIT: I also agree with Alan totally about the dinner party politeness, yet I find myself diverging away from Frank's opinion that real names should be publicly used whenever possible. People who aren't victimizing others online (including abuse that Alan describes) should have a right to privacy and anonymity if they so choose.
    Last edited by Count Room; 02-06-2016 at 08:14 AM.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    People who aren't victimizing others online (including abuse that Alan describes) should have a right to privacy and anonymity if they so choose.
    Agree. I don't keep my identity private to hide from people here. I do so to keep it from casino personnel. In this day and age of databasing (Griffin, OSN, ect.), your privacy is of utmost importance.

    And it's why I do not use players cards at casinos we "work" at.

  17. #17
    I like Frank's post. Even when I posted as MoneyLA on other forums I made it clear who I was. There is no reason to create a false identity online. However I would never expect someone like jbjb to use his real name or RS__ who says he works for a casino company to use his real name.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I like Frank's post. Even when I posted as MoneyLA on other forums I made it clear who I was. There is no reason to create a false identity online. However I would never expect someone like jbjb to use his real name or RS__ who says he works for a casino company to use his real name.
    Alan, does this mean you will be changing your forum policies to require full identities for all posters that don't work at casinos?

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Alan, does this mean you will be changing your forum policies to require full identities for all posters that don't work at casinos?
    No.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  20. #20
    It's up to the individual, but if anyone chooses to talk smack/be disrespectful/label someone as a liar, etc. etc., my belief is that they should either be forced to be known or be gone. I use the name I chose as an author, but before I did I gave a complete bio of my real name and life identifying the good and the bad, on my site which opened in 2000 and closed down in 2009 when I retired from pro play. And although various individual geniuses (aka spock, arci, mickey etc.) continue to claim I've used different handles on different forums, I've never done that without doing what Alan has done: identify myself up front.

    So while there is some value to what Frank posted, there's really no reason for everybody to do so. And the issue with jbjb/RS__ not identifying themselves seems OK, except for the fact that they both talk smack from time to time, although it isn't overwhelming by any means. What's confusing about them is how they make claims of huge "edges" wherever with no support, knowing we'd all like more information because it piques our interest. After all, this is a gaming forum and people tune in here for better explanations than "I'm a pro and I don't want to give my play away". Identifying just one reasonable 10% or greater play would go a long way at a place like this.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 02-06-2016 at 01:43 PM.

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