End of an era: Caesars changing all craps tables

[Chimp]

What happens in Vegas.....

[jbjb]

.... Usually ends up on the news.

[Chimp]

.... Usually ends up on the news.

Or worse....on this forum!

[Alan Mendelson]

Well Chimp, I think there are many things on this forum that really never happened in Vegas or anywhere else. That's the difference between "news" and a forum.

[RS__]

I was at CP the other day.

Craps tables in the forum casino (closer to food court area).

Regular craps pit is roped off, with brand new looking tables set up. Some had dirt or sawdust on them, one or two had the lid still wrapped up, while other tables had their lids locked in. Obviously all the tables were out of service and didn't have any cheques in the bank. Diamonds on back wall looked really small, maybe 1 square inch each. Most tables at other casinos I've seen, diamonds appear to be about 1.5x1.5 or 2x2 inches.

[Alan Mendelson]

Thanks for the info RS__. I tried calling the craps pit yesterday and now I know why no one answered. There was no one there!

I heard some of the old tables would be in the Forum Casino during the transition. I was told it will take about two weeks.

Interesting about the smaller diamonds. What about their depth or height? If smaller and less protruding they could have less impact on the dice.

Could you see how many player positions?

Are the layouts on and any changes to layout such as pays on field and center table bets?

[redietz]

Alan, for those people who attempt dice influencing, where would you recommend they now play as an alternative to Caesars?

The other question I have is regarding other CET properties. Has Paris or will Paris also likely switch to larger tables? Have you seen the switch at other CET properties?

And thanks for the article. It's very helpful people understand in advance what changes have been made.

[regnis]

Do you know if they left sufficient room between the pass line and the wall? At the Horseshoe Hammond, Indiana, the pass line is so close to the wall that you have to hit the chips. All the big players, including me, left and no longer will play there.

Otherwise, I always preferred a longer table for throwing the dice. They used to have long tables at Flamingo--that is where I had several of my biggest rolls. They shortened the tables years ago.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, for those people who attempt dice influencing, where would you recommend they now play as an alternative to Caesars?

The other question I have is regarding other CET properties. Has Paris or will Paris also likely switch to larger tables? Have you seen the switch at other CET properties?

And thanks for the article. It's very helpful people understand in advance what changes have been made.

The theory of dice influencing includes being closest to the stickman and the back wall. So any casino with short or shorter tables is what you are looking for. Another concern is the bounce of the table. Some short tables could have a lot of bounce because of padding under the felt.

MGM Grand had one short table when I played there years ago -- it's the table where I had my monster roll that got me in trouble. A pit boss told every boxman in the place not to let me shoot again.

I like the tables at Bellagio because they all seem to be the same size with a uniform bounce.

Red Rock's tables seemed okay.

Tables at Paris are a nice size. Pretty good bounce.

But my favorite table was the single table they used to have at Gold Strike in Jean -- it was small, with no padding so the dice clanked. But when MGM sold Gold Strike they took the table out.

But you could play on a "perfect table" and if your throw is "off" you'll never be able to influence the dice. Nearly everyone who attempts DI has a throw which cannot possibly influence the dice in any meaningful way.

It is incredibly difficult to throw both dice parallel to the table, released at the same time, with the same rotation. Try it by throwing dice on your bed and see for yourself if the dice stay together and rotate as mirror images and hit the bed at the same time -- and chances are you can't do it. I try but I can't do it, at least not often enough that I can call myself "effective." I just like trying.

What will other CET casinos do about their tables? I don't know. But Caesars Palace was the first to eliminate boxmen and then all the others followed.