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Thread: Why Caesars Caters to its 7 Stars Players

  1. #1
    First some background: I saw a story in the LV Review Journal that Caesars was hiring for the WSOP and I was curious to see what jobs were open, etc.

    I went to the Caesars job site and started to see that they had hundreds of jobs open and I started to read the job descriptions.

    One caught my eye -- not because I was qualified or interested in the job -- but because of the info in the job description.

    The job was for a vice president of gaming analytics.

    What stuck out in the job description was that 5% of the players identified as VIP players are responsible for more than 40% of the company's gaming revenue.

    This is why there are special lines for 7 Stars at the cage and the restaurants. They want them playing as much as possible and not waiting for anything.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  2. #2
    Common knowledge. MGM and others are no different.

  3. #3
    Not that I'm going to apply, but I would do a great job as VP of Gaming Analytics.

    That's because I believe today's casinos are somewhat confused and misguided as to which customers they should roll out the red carpet for, and which they should encourage to stay away.

    Basically, I believe they are too obsessed with tier levels and ADT, and not enough with attracting the actual "live ones" who are almost sure to lose.

    If I were running CET, I would do the following from a casino standpoint:

    - Make Seven Stars "invite only" similar to Noir, to prevent grinders/APs from achieving it cheaply. Base invitation upon a combination of ADT and frequency of play. Make Seven Stars membership based upon a rolling 12 months, rather than calendar years.

    - Give big preference to slot players (guaranteed losers, likely NOT APs)

    - Run analysis on players who mysteriously seem to run a lot of coin-in and not losing the expected amount, and no-offer them. These are probably APs who have figured out how to game the system (such as playing progressive slot machines at the right time), and no-offer them.

    - Degrade VP paytables to scare off the APs and grinders. Very few VP players are aware of pay tables these days, and tend to instead focus on hitting big hands. Lean toward installing more machines with high payouts but high casino hold, such as bad paytable double-double-bonus.

    - Give preference to pit game players with poor skill, such as bad blackjack players.

    - Dial down or eliminate the need for hosts. Their presence is antiquated and extraneous in the age of computers, and in fact they intimidate and stress out many gamblers. Make everything more computerized and automatic, and staff a customer service group in the place of hosts (ones who do not get commission).
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at

  4. #4
    Actually Noir is not "invite only." It says "invite only" just as Seven Stars says "Seven Stars Tier Status is by invitation only." Dan, did anyone invite you? No one invited me either. When you scored the required points you made Seven Stars. And that's what happens with MGM's Noir -- when you score the required points you make Noir.

    The only difference is MGM does not put on its website how many points are needed for Noir. How many points do you need? I was told 800,000 points as a "rough figure" when I asked. I have about 555,000 so far this year (fiscal, not a calendar year).

    Regarding Caesars, Dan, some of the things you mentioned are already factored in for table players. For example, table players are rated and awarded tier points and comps based on their skill. This means the more skill you have the FEWER tier points and comps you are going to be rewarded by the system. I know this for a fact because of my experience playing craps.

    I am rated as an "experienced" craps player. That doesn't mean I actually have more experience than some guy who has been playing craps 20 years longer than I have, it means that I make "better bets" with a lower house edge. I know Seven Stars players who play with me at the craps tables who get TEN TIMES the comps and more tier points I do even though I bet more than they do and for longer times. Why are they rewarded more than I am? Because they are betting higher house-edge bets such as hardways and hop bets and the field and I don't. I still to passline and place bets. I bet more, I play longer but THEY get better offers and have higher tier scores than I have.

    Regarding hosts: you want them eliminated because they want nothing to do with you. So I understand your feeling. But when I need something my host gets it for me, and when my host isn't available anyone in the host's office will take care of me. I'm not going to discuss what hosts do for me publicly but if you call me Dan I will tell you privately. It will amaze you.

    Degrade the pay tables at VP? Are you serious? Caesars has too many empty VP machines as it is. Every vacant VP machine is costing them money: taxes plus fees.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  5. #5
    I don't play at MGM properties, so I wouldn't be invited to anything.

    However, I was told that Noir isn't the same as Seven Stars with the automatic invitation. I was told that they review each member -- presumably not approving the overcomped grinders or people with a bad ADT.

    I realize about the skill rating for table games. That has existed for decades. However, I feel it is under-utilized when offering comps to people, unless they are REALLY bad and get a bottom rating. The really bad ones often get the red carpet rolled out for them, but the semi-bad players don't get comped enough. I laughed at the fact that a fairly bad blackjack player I know (he comes to Vegas about once or twice a month, gets drunk, loses a few thousand minimum each time) is just a Platinum and is entitled to far fewer perks than I am.

    As far as hosts go, they could be replaced by computers and a customer service desk. I'm not saying humans should be completely eliminated from the marketing process, but they no longer need hosts to "bring in" gamblers, as was needed in the past before the age of computer marketing.

    For every good host story, there is a bad one where a regular gambler is turned off by an overly aggressive host who complains that they don't play enough, or misleads them into believing they will get comps that end up not materializing. Or they comp people with their own RCs and don't tell them that until they find out themselves the hard way. Just lots of bad stories like that. Hosts are an antiquated concept. They were needed in the past when the only way to get losing gamblers back was to have human beings handling them and making offers to them. Now they are extraneous.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at

  6. #6
    Regarding paytables of VP, most players are ignorant to them. Go up to the average VP player and ask them what the "full pay" tables are supposed to be for the variant they're playing, and they will look at you like you're speaking to them in Martian.

    Most people these days sit down to a video poker game and shoot for the big hands. That is, they don't really notice the flush or full house payout, but rather focus on the exciting quads-with-kicker or royal payouts.

    Those that DO notice paytables (and know what to expect) typically won't play the bad games anyway, so you're not gaining much when you do get their business.

    Casinos are slowly learning that, aside from very high limit players, informed gamblers simply aren't worth their time and effort, and they'd rather market to the ignorant.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at

  7. #7
    Dan like Caesars won't give you Seven Stars if you bounced checks, punched a dealer or owe on markers, MGM does the same. That's the extent of the invitation review. Don't be naive. There is no secret society committee that says "let's let Dan in."
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  8. #8
    Reading "Whale Hunt in the Desert" sensitized me to the fact that the top 5% provide half of the income, basically (CET's 40% may actually be low). Since then, I have occasionally brushed into that statistic in various articles. It is rarely explored.

    "Addiction by Design" does go into the statistic -- the locals' casinos rely on their LV vp and slot addicts to generate their income, as opposed to the non-local whales who fund CET and MGM.

  9. #9
    Last weekend when I was at Caesars I had the opportunity to watch a BIG LOSER. He was at my table. Ironically he lost big when I hit the ALL two times. Prior to the first time I hit the ALL he complained that he was down about $20,000 during that particular weekend, and the weekend before he said he lost $40,000. He lost so much because he bet big and numbers were not repeating.

    The first time I hit the ALL, I made only two passes. The second time I hit the ALL I made only ONE pass. I was not repeating numbers that often and this guy was pressing rather than taking the wins.

    He was an out of towner, and from his conversation with another player he was from the DC area. One other thing: he did not have a credit line. I saw him at the cage, at the next window, taking cash using a debit card from a major bank. I knew he was accessing his cash account at the bank because the cashier was giving him slot vouchers to cover the fees, which is what Caesars does for 7 Stars players.

    I forgot to mention: he did not bet the Small, Tall, All. He called them sucker bets.
    It's all about quitting when ahead.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    I forgot to mention: he did not bet the Small, Tall, All. He called them sucker bets.
    Technically they are, but I make them because the are cheap and win makes a big difference the a weekend trip. They are a jackpot bet as opposed to the pass line which is a "smart bet".

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