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Thread: On/off casino play strategy to generate offers

  1. #1
    I have a friend who is only an occasional VP player, and he volunteered to try an experiment. I will refer to him as "Rick", though that's not his real name.

    The theory: Even if you're overcomped and have milked a casino big time for freeplay and other perks while not playing, it will start giving you nice offers again if you wait some time and start playing regularly again, while not using comps/perks during your return.

    Here's how it went:

    1) Rick got a new Total Rewards card (he didn't have one yet), ran about $10,000 of coin-in on a fairly good (but not great) VP game in Vegas, and then stopped playing. The theory was that he would get several lucrative offers a few months later, and Rick could milk them for about 6 months before the computer would stop it.

    2) This plan worked. Rick got a lot of nice offers and redeemed them. This included several freeplays of as much as $500 (about 2 weeks apart each), an NCL cruise with an inside stateroom, show tickets, a room on New Year's Eve, etc. Rick made several trips in 2014 and early 2015, milking the comps (and staying in comped rooms) before the computer got wise and cut off the offers. At this point, Rick was WAY overcomped.

    3) Rick told me that he felt the jig was up, and he would never get comped at CET again. I told him not to conclude that, and just to sit tight. Rick decided to wait out the entire year of 2015 and do nothing. Didn't play, didn't stay, didn't ask for comps, nothing. Just pretended CET didn't exist.

    4) In 2016, Rick started playing again. However, I told him NOT to utilize any comps while doing so. In fact, I told him NOT to stay at a CET property under his own name. Rick went with his girlfriend and the rooms were booked under her name, so there was no record that Rick was staying at CET. In a few consecutive stays, Rick ran between 1000 and 2500 tier credits. To the computer, it looked like Rick was just in town and strolled into CET properties and was playing actively again, while using no comps or staying on property.

    5) Rick just called me to advise me that his offers had returned. This took about 3 months. Initially he got crap offers, but after 3 moths passed, they improved. He now has offers worth about $200 each, but are fairly close together where in fact he could double-dip if he could find somewhere else to stay in the interim 48 hours (or just book those 2 days in his girlfriend's name).


    This is interesting because Rick is STILL overcomped. That is, he has used far more comps than his play has earned (even with his recent 2016 play), but the computer chose to forgive and forget, as it appeared he showed up in 2016 and played a few times without needing any comps to bring him out there. So it decided he was once again a "live one" and started generating offers as if 2014 never happened.

    This is something that you guys can try to utilize. If you have a wife or husband with a TR card (or even better, without one) but doesn't play much, and tends to travel with you, then you can mimic the above. They will most likely earn comps far in excess of your expected loss, and will also have a second room you can get when the comps are "on" if you already get one room free on your own card.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    This is excellent, Dan. Thanks for posting.

    I had never exactly figured out what the general philosophies were, as sometimes I did this and it worked with different companies and sometimes not. I think you provided the key piece of information -- DO NOT stay in the property when you make your nonchalant "comeback." I never figured that out.

    Thanks for the information.

    I'm still trying to understand the Venetian. I signed up for their card, bet (and lost) 10K on a boxing match, did not stay there, never asked for anything except a comped drink, and never got so much as a postcard.

  3. #3
    Also, kudos to Dan for sharing this. I'm a tight-lipped mother and would have kept it to myself.

  4. #4
    You didn't tell us his win/loss on the initial $10,000. That's the key. If he won and got offers then great. But if he lost the offers are meaningless.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    You didn't tell us his win/loss on the initial $10,000. That's the key. If he won and got offers then great. But if he lost the offers are meaningless.
    The win/loss amount is meaningless.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by rs__ View Post
    the win/loss amount is meaningless.
    omg__!

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Also, kudos to Dan for sharing this. I'm a tight-lipped mother and would have kept it to myself.
    The casinos thank you too. Every wannabe rs__ in the country just wet their pants.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    The win/loss amount is meaningless.
    Yes I understand the thinking: lose $10,000 but get $500 free play for the next three trips and it's a success.

  9. #9
    Even on a hideous day, running 10K coin thru won't blow more than 7 or 8%, so you're looking at a $700 or $800 loss as a worst case scenario. The free play by itself would make up for that. Would I do it at CET in LV? Maybe; maybe not. But I'd sure do it elsewhere on better games.

  10. #10
    A worst case scenario? Let's deal with facts: specifically how much was won or lost?

    By the way $10,000 coin in at video poker would generate at best 1,000 tier points. That would generate ZERO offers.

    Let's get real guys.

  11. #11
    I am going to specially ask Dan to fess up and admit that his original post was a fabrication. Running $10,000 coin in on video poker would at best earn 1,000 tier points. No one would get free play offers of $500 or anything close to it not once and certainly not multiple times several weeks apart. This was total BS. It doesn't happen and it didn't happen.

    Now, if this friend actually lost $10,000 then free play offers of as much as $500 on multiple weeks are possible.

    Do the math people. The original post can't be true.

  12. #12
    My post was not a fabrication. The story is real, and I have verified it to be true.

    "Rick" did have fairly bad luck and lost over $1000 when running the $10k of coin-in, but he got it back several times over via freeplay and other offers.

    Alan, this isn't about tier points.

    It's about the marketing computer believing it has a "live one" and trying to entice the person to come back.

    You yourself have posted stories about people getting a new card, playing a tiny bit at high limits, and getting nice offers to come back.

    Same concept here, except it takes the situation one step further by triggering the offers AGAIN by waiting some time and returning to the property to play again.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    This is excellent, Dan. Thanks for posting.

    I had never exactly figured out what the general philosophies were, as sometimes I did this and it worked with different companies and sometimes not. I think you provided the key piece of information -- DO NOT stay in the property when you make your nonchalant "comeback." I never figured that out.

    Thanks for the information.

    I'm still trying to understand the Venetian. I signed up for their card, bet (and lost) 10K on a boxing match, did not stay there, never asked for anything except a comped drink, and never got so much as a postcard.
    It's not uncommon for casinos to give you zero comps on sportsbetting.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #14
    How much more than $1,000 did he lose?
    And my examples of offers -- playing $100 in a $100 slot machine -- had nothing to do with free play.
    Sorry Dan. Your story is baloney.
    Of course accidents will happen but no one should think what happened in your "story" could ever happen to them.
    This is too good to be true.

  15. #15
    That's a harsh assessment, but if you go out on a limb and call Mortadella baloney, one should call baloney baloney.

    My packages of baloney say "refrigerate at all times," which makes me wonder about a certain storage locker.

  16. #16
    But what do your packages of balogna say to do?

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It's not uncommon for casinos to give you zero comps on sportsbetting.
    So redietz loses $10K on a sports bet and gets zip. But miraculously a VP player loses only a fraction of that and gets a deluge of offers that wipe out his loss? Isn't this just a little bit fantastic?

  18. #18
    What concerns me is that a knowledgeable sports bettor like Redietz bet $10,000 on a boxing "exhibition" with all of its inherent risks (cheating, drugs, fixes, promoter control etc.)

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    How much more than $1,000 did he lose?
    And my examples of offers -- playing $100 in a $100 slot machine -- had nothing to do with free play.
    Sorry Dan. Your story is baloney.
    Of course accidents will happen but no one should think what happened in your "story" could ever happen to them.
    This is too good to be true.
    It's not too good to be true. And the story is 100% legit. I wouldn't post lies out here, and never have before.

    I am trying to demonstrate how the CET marketing computer works. (Other casino companies work in a similar fashion, as well.)

    Your thinking here is too black-and-white.

    You seem to believe that more play = more offers, and more losses = more offers.

    WRONG

    The formula to determine offers is very complex, and involves many factors.

    For one, a person signing up for a NEW Total Rewards card will get MUCH better offers if they play once and don't come back than someone who has been reliably playing the same limits.

    Why?

    Because the computer knows that the addicted gambler is a creature of habit and will keep coming back to the place he likes, so he only needs minimal enticement to do so.

    However, the "one and done" gambler -- someone the computer sees as visiting the property once, playing middle or high liimts, and then not coming back -- is a potential regular customer who needs to be wooed.

    So the computer fires off some lucrative offers to get that person into the habit of gambling at CET.

    Go ahead, try it. Next time you have a steady girlfriend, sign her up for a Total Rewards card (assuming she doesn't already have one), play one day on her card, and then watch the nice offers roll in about 3 months later.

    This part was already known and discussed out here in the past.

    The new variable is that this same player -- who plays once, gets nice offers, milks them, and doesn't play again -- isn't dead in the water. Apparently they can shut down for a year or so, come back and play (without staying there), and the process starts all over to some extent (though the offers won't be quite as good as before).
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  20. #20
    Alan, here is where you need to modify your thinking.

    I think you might believe that your play EARNS offers for the future.

    It does not.

    Offers for the future are not earned. They are enticements to return. The computer tries to figure out the minimum it can offer you to get you to come back, and that's what it sends you.

    Regular players need less enticement than one-time visitors. So they get better offers.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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