On/off casino play strategy to generate offers

[Alan Mendelson]

what I suspect is the reason his friend scored well.

Yes, being a no show for a period of time will get you offers to come back.

This past October I was invited back to Bellagio after being a no show for a number of years. My "come back" offer was large because the host making it used to work at Caesars.

We are being asked to believe several things in the original post:

1. That the player earned only 1,000 tier points from his $10,000 of coin in at video poker and still got generous offers because he then became a no-show.

2. That the player lost only $1,400 and still got generous offers because he then became a no-show.

So... I want to know if there is ANYONE ELSE who has ever received offers like this player got who had similar play? If just ONE forum member told me they had a similar experience it would have a big impact on my skepticism.

Yes, one person might have fallen thru the cracks. But the experience of one person doesn't help the rest of us. We know there are exceptions. We know there are lucky players who sit at a machine and get more tier points from their play than they are supposed to get. We know that accidents happen. But no one can use a strategy based on accidents that might happen.

Unless you can show me how this "strategy" is repeatable, I consider it an accident.

[RS__]

I didn't do it, but I know someone who played about $10k-11k coin in on VP and received $1,800 in FP. Loss was between $100 to $200.

[jetermacaw]

I get 1,000 tier credits on a regular basis and receive $15 in free play and a half priced buffet.

[Alan Mendelson]

I get 1,000 tier credits on a regular basis and receive $15 in free play and a half priced buffet.

Thank you.

[RoeIncarnate]

I get 1,000 tier credits on a regular basis and receive $15 in free play and a half priced buffet.

All this shows is that it doesn't take much to get you to go to a casino. It costs the casino about $20-30 to get you to come in and risk enough money to "earn" 1000 credits. What is the average loss? $100, $200, $400? Looks like a good profit to the casino.

The computers, algorithms, and research the casinos do all works to figure out the least amount they have spend to get you to come in and play. They spend a lot of money and time on these systems, hence the players card. If you and all their other customers come in and play, the casino WILL win money from you and all the other customers minus what they spent to get you there.

[Alan Mendelson]

Roe the point is Jeter is getting normal offers. I believe him. I don't believe someone who puts in 1,000 tier points and gets hundreds of dollars of free play offers.

The numbers in Dan's original post just don't make sense. Sorry.

[Bill Yung]

Many people have tried their whole lives to make something of gambling. Even while scamming others into believing in their books, seminars, systems, gambling sites, and online casino and other sponsors. As many people directly in the business, as casino owners, floor persons, dealers, have openly confirmed as much.

Look at where Shackleford ended up a few short years after commencing his own such forum. Straight down the shitter. Is this the recognition of a life well lived and received? Where a man should find himself at the end of a career? No one else wants to interview him, likely because, relatively speaking, he hasn't accomplished anything; and few in the real gambling industry and political spectrum have even heard of him, or pay any attention. He interviews himself, and contemplates a whole series of further interviews. Only about fifteen other persons on his forum acknowledged his latest attempt. Another of an endless series of attempts at "winning something". Oh, years ago, he won a blackjack tournament of a few "champion counters". Invitation only, no entry fee, no prize; and only after a decade or two(?) of wasting his LUCK with it.

His hangers-on, at Mike's House (Jonestown) - desperate and depleted - he is their last chance at something, err, anything. Analogous to rs_ and jbjb clinging also to Alan here. Validation and vindication enough for the few sane among us?



The only question now, why the h-e-double-l didn't he ask Alan for some advice about all this years ago. Specifically, why did he show Alan (, like so many other real experts there once upon a time,) the bum's rush, when Alan could have at least conducted the interviews with professionalism and precision. Fucking boggles the mind? People who are full of themselves. Even his old friends are "just not saying anything" anymore.

http://www.trafficestimate.com/wizardofvegas.com

http://www.trafficestimate.com/wizardofodds.com

I get a kick out of MrV, another disciple in sheep's clothing over there, who often excitedly explains how only the Odds site is important to its new owners. No, the Vegas correlates quite well. No social and mental breakdowns at the Odds site because nobody says anything there, or speaks of it elsewhere. (MrV owns/owned casino stock, and minor stock in stuff like Ahigh's hundred-dollar pinball machines.)

Would Shackleford have left his name on the old sites, to be dragged through gambling mud, had he the option to not do so? Of course not. Was it Shackleford who withdrew from his initial online casino sponsor, Bodog? Of course not. Not a guy who would, and did, recourse to begging for pocket change to keep the sites online, and himself solvent. So Bodog left because there was little or declining advertising value there anymore. The value was no longer worth the trade-off and stigma of the Wizard's obvious across-the-board incompetence and childishness. So a middleman who connects many less-particular online casinos with generic gamblers (who "no speakie the language") had no qualms about letting Mr. Shackleford down easy the rest of way. Did Shackleford sign confidentially away again, his patented lame excuse for never really talking about the details?

OMG! All this serious joking about buying souls. Can a person who sold out his soul from the beginning own souls? He'd only, eventually, sell also those.

[a2a3dseddie]

Roe the point is Jeter is getting normal offers. I believe him. I don't believe someone who puts in 1,000 tier points and gets hundreds of dollars of free play offers.

The numbers in Dan's original post just don't make sense. Sorry.

For you and the other Diamond or Seven Stars players here earning 1000 tier points is no big deal. But how would Caesars view that gambler?

A player with no history at that casino, suddenly shows up and plays enough to earn 1000 tier points. Wouldn't that be someone the casino would like to have come back?

Someone giving $10,000 in action and taking a loss of $1400 WITHOUT any incentive for showing up would be someone any casino would like to invite back.

[redietz]

Bingo! Give eddie the kewpie doll for careful reading.

This is what I was referencing earlier. Dan's friend had no TR card and was only an "occasional" vp player in general, so no sustained history of behavior out there in the data-mining market.

If you duplicate those variables, I think you'll see something like what he experienced.

[TomPits]

Hey guys I signed up to comment on this.

I agree with Alan.

I know a friend who lives in Upstate New York and visits AC once in a while. He's a gambler and doesn't play video poker. Slots mostly with some table games.

In spring 2015, he was on a super good run at the Trop and I knew he didn't have a TR card so I made the suggestion to him to go put some action there and he would likely get some good return offers.

That he did, went signed up at Caesars AC and started gambling heavy on high limit reel slots, $1 video slots, and max betting some penny games. He put on almost 2,000 Tiers in just over a couple hours of play. We anxiously awaited his return offers.

It took a couple months and the initial return offer in May 2015 was $100FP a week and 10,000 reward credits. That was it, hardly any offers for the summer and mostly just hotel stays.

In August he did take them up on a flight junket to AC which included air and 4 nights at Harrahs with no FP or F&B.

The reality is Dan's suggestion like Alan has said might have worked in 2014 when Caesars was still generous.

My friend put through $10,000 coin in in a couple hours of play as a new sign up playing high limit slots and hardly got any FP at all.

Simply put no one should be trying to mimic what Dan's suggesting and expect to get thousands in return offers for just $10,000 through VP. It's laughable to be honest to expect to get thousands in FP for that little of play.

[Alan Mendelson]

Hi TomPits thanks for joining and thanks for posting. Even though I don't own this forum anymore, I'll thank you for joining and for posting on behalf of Dan and the rest of us.

And thanks for agreeing, too.

Look, I'll say it again: earn 1,000 tier points and you'll get a hotel offer and maybe a little free play. But the numbers Dan gave us are a bit out of whack.

[Dan Druff]

Why do you guys keep saying, "That was 2014" when I have clarified again and again that this person recently got several nice offers in May 2016.

I just saw these offers in person today.

Do you guys think I'm lying?

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan I don't think you're lying. In fact, he might have gotten all the offers you said he did. And he might have played as little as he said he did. All I'm saying is that no one else should ever anticipate getting the same thing.

And if it's not repeatable, why should we care?

Some people get lucky.

We know about the player who sat at a machine and got more tier credits than he was supposed to get. He got lucky. Does that mean the rest of us will ever get as lucky? I don't think so.

The more I think about it, your friend's "success" is like Rob Singer breaking up three queens and hitting a royal flush.

Congratulate your friend. Everyone else will just have to be in awe. The chances of it happening to someone else are between slim and none.

If it has happened to someone else, let them tell us about it.

In the meantime, there are a lot of people who exaggerate their offers and their winnings and minimize their losses. You say you know this guy and you've seen his proof. Well, several years ago I interviewed for the news several people who SWORE to me that their FRIEND was a nurse in a hospital in Vegas where a man was taken with a kidney removed in a Vegas hotel room after he picked up a hooker. Remember that story? Well, NO ONE could give me the name of their FRIEND in the hospital. And of course as we all know now, that story was bogus and was Vegas urban legend.

[nerakil]

Why do you guys keep saying, "That was 2014" when I have clarified again and again that this person recently got several nice offers in May 2016.

I just saw these offers in person today.

Do you guys think I'm lying?

No, but could "Rick" be lying? Maybe.

I want to note that this likely will NOT work in the Connecticut casinos. Something CET doesn't do is pull current and future offers mid-month. For example, if you got your June mailer with free play dates, and you currently have May free play dates, you can no-play on each redemption day and nothing will happen- you are entitled to the entire amount. Or let's say you get three months worth of "Reel Rewards" from Harrah's/Harvey's Lake Tahoe- CET will never void the August coupon if you no-play them in June/July.

If you show up and collect your weekly free play in CT with no-play or little play, your current and future offers will get pulled swiftly (and your account will be red-flagged). They will not get reinstated, even if you bring in your mailer (they will cite the fine print). Your complaint of "but you already made the offers to me, you can't take them away!" will be met with "okay, sue us in tribal court".

[Dan Druff]

Casino offers are not the same as gambling.

Gambling, while built around a mathematical set of odds, is still primarily controlled by random events. So you hitting a jackpot today is meaningless to anyone else who tries to play, as you simply hit a fortunate, lucky random event.

Casino offers are not the ame. There is no element of randomness or chance. The computer knows exactly what it's doing, and does so based upon specifically programmed parameters.

Take Jon and Bill, both of whom don't have a TR card, and both of whom live in Los Angeles (but do not know each other).

On January 2, 2016, Jon and Bill both signed up for a TR card (independently), and both played 8-5 Bonus Poker at the same casino, for $10,000 coin-in each (independently). Both lost around $500, though not an identical amount.

Jon and Bill will receive identical offers, because they did the exact same thing on the same date and the same place, and had no history prior to it.

There is no chance that Jon would do better than Bill with his offers, or vice-versa.

Therefore, I reject your assertion that Rick "got lucky" with his offers.

No, he did not. He played in a specific pattern (on/off) in order to trigger the maximum value offers compared to his amount of play.

BTW, notice that several people in this thread have already stated that they've already seen this discussed elsewhere on the web, in forums consisting mostly of APs.

It has already been independently verified by others.


I know it sucks to think about a Johnny-come-lately player getting equivalent offers to you, when you have played hundreds of times the coin-in that he has. It seems unfair, and your immediate reaction would be to call it in to question, so you can feel better by believing that this situation is either a lie or a fluke.

But it's not.

It's known as playing the comp game, rather than letting the comp game play you.

[Dan Druff]

No, but could "Rick" be lying? Maybe.

I want to note that this likely will NOT work in the Connecticut casinos. Something CET doesn't do is pull current and future offers mid-month. For example, if you got your June mailer with free play dates, and you currently have May free play dates, you can no-play on each redemption day and nothing will happen- you are entitled to the entire amount. Or let's say you get three months worth of "Reel Rewards" from Harrah's/Harvey's Lake Tahoe- CET will never void the August coupon if you no-play them in June/July.

If you show up and collect your weekly free play in CT with no-play or little play, your current and future offers will get pulled swiftly (and your account will be red-flagged). They will not get reinstated, even if you bring in your mailer (they will cite the fine print). Your complaint of "but you already made the offers to me, you can't take them away!" will be met with "okay, sue us in tribal court".

I have personally seen Rick's offers, both in 2014 and 2016.

I also saw the number of tier credits he earned, both in 2014 and 2016.

Rick is telling the truth.

I do believe that this trick won't work at all casinos, though. In fact, the larger the casino (or casino group), the better it is likely to work.

[Dan Druff]

Hey guys I signed up to comment on this.

I agree with Alan.

I know a friend who lives in Upstate New York and visits AC once in a while. He's a gambler and doesn't play video poker. Slots mostly with some table games.

In spring 2015, he was on a super good run at the Trop and I knew he didn't have a TR card so I made the suggestion to him to go put some action there and he would likely get some good return offers.

That he did, went signed up at Caesars AC and started gambling heavy on high limit reel slots, $1 video slots, and max betting some penny games. He put on almost 2,000 Tiers in just over a couple hours of play. We anxiously awaited his return offers.

It took a couple months and the initial return offer in May 2015 was $100FP a week and 10,000 reward credits. That was it, hardly any offers for the summer and mostly just hotel stays.

In August he did take them up on a flight junket to AC which included air and 4 nights at Harrahs with no FP or F&B.

The reality is Dan's suggestion like Alan has said might have worked in 2014 when Caesars was still generous.

My friend put through $10,000 coin in in a couple hours of play as a new sign up playing high limit slots and hardly got any FP at all.

Simply put no one should be trying to mimic what Dan's suggesting and expect to get thousands in return offers for just $10,000 through VP. It's laughable to be honest to expect to get thousands in FP for that little of play.

Tom, glad to see a new user jumping into this discussion.

However, I have to say there's something wrong with your friend's AC story.

Granted, I don't have familiarity with the AC market, but it is shocking to me that a new slots player (something the casino LOVES) who runs $10,000 coin-in upon getting a new TR card is given crap offers.

That would NEVER happen in Vegas.

You said that he signed up for the TR Card in "Spring 2015" and got offers in May 2015. That couldn't have been very long. 2 months at the most?

Rick reported to me that his initial offers (the ones that came 1-2 months after he signed up) were crap -- like $40 freeplay, but that the next month they jumped to $500 type offers.

Is it possible he acted too quickly? Or was his first redemption that AC junket in August?

Unless the AC market acts very different than the Vegas market, something is off here.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan... all I want to see is ONE other player with a similar story. Just one.

[seemoreroyals]

Here is my 2 cents for what it's worth. Not exactly the same as Dan's friend but similar. We play on my wife's card mainly to make sure she reaches 7 star. Each year we time our play to get me past Diamond card level but here is where it get's interesting. She is a HL slot player and I am a low to mid range VP player. About twice a year she plays on my card. When she does all of a sudden my card goes from little to no activity to over 2500 tc's plus bonus in one night. This has gotten their attention at our home property because they have now assigned me a host. I get almost the same giveaway offers as she does. This past September they were giving away laptops and even though I was barely over 15,000 tc's at the time and my wife was over 150,000 I we both got laptops. In fact on a couple of occasions I received a few benefits that she did not get. We are careful not to play on my card unless we intend to put a significant amount of tc's on it in during a given day thereby keeping both of our ADT's at a respectable level. At some point they will probably realize that even though I am past Diamond for the year, I have no intention of adding much play to my card for the year. We will probably do one more session on my card later this year just to keep the pump primed and keep the offers coming. With CET they have a program in place and it is up to each of us to take advantage of it given our unique set of circumstances. So in conclusion, I would have to agree with Dan, that the on/off strategy does work in generating additional offers.

[redietz]

Dan... all I want to see is ONE other player with a similar story. Just one.

I believe Dan. I believe Rick. I also think the bigger the company the more likely this is to work.

The people who are saying nay are quoting people who have never limited their initial play to one or two sizable back-to-back sessions, then taken a year off. The fact somebody stepped in for the first time, ran 10K through, then stopped cold, all suggest that person is a sizable player ELSEWHERE. Therefore, CET is motivated to get them back in. Players generally don't behave like this unless they are playing elsewhere. It's the nature of the addiction, and CET has the profile data to support it.

The secondary consideration, from the CET perspective, is that the new player appeared and pumped 10K through because he or she had a financial/life status change (spouse died, parents died, divorce, sale-of-house-and-retirement) that makes them particularly juicy newcomers. CET will jump through hoops to acquire this person.

Again, in the second case, if the person takes the year off, CET will interpret that to mean the person is playing elsewhere.


An interesting side note: in a curious way, people who are arguing this could not happen are underestimating the confidence CET has in creating an ongoing addicted repeat customer. Yes, they will blow this amount of free play and offers because they have the data to back up how hooked people will get once acquired.

Now nobody wants to accept and acknowledge this, and that ironically makes it more likely to be the case.