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Thread: Venetian adds horrible "triple zero" roulette

  1. #1
    Not too long ago, casino managers believed that their players knew the odds fairly well. Therefore, they were afraid to manipulate popular pit games such as blackjack and roulette for additional profit, worrying alienating gamblers. They would create weird variants of the game to accomplish this, but as far as standard blackjack and roulette were concerned, they stayed mostly stable and consistent.

    In the early 2000s, Harrah's introduced 6:5 single-deck blackjack. Instead of paying 3:2 for a blackjack, they would only pay 6:5 ($60 payout for a $50 bet) at single-deck tables.

    This was actually genius for two reasons. First, Harrah's realized that the long-held assumption that gamblers were well-informed was incorrect. especially after the change in Vegas tourist demographics since the early '90s. Vegas tourists were now more families than hardcore gamblers. They only casually knew the games they played, and would not understand why the reduction of blackjack payouts from 3:2 to 6:5 was such a big deal.

    Second, they only did it at single-deck. This was because the public had an incorrect perception that single deck was "better for the player" because "it's what the pros play". The public didn't understand that blackjack pros only preferred single deck because card counting was more effective. If you don't know how to count cards, there's no point to play single-deck. However, the typical Vegas gambler didn't realize this, and would gravitate toward single-deck tables. When they saw the 6:5 rule, they would simply shrug their shoulders and assume that was just the "cost" of having a "better" game to play.

    6:5 single-deck was a huge hit, and soon spread throughout Vegas.

    Later, 6:5 tables were also introduced at "entertainment" pits, such as pits where the dealers impersonated celebrities or were scantly-clad young women. The rationale here was that, again, people would overlook the 6:5 payout in exchange for the sexier/more entertaining dealer. Again, this worked out great.

    In 2014, Venetian decided to try a new experiment, changing most blackjack games to 6:5, rather than just the single deck.

    But now they've really gone overboard.

    They've added triple-zero roulette, which has a staggering 7.69% house edge.

    For those of you who don't know roulette, it's the green zeroes on the wheel which give the house the edge. Without the zeroes, roulette would be a zero-edge game for both the house and player. For example, you can bet on regular numbers 1-36, and they will pay 35:1 (plus your original bet) for single-number bet, 17:1 for a 2-number bet, even-money if you bet half the numbers (such as 1-18), etc. The house wins because of the zeroes. If a zero hits, then every single bet loses, except for the bets on the zero.

    Initially, roulette was a "single zero" game, with a semi-reasonable house edge of 2.7%. This edge is easy to compute. Simply put, the zero would hit 1 out of 37 times (since there are 36 numbers plus the zero), which translates to 2.7%.

    Double-zero roulette was then introduced. It has both the regular single zero, as well as a "00" spot. Now there were two chances to land on zero. This changed the house edge to 2 out of 38, or 5.26%. Most casinos have double-zero roulette nowadays.

    But now triple-zero roulette has just been introduced at Venetian, even though the double-zero games also remain. Triple-zero roulette has 0, 00, and 000 on the wheel. This means the house edge is now 3 out of 39, or 7.69%. This makes it one of the very worst pit games possible.

    How will triple-zero roulette do? Nobody knows, but I'm assuming it might work just fine. Sadly, roulette players tend to be going for the big "lucky" hit, and even if they are just doing an even-money bet such as red or black, they still tend to ignore the effect of the zeroes. However, it's possible players will rebel against this. Even the most casual roulette player understands that the zeros are bad, and seeing three of them instead of two may be unnerving enough to where they get up and go elsewhere. Not that double-zero is a great game (5.26% house edge is pretty brutal, too), but this is a bad sign.

    Slowly but surely, casinos around the US are realizing that the gambler they really want is the dumb/uninformed gambler, and they are quietly driving out both the advantage players and the low-house-edge "informed" gambler. We are seeing this trend in video poker, as well.

    Casinos used to be happy with ANY action, provided they had at least a small edge. Not anymore. They seem to be looking to increase revenue against the weakest players, while allowing the strongest players to walk.
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  2. #2
    The first time I saw 6/5 blackjack in Las Vegas was when Bally's (I'm not sure Harrah's had taken it over at the time) plastered "6/5 Blackjack" on its marquee in big letters as if it were a good thing. I was horrified, and not just at the 6/5, but at the idea that they figured they could push it on their flagship sign. That meant, if they were correct, that the average person reading that sign was dumb as a rock or simply didn't care. There it stood in huge letters, "6/5 Blackjack," as if it were a good thing.

    My friend, Del, giving a tour to a sociologist friend who had not previously been to Las Vegas, stopped in an aisle a couple of years ago in the Bellagio. He pointed to one side of the aisle, where there was a single zero roulette table. He pointed to the other side of the aisle, where there was a double zero roulette table. Both tables had the same number of people. "I cannot believe," he told the sociologist, "how stupid people are." He said this pretty loudly, by the way. "Would you rather get kicked in the balls once?" he continued, gesturing at the single zero table, " or get kicked in the balls twice?" He pointed to the double zero table, "These people are idiots."

    That about sums things up. Now people have the opportunity to get kicked in the balls three times, or possibly twice in the balls and once in the teeth.

  3. #3
    There was talk about "Venetian Roulette" being trademarked and this must be it. Are there in fact 36 numbers in addition to the zeroes?

  4. #4
    Having tried to stir the pot a little on the only other active thread going which eventually fizzled after I coaxed some hatred out of the usual array of anonymous peepers, I'll see what I can do for this one.

    First Alan, Dan said "3 out of 39" so there must still be 36 numbers on the table. Next, what Venetian does to hurt players' odds with the roulette wheels won't change a thing there. Fat-headed people who claim to be table game "AP's" wouldn't be playing a 00 game to begin with anyway. At a place like that all it attracts are foreigners & queers (and many times, one in the same) so no harm no foul. Sheldon probably looked at his net worth and saw how Obama has been shrinking it to give more inner city blacks more handouts in order that they are able to keep hanging out on city corners, so he took matters into his own hands.

    Have at it.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Having tried to stir the pot a little on the only other active thread going which eventually fizzled after I coaxed some hatred out of the usual array of anonymous peepers, I'll see what I can do for this one.

    First Alan, Dan said "3 out of 39" so there must still be 36 numbers on the table. Next, what Venetian does to hurt players' odds with the roulette wheels won't change a thing there. Fat-headed people who claim to be table game "AP's" wouldn't be playing a 00 game to begin with anyway. At a place like that all it attracts are foreigners & queers (and many times, one in the same) so no harm no foul. Sheldon probably looked at his net worth and saw how Obama has been shrinking it to give more inner city blacks more handouts in order that they are able to keep hanging out on city corners, so he took matters into his own hands.

    Have at it.
    Eh, I've seen much better pot stirring from you. You really tried to force this one, it seems.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Eh, I've seen much better pot stirring from you. You really tried to force this one, it seems.
    Yeah, it lacks the usual references to dead spouses and magical math. Kind of boring.

  7. #7
    I agree. Rob mailed it in this time. Just dropped a token reference to "foreigners and queers" and some quip about inner city blacks.

    BORING

    Anyway, Rob, I never said APs play that 00 game. They don't. APs don't even play the 0 game, unless there's some sort of additional advantage play attached to it.

    The point of my thread was to indicate how quickly Vegas is changing.

    APs used to be the only enemy of the casinos.

    Now casinos have decided that knowledgeable -EV players are also their enemy, as they aren't generating enough profit for the casino, especially after handing out comps.

    The 2010s are rapidly becoming the Decade of the Ploppies, and I foresee it only getting worse.

    Conversations with ploppy friends of mine only verify that the casinos are actually onto something.

    Me: "Why are you playing 6:5 blackjack? That's a horrible game!"

    Ploppy #1: "Because I get lucky at this casino. I play the 3:2 game at Bellagio and just get killed every time."



    Me: "That video poker paytable is awful. You shouldn't be playing that game."

    Ploppy #2: "I don't really care about the paytable. I'm just going for quad aces with a kicker, and I got it twice last month!"



    Me: "The rake on that $1/$2 poker game is $5 per hand. That's extremely difficult to beat in the long term, even for a great player."

    Ploppy #3: "Of course I can beat that! You have no idea how bad these players are!"




    Sad.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Next, what Venetian does to hurt players' odds with the roulette wheels won't change a thing there. Fat-headed people who claim to be table game "AP's" wouldn't be playing a 00 game to begin with anyway. At a place like that all it attracts are foreigners & queers (and many times, one in the same) so no harm no foul.
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I choose to play at the Venetian instead of the Gold Coast, I'm playing the best pay tables I can find for the games in my strategy. If the Gold Coast has better pay tables then that means absolutely nothing, simply because whatever happened during my play session at Venetian is real, and whatever "could have" occurred at Gold Coast is nothing but theory.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie View Post
    And he doesn't speak with a foreign accent. Just sayin.....

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by james40 View Post
    And he doesn't speak with a foreign accent. Just sayin.....
    Not that there's anything wrong with that/Rob....

    At least this settles the debate over "born this way." Rob says that he chooses to play at the Venetian. His genes don't compel him. So he's made a significant contribution to the nature/nurture debate.
    Last edited by redietz; 09-19-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie View Post
    Every time that jackass opens his mouth, he shoves his foot further down his throat.

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