Overcomped

[Dan Druff]

If Dan wants to call himself overcomped it's okay with me. I'm sorry I won't see him at the New Year's Eve party and event. I'll be there with the other non overcomped players.

I actually could go to the NYE Party with my friend who does the on-off play thing. That person got invited, and I could be their +1!

I won't be there for NYE this year, though.

Even if I was, I wouldn't be interested in attending the party, as I would be with my young son, who could not go. Besides, NYE parties with strangers never really thrilled me.

I guarantee your expected losses dwarf mine by a massive amount (I'm talking expected, because that's how CET comps, and it's silly to factor luck into whether it was "worth" earning comps.)

You can have your NYE parties and freeplay offers, and I will stick to redeeming far more in comps than my expected losses.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan if in reality they really don't want you there you must be a real problem player. What are you not telling us?

[Alan Mendelson]

Comps are supposed to be based on action, not wins or losses.

Comps can be based on many factors including coin in, losses, marketing decisions, lack of play, extra play and yes even wins. Cash back or bounce back is usually just a percentage of your action or coin in.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, hosts at Caesars use the phrase "Diamonds from Tunica" but they won't discuss it with the public. Sure there might be the term overcomped but it's probably a euphemism for telling a player they're not entitled to what they're asking for. In other words, they're a Diamond from Tunica.

Frankly after you said in the other thread when you said they really don't want you back it makes me think you really are a problem player and yes they probably don't want you back. Now I think there is something else you're not telling us. I can only wonder what it might be?

[Dan Druff]

Dan if in reality they really don't want you there you must be a real problem player. What are you not telling us?

Hosts don't want me there. They make zero commission off of me, due to my overcomped status.

The rest of CET doesn't give a crap if I come or don't come.

I am not a problem player. Other than complaining about real customer service fails (which happen more on the hotel side than the casino side), I do not make any waves.

[Dan Druff]

Dan, hosts at Caesars use the phrase "Diamonds from Tunica" but they won't discuss it with the public. Sure there might be the term overcomped but it's probably a euphemism for telling a player they're not entitled to what they're asking for. In other words, they're a Diamond from Tunica.

Frankly after you said in the other thread when you said they really don't want you back it makes me think you really are a problem player and yes they probably don't want you back. Now I think there is something else you're not telling us. I can only wonder what it might be?

As I explained in the other thread, I am not a problem player, other than using Seven Stars to get way overcomped.

I am not a "Diamonds from Tunica" type, because I know exactly what to expect and not expect. I do not ask hosts to give me anything, unless it is required to go through them for something.

You still aren't understanding the situation, apparently, unless you're just trolling me.

[Alan Mendelson]

Hosts don't want me there. They make zero commission off of me, due to my overcomped status.

I didn't know that your comp level has any bearing on hosts? I thought hosts earn a bonus based on your play. Am I wrong about that?

I was also wondering about your mega reward credit balance that you told us about. I never quite understood how a player who had the minimal amounts of tier points earned during the year to obtain 7 Stars status which included using tier credit bonus points, happened to also have a big balance of reward credits? My undertanding is that there are no bonuses for reward credits, so when you play 5,000 tier points to get a 10,000 tier point bonus, you only earned 5,000 RCs and there is no bonus for the RCs.

So where did the huge balance of RCs come from, since you always minimized your play to get your "overcomped" status?

[seemoreroyals]

I know Dan can speak for himself but I did want to let others know that the term overcomped is real and can be achieved for a variety of reasons. In our case it happened to us several years ago at our home property in Bossier City. With us it had nothing to do with inconsistent play but we had about a 3 or 4 month period of time that we invited friends and family members to our casino and our host gave us free rooms, free concert tickets, and free extra room credit to compensate for the extra guests. We thought nothing of it at the time. For the first month or so after this time our free play offers and other mailers remained about the same and then all of a sudden we quit getting offers. We contacted them thinking somehow they had a mixup with our addresses. They said they would look into it but we never heard back.

We were still able to get free rooms through our host so on our next trip to Bossier City we paid a visit to our host's office to see if they could give us an idea what was going on because we were somewhat irked that we were not getting any freeplay. After about 30 minutes or so meeting with the director or marketing and her computer we were told that we were overcomped. That was the exact work she used. She said that there was nothing she could do but for us to be patient and that it would take a couple of months for our offers to go back to normal. To make a long story short that is exactly what happened.

Maybe overcomped needs its own thread as it is kind of taking over the discussion on this and the GGWU thread.

[coach belly]

I do not ask hosts to give me anything, unless it is required to go through them for something.

What were the circumstances that prompted a host (or hosts) to offer the information that you are overcomped?

[Alan Mendelson]

seemoreroyals so you abused the system and got cut off. It happens. This is a warning to everyone else who "double dips" and tries to get more than what they are "entitled to."

How you differ from Dan, is that he said he asked for nothing extra, did not deal with hosts, and says his "overcomped status" is the result of maximizing his 7 Stars benefits. That's very different from your situation, isn't it?

I think in your case you took too much. In Dan's case I think the issue is he didn't play enough. But the bottom line is you both got "no mailed" and had your offers stopped. Sounds like the same result to me.

[james40]

Hosts don't want me there. They make zero commission off of me, due to my overcomped status.

The rest of CET doesn't give a crap if I come or don't come.

I am not a problem player. Other than complaining about real customer service fails (which happen more on the hotel side than the casino side), I do not make any waves.

If CET has so little regard for you, why do you remain loyal?

[james40]

Ask your host if "overcomped" is a real term in the casino industry.

I don't see why you don't understand this.

Let's say a Seven Stars who earned their status playing the minimum in early 2015 has spent 400 comp days in CET hotel rooms since (this is possible), and hasn't wagered another penny.

Do you think he would be overcomped? Would he have used far more benefits than he earned?

Come on, Alan, stop being stubborn.

You may not want to be overcomped yourself, and you may not want to play like an AP, but at least admit that overcomping is a real thing, and that I am likely in that status.

This is getting tiresome.

You were spending and losing money throughout the year to gain 7 Star, CET was providing plenty of comps while you were spending and losing. At some point you curtailed your play after you attained 7 Star and the comps dried up. CET doesn't care about you now because you are not spending and losing. Go back to the spending pattern you displayed while "attaining" 7 Star and the comps come back. This does not seem like a mystery.

[Rob.Singer]

This is all total nonsense, and it's nonsense because Dan keeps saying what many, many other players say on public forums all the time--that they're slick enuf to outsmart the system so they can get more "freebies" than they deserve.

C'mon, no one ever is "overcomped" and no one is pulling the wool over casino eyes with their personal antics. Everything is pre-calculated, checked, and checked again when it comes to formulas and giving out stuff to loyal players. The only people who get "over & above" are those who casinos deem a good risk whenever these players disappear for a specific amount of time, so they send out very lucrative offers in an effort to get them back. And if the player is astute enuf not to fall into the casino trap by only taking what's being handed him or her on a silver platter and then walking (until the next time, if it ever happens again) then and only then can a player expect to label himself as having received more "comps" than he actually deserved.

"Overcomped" as in somehow "tricking" the comp system?Hogwash. It's simply being smart enuf to take maximum advantage of an offer--and not go around claiming how you've worked and weaseled your way into getting the "stupid people" from marketing to succumb to your demands in order to say you're "overcomped". Pure fantasy.

[james40]

Dan, hosts at Caesars use the phrase "Diamonds from Tunica" but they won't discuss it with the public. Sure there might be the term overcomped but it's probably a euphemism for telling a player they're not entitled to what they're asking for. In other words, they're a Diamond from Tunica.

Frankly after you said in the other thread when you said they really don't want you back it makes me think you really are a problem player and yes they probably don't want you back. Now I think there is something else you're not telling us. I can only wonder what it might be?

The 7 Star card is just a piece of plastic, your coin in dictates how the casino and the host is going to treat you. Put the coin in and you are royalty, short them on coin in and demand things because you carry a piece of plastic and you become a pain in the ass. The card a reflection of how much you spend, quit the spending and yes they don't care if you come back.

[Rob.Singer]

Generally speaking, people who are not welcomed back as customers are in fact problem people....aka, people with too many issues for their own good.

How many times has Dan painstakingly explained his phobia about being "overcharged" for some small item or being "mistreated or dissed" by someone of authority in person or on the phone....only to waste huge amounts of effort and spend days chasing his loss?

It isn't too difficult to see why these things keep happening to him. Some people have these type of annoying personalities--that's all it is. They go around always feeling entitled to getting special treatment, getting more than the other guy, and they live their life in "paranoid mode" always thinking that other people are doing to them what they take enormous pride in doing: taking advantage of others in some way, shape, or fashion.

So for Dan to persist in this fantasy world of being overcomped, it seems all too normal and it won't change. When someone lives a life totally based on conflict, you're gonna be fed a constant flow of this type of goofy stuff.

[jbjb]

Again, I agree with Rob. This "comped stuff" that you all get from CET, they (CET) get for free or next to nothing. Think of CET as the game show The Price is Right. Do you think all that stuff and money they give away is making them lose money? If you do you're completely wrong. That "stuff" is provided to them for NOTHING in return except for advertising commercials. It comes back to what I said before. You guys place way to much value on this stuff when in reality is basically worth nothing and CET paid NOTHING to give it to the player. Just because Amazon is selling it for such and such price doesn't make it worth that price.

[redietz]

That's a strange thing to say, jbjb. If something can be sold on ebay for a price, then that's what that something is worth. If I inherit something, it doesn't lack value just because I didn't pay for it per se.

Rob, I'm surprised at your view of casino management as omniscient, detail-oriented, and fluid so as to ensure no player can game them. I've been dealing with casinos just about as long as you and Alan, and probably in a more probing fashion, and I just do not see it. Casino management, especially with the entity that is CET, appears to be a disorganized cluster**** to me. They have what I would call a forced accretion organization -- they acquired pre-existing organizations with separate rules, regs, clientele, and managements, then tried to impose a system over top of what already existed while keeping whole chunks of previous managements, with separate styles and rules for customers, in place.

I can tell you for a fact that the race and sports end of the various CET properties not only are not organized, they will quote you completely different rules, regs, limits, and comp returns when you survey them. They are the opposite of some all-knowing data system. It doesn't surprise me that players can abide by the rules of CET and extract value from them by being extremely disciplined.

[redietz]

I probably didn't make my case strongly enough in the previous post. I believe what Dan is saying. I don't necessarily share his priorities and such, but I have little doubt he's extracting value.

Let me give you an example from my personal experience. I am ahead at Boyd properties lifetime. That's more than 30 years of gambling. According to Rob, they should have cut off all comps ages ago. But they don't. They want me to come in. I'm not costing them much, and maybe I'll lose. Maybe I'll change games. Maybe I'll introduce other players. It doesn't hurt them to give me meals and rooms and tournaments and other stuff. As jbjb said, it costs them next to nothing. On some low level, it could be said I'm gaming their system. Personally, I don't think of it that way and never really have. I'm gambling. They are giving me stuff. That's the way it's supposed to work, from my perspective.

Dan's doing the same thing on a larger scale with CET. He isn't killing them by extracting 100 free room nights and 50 meals and a handful of trips. He uses those things, so they have value to him. The individual hosts, who get graded on what they give out versus take in, hate him. Good for him. But CET isn't going to change their melded, constantly changing rules and regs just to shut Dan down. It would be like performing major surgery to remove a splinter. So Dan gets to extract value from them.

Not that unbelievable. Not that complicated.

[jbjb]

That's a strange thing to say, jbjb. If something can be sold on ebay for a price, then that's what that something is worth. If I inherit something, it doesn't lack value just because I didn't pay for it per se.

Understandable, but to me it's value is the cash I get for it if "I" sell it. Not what's I may pay for it. We over pay for just about every purchase we make from food in a grocery store to cars to home essentials.

Casino freebies are just promotional products provided to them for nothing. So they're not losing a dime by pawning them off on the player.

[Alan Mendelson]

If Dan is happy with his offers and with whatever he's getting that's all that matters.

But what I am questioning is how he is twisting his lack of play and how he has been no-mailed into his belief that he is overcomped.

As soon as he starts playing again, the comps will come back. (Well, not immediately, because we know it takes a couple of months for the computer program to kick in.)

The most important point for everyone to remember -- and I am addressing the general public that reads this -- comps are not designed to make you, the player, whole after a loss. Comps are designed only to return a small percentage of what the casino expects you to lose playing whatever games you lose. The ONLY WAY to come out ahead in the "comps game" is to actually win in the casino AND collect the comps you are entitled to.

This means that the only way to truly be OVERCOMPED is to actually have a profit in the casino AND collecting the comps you are offered. If you lost in the casino, you can't be overcomped. Ever. Period.