Casino dreams

[Alan Mendelson]

I never had a dream about a casino -- or anything casino related -- until last night.

My dream was that I was home and going thru my mail and there was an envelope from Caesars. The envelope was like those from Caesars that contain the W2Gs they send to you a week or so after a visit along with a letter that says thanks for your recent visit, blah blah blah.

But in my dream there wasn't a W2G in the envelope... I opened the envelope and there was a check with a letter inside. The letter said:

"Thank you for your recent visit to Caesars Palace. Here is the jackpot money you failed to pick up."

The check was for the amount equal to hitting the ALL in craps with $25 on each position.

Nice dream.

[arcimede$]

Maybe it is a precognition dream.

[redietz]

I have Las Vegas dreams, but never anything that specific. That's pretty damn specific.

[FABismonte]

Hi Alan:

I know it was a dream but just for my own information I have a question. If you win All, Tall Small with $25 in each position, do you get a W-2G? I only hit an all with $5 in each position and just got handed the chips without any accompanying paper work. I wonder if the amount you bet triggers a W-2 G.

FAB

[RS__]

If I remember correctly, a W2G is triggered on table games if the payout exceeds both 300:1 odds and $500.

[Alan Mendelson]

There is no W2G for the Small, Tall, All bets. I've seen players hit the ALL with $100 in each position and they didn't get a W2G. In each position, $100 pays:

$3500 on Small and Tall, $17,500 on the ALL. Total payoff is $24,500.

I've hit the ALL with $25 on each more than a dozen times (mostly at Bellagio but 5 times at Caesars) and never got a W2G.

There is a W2G for hitting the 6-point FireBet. I got one with $5 bet (paid $4,995) and if you have $10 bet there is a requirement that $2500 is automatically withheld.

[RoeIncarnate]

Supposedly the ALL payout is being dropped to 150. Anyone seen this yet?

[Alan Mendelson]

Supposedly the ALL payout is being dropped to 150. Anyone seen this yet?

Where?

Keep in mind that different casinos had different payouts on the Fire Bet and it's possible one casino might alter the Small Tall All payouts but others wouldn't.

[RS__]

IIRC, there was a post on WOV about it, being at the Wynn.

[Alan Mendelson]

IIRC, there was a post on WOV about it, being at the Wynn.

The Wynn also has only double odds on craps, so if they downgraded the pays on the STA it wouldn't surprise me.

[RS__]

A very reliable source has confirmed with me Caesars Palace is still the regular payout on the all (176 I reckon).

[Alan Mendelson]

A very reliable source has confirmed with me Caesars Palace is still the regular payout on the all (176 I reckon).

I think all casinos gladly give info about their games via a phone call to the appropriate pit. If this is an issue for anyone I suggest you phone ahead.

[redietz]

I think all casinos gladly give info about their games via a phone call to the appropriate pit. If this is an issue for anyone I suggest you phone ahead.

One of the issues I have with sports books these days is that you can't get a clear definition of limits, even in person, without going through the equivalent of an NSA check. Over the phone, they may say something, but you can't trust the reliability. And calling from out-of-state, they won't even connect you directly with the sports book due to the law -- you have to play phone tag through an operator intermediary after they ask the sports book.

So my question is, if you call regarding limits on table games, do casinos usually give you an accurate, reliable answer if you call the pit? Or have there been instances where you feel as if they misreport the table limits available when you call?

[Alan Mendelson]

So my question is, if you call regarding limits on table games, do casinos usually give you an accurate, reliable answer if you call the pit? Or have there been instances where you feel as if they misreport the table limits available when you call?

I have NO experience with sports books.

I have had NO problem calling any craps pit or "slot department" at any casino to check on games, progressives, minimums, etc. I never identified myself as being with the media, either. I have never been given incorrect information and some casinos have gone out of their way to transfer me to several people to be sure I was getting the correct info... such as with current progressives.

With that said, I can understand problems with calling sports books. Is it true that you can't even use a cell phone in the sports book area?

[redietz]

I have NO experience with sports books.

I have had NO problem calling any craps pit or "slot department" at any casino to check on games, progressives, minimums, etc. I never identified myself as being with the media, either. I have never been given incorrect information and some casinos have gone out of their way to transfer me to several people to be sure I was getting the correct info... such as with current progressives.

With that said, I can understand problems with calling sports books. Is it true that you can't even use a cell phone in the sports book area?

That was the old rule. They've kind of done away with that most places as it is unenforceable. What they are trying to prevent is people shopping for lines while they are in the sports book, so if you are in Caesars Palace, for example, and the Redskins are +7, you can check elsewhere via your phone and see if either offshores have better numbers or your buddy down at MGM has a better number. There's really no way to prevent this stuff any more, so most don't try.

I remember, way back when, the runners for the local sports gamblers would (long before there was bluetooth and before there was internet, actually) wear earpieces they tried to keep inconspicuous so they could be in touch with home base or colleagues in other sports books.

[regnis]

I haven't seen the cell phone ban enforced for awhile. You can do the same thing with ipads etc. so it really can't be enforced.

I have not been able to get a straight answer about comp rates for horse players in casino race books for years. The only way to do it is to introduce yourself (befriend if you can), tell him how much your range of action will be, and negotiate the comp rate. Otherwise, it is next to nothing and has no published rate. I usually sit in the race book and bet on my ipad now because I do get the biggest rebates offered in the industry through legal on-line books. You can get bigger rebates with off-shore and/or illegal books where the action is not commingled with the pari-mutuel pool. They are actually bookies and limit the pay-outs.

[Alan Mendelson]

I have not been able to get a straight answer about comp rates for horse players in casino race books for years.

I'm afraid that comp rates for table game players are like those for sports bettors: they are mysterious as well as arbitrary and capricious and to finish the quote from the law "and unreasonable" at times.

[redietz]

Regnis,

I'll hit up the girlfriend for her report on horse racing comp rates. I think she got a reasonably solid answer from Boyd. I think WestGate gives a comp answer that is somewhat solid, but I will check. I'm guessing for horses it's $1 for $50 wagered, but I'll verify. For sports, I think it's fallen to $1 for somewhere between $200 and $300. I bet a bundle there to set up middles regarding my Super Bowl offshore contest winnings last season, but I haven't used the comps, so I don't know exactly what they gave me. I know it was less than $1 for $200, but I'll check that next month when I get out there.

Man, I remember when sports comps were the same as race comps. As Archie Bunker sang, those were the days.

[redietz]

I'm afraid that comp rates for table game players are like those for sports bettors: they are mysterious as well as arbitrary and capricious and to finish the quote from the law "and unreasonable" at times.

My craps playing friends say the same thing. The same action can get you very different things, depending on the host, at the same property. And action that got them top rating at Revel in AC gets them considerably less, without the right host, in LV at a CET property. My suspicion is that Revel used to X-ray their financial profiles more than CET.

[Alan Mendelson]

My craps playing friends say the same thing. The same action can get you very different things,

It's not the host -- it's the floor person who enters your rating in the computer. Once the average bet and time at table (and in some cases type of bet) are entered into the system the "computer program" figures out your comps. But if the floor person doesn't rate you properly the "computer program" will give you the comps based on whatever the floor person entered.

I told about the time I started playing craps with $25 on the passline and a $5 horn high ace deuce -- and the floorman left the table after my initial bet. I played for the next couple of hours and my average bet (after the floor person left) was about my usual $235. But when I checked with my host, the floor person entered me for 2 hours at $40 average bet. It was a per diem floor person and it was too late to change it and my host could not change it. Lesson learned: always ask about the rating when leaving the table.

On my last trip to Vegas I was playing at a $25 table with my usual average of $235 -- and after four hours my comps earned were only $64. I know this because I checked the dollar value of the comps at a VP machine before and after I played craps. I am going to guess that there were about 100 rolls per hour, two hours, so 200 rolls with an average $235. And that earned $64 in comps? That wouldnt even pay for ONE person at Nobu.