lack of topics, too few members

[Alan Mendelson]

It is a myth perpetrated by Rob that AP's figure comp into the edge. The one exception might be Dan.

Since when does Bob Dancer NOT figure comps and promotions into his "edge"? I read his articles all the time.

[jbjb]

If it's machine play, I don't count things that aren't guarantees

[mickeycrimm]

Since when does Bob Dancer NOT figure comps and promotions into his "edge"? I read his articles all the time.

Promotions are always figured into the play. Like quad promotions, drawings, cashback multipliers. But not mugs, hats, t-shirts, meals, hotel comp. You can't pay your bills with comp. You have to have an edge.

[Alan Mendelson]

You can't pay your bills with comp.

Careful. Dan uses those hotel comps and meal comps to keep him at the WSOP.

I've used hotel comps and meal comps to be in Vegas to shoot Infomercials (and no gambling, either).

[RS__]

Careful. Dan uses those hotel comps and meal comps to keep him at the WSOP.

I've used hotel comps and meal comps to be in Vegas to shoot Infomercials (and no gambling, either).

Yeah.....so what?

It's extraordinarily rare to find a play worth playing that doesn't have a monetary incentive (ie: you make money on it) to play. Ellis Island used to be good for playing for food comps (99% game with 1% CB, and small FP mailers).

Everyone does it differently, but I never consider the comps/food/etc. when determining how much something is worth and won't include it if I say it's worth $XXX/hour or $YYY/cycle.


There's nothing wrong (IMO) about playing for comps if it's a pretty good deal. I'm not saying go do $100k coin in so you can get a $500 comp or something stupid. If Dan finds the value of getting free rooms and the other attached benefits (small amount of food, 7* trip, free-play, etc.) worth the value of doing $500k coin in on 9/6 JOB, then go ahead.

Since when does Bob Dancer NOT figure comps and promotions into his "edge"? I read his articles all the time.

Much of what Bob Dancer does is simply not the right or best way to do something. I'm sure you've also read the article about him playing $1 10-play UX at Palms...to get something like a 0.2% advantage on like 35k coin in. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that's pretty f***** stupid. He once wrote giving up 0.01% is way too much to give up in value (which is $10 for every $100,000 coin in)....which is beyond absurd.

[Rob.Singer]

Once again, mickey tries to remind us of his high-rolling yesteryear in Nevada gambling lore which conveniently is neither verifiable or frankly, of much interest other than to laugh at. And that is mostly because of the hole in life he finds himself in today, where he keeps on trying to convince everyone with eyes how a broken down old dumbass with a knack for making up stories is leading a made up life of truly pathetic proportions.

Of course all VP "AP's" incorporate every one of their silly comps into their "playing with an edge" concocted calculations. Remember when Jean Scott famously applied value to some novelty toilet seat she got at the Orleans slot club? Remember when Dancer claimed the robe he walked off with from an MGM stay "calculated nicely" into his so-called edge for that stay? And how about when vp-ap extraordinaire Skip Hughes said he even adds his free drinks at the bar into the session's "edge"?

You see mickey, you can't just make up stuff about the way you picture vp-ap's to be in your fantasy world, then expect everyone to believe you know what you're saying. You and what you call your "road trips" to the keno parlours around Montana---it's all in your head, isn't it. If anything, you'll drive your beater (which is, quite literally, a symbol of your success) to bars close by the flop house you live in for the sole purpose of guzzling the alcohol, smoking those stupid cigarettes, and yacking it up with other local losers in a continuing attempt to try and feel like you "belong" to something....to ANYTHING.

Yes, vp-ap's add in tournament drawings, car and cruise and whatever giveaways etc. into their calculations of "edge" because they need to justify their crazy amount of boring play in their own minds. But naturally, none of those things are worth spit unless they win, and everybody knows that. And when they do luck out and win something or win cars like Dancer has and has constantly been adding in their values to his play sessions for years, do you think for one second that he went back over his "playing with an edge" records and re-calculated the sessions out to negative EV after losing much of that junk to Shirley in his divorce?

That's why the term "AP" is nothing but a state of mind. The only "advantage" associated with it is the flexibility to run the numbers any which way you want in order to justify all the losing in casinos and in life that goes on with these degenerate gamblers.

I'll bet there's more than just one or two of us here who REALLY only use actual results at the machines as a measure of our success or failure in that particular type of gambling. Tossing in fluff does nothing for a serious player. Going into a session pretending you're playing a game at a 5% edge or whatever just because the flavor theory of the day drew you in there, is totally foolish and meaningless. One can only tell if he or she played "with an edge" after the session is over and IF one has more money in hand then than they did when they started. It is all so very simple.

[mickeycrimm]

Rob, you tell everyone in the forums that I'm a broke ass bum with no income. Did you tell the IRS the same thing about me? What would be your point of reporting a broke ass bum to the IRS? Broke ass bums with no income don't owe taxes. Or are you telling people in the forums one thing but telling the IRS something quite different?

[mickeycrimm]

Careful. Dan uses those hotel comps and meal comps to keep him at the WSOP. I've used hotel comps and meal comps to be in Vegas to shoot Infomercials (and no gambling, either).

I understand what Dan is doing. Tournament poker players have expenses besides the entry fees. There's travel, meals, and lodging which is quite expensive to the average tournament pro. Dan uses 7 Stars to defray his costs on the tournament circuit. To me it's a very good plan.

I've done something similar in the past. Wendover was one of those places where there was no heat on homesteading. They had the IGT 20-coin $1 100% video blackjack all over the place. The comp meter ran at .8%. I could run $160 an hour in comp. I had to run about $400 a week in comp for the rooms, $350 a week in comp for the meals. I also spent comp on the Spa, cigarettes, haircuts, concert tickets. And if I just wanted to have a drink I would get a $100 voucher, take it to the lounge, and sit there getting drunker than a pig watching the lounge act and cruising for chicks.

Comp is great but it doesn't put anything in your wallet (there are some exceptions which I will explain later). I didn't have to spend that much time on the video blackjack to get all the comp. The rest of the time I spent in the poker room grinding out the dough----except, there were two quarter and one dollar vp progressives in the Wendover Nugget that I picked on when a number developed. How would you like to have a gig like that? Free room and board and a bunch of donkey's in the poker room.

Now, how can we convert comp to cash? There are examples. I had a buddy that worked the Silver Legacy in Reno playing 9/6/90 Jacks or Better Hundred Play for freeplay, comp, special events, mailers, free tournaments, etc. They had Tommy Bahama clothes in the Gift Shop which he bought with comp. He sold the stuff for half the sticker price to the lady that had the Tommy Bahama store down on Virginia Street.

[Rob.Singer]

Once again mickey's best route is to imagine what Dan does with his 7-Stars addiction is a thing of gambling giants. He wants to believe Dan "played with an edge of any sort" in order to be able to claim all his stays at the low-class CET properties to play poker were part of his "overall theoretical edge"--yet he completely ignores that Dan has said he's a big-time VP loser throughout his history of doing that. Doesn't matter to mickey though....it's the theory of it all that counts. Those phantom bucks can really add up in a mind based on total fantasy!

Mickey, the IRS has your real name & dumpy address and so do I, but I'm forbidden to release anything--esp. on a puny internet forum full of anonymous hacks. Investigations take time, and whatever's gonna happen will happen in due time. You might luck out and nothing will happen--who knows. But you can be sure that they are at this moment combing thru all your posts claiming your "six-figure incomes yearly etc." from playing in Montana, then checking that against your filed tax returns, if any. That's what I'd do. Your only positive is when and if the hammer comes down, you're so poor that your compromise offer to settle won't be that big of a deal.

Good luck.

[Alan Mendelson]

But you can be sure that they are at this moment combing thru all your posts claiming your "six-figure incomes yearly etc." from playing in Montana, then checking that against your filed tax returns, if any. That's what I'd do.

Really? Our tax dollars at work?

And what do you think the IRS people are going to think when they discover your claims about how you didn't pay taxes on your one-million dollars of net profits because you wrote off your groceries and dinners with your wife?

[mickeycrimm]

Mickey, the IRS has your real name & dumpy address and so do I, but I'm forbidden to release anything--esp. on a puny internet forum full of anonymous hacks. Investigations take time, and whatever's gonna happen will happen in due time. You might luck out and nothing will happen--who knows. But you can be sure that they are at this moment combing thru all your posts claiming your "six-figure incomes yearly etc." from playing in Montana, then checking that against your filed tax returns, if any. That's what I'd do. Your only positive is when and if the hammer comes down, you're so poor that your compromise offer to settle won't be that big of a deal.Good luck.

But you haven't answered my question, Rob. How can I be a broke ass bum on welfare but owe taxes? Broke ass bums don't owe taxes. And how could you possibly get my real name? Did you get it from your son-in-law who works in the Phoenix office of the IRS. I'm putting this up for the benefit of the IRS as they investigate my posts here. Was it legal for your son-in-law to give you my real name? How many other people are you and your son-in-law conspiring against?

And while we are at it why don't we talk about that million dollars you keep bragging you made at video poker but the IRS never seen a dime of it in taxes. I guarantee you, Rob, it's going to spew back on you if I ever hear anything from the IRS.

[blackhole]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any dumber here. Please tell me you guys with this IRS nonsense are joking.

[Rob.Singer]

What I'm showing you mickey is how your bragging about being a "winning" gambler is causing you to step into your own trap. The IRS will only use that against you since you don't file returns. They couldn't care less about whether you really win, don't really play, or play and lose. You claim a certain amount of gambling winnings, you don't report it, and when they come calling you won't be able to change your story since they've already read and copied the data.

I got your info from Wikileaks.

[mickeycrimm]

What I'm showing you mickey is how your bragging about being a "winning" gambler is causing you to step into your own trap. The IRS will only use that against you since you don't file returns. They couldn't care less about whether you really win, don't really play, or play and lose. You claim a certain amount of gambling winnings, you don't report it, and when they come calling you won't be able to change your story since they've already read and copied the data.

I got your info from Wikileaks.

But I have you as an expert witness that I'm a broke ass bum. What about that, Rob. That's what you've been telling everyone in these forums for years. So which one is it, Rob? Am I a broke ass bum telling lies or a successful gambler? You can' have it both ways.

And the first thing I'm going to do is press charges on your son in law. The 2nd thing I'm going to do is have you investigated for tax fraud.

[Alan Mendelson]

For the record: you are not required to file an income tax return if you have zero net income for the year even if you had wins from gambling. If you net-out zero for the year even if you received W2Gs you are not required to file a tax return. On the other hand if you have any net income you must report all casino wins even if you have a net loss from gambling.

[blackhole]

What I'm showing you mickey is how your bragging about being a "winning" gambler is causing you to step into your own trap. The IRS will only use that against you since you don't file returns. They couldn't care less about whether you really win, don't really play, or play and lose. You claim a certain amount of gambling winnings, you don't report it, and when they come calling you won't be able to change your story since they've already read and copied the data.

I got your info from Wikileaks.

Are you fn kidding me ROB with these kind of comments? "Copied data from a fn forum as evidence". Do you take everyone here for a complete fn fool? WIKILEAKS? Were the Russians in on this?

Whoever you claim to know at the IRS is going to end up getting bitched slap from his or her superiors, for even suggesting such a stupid fn idiotic recommendation. (if that person could even possibly be as dumb as your suggestions are)

[coach belly]

Are you fn kidding me ROB with these kind of comments?

Of course he is kidding, and you are getting played. He is busting balls, that's all...no big deal.

Geez, take it easy...you're getting all bent out of shape, and you're not even involved.

[mickeycrimm]

Belly, one has to be a ball buster in order to break balls. Rob is no ball buster. He's a weak little man.

[Biloxi Bill]

Of course he is kidding, and you are getting played. He is busting balls, that's all...no big deal.

Geez, take it easy...you're getting all bent out of shape, and you're not even involved.

Coach, are you sexually attracted to Rob?...Just curious

[Biloxi Bill]

I find it strange that Coach Sandusky knows Rob`s intent and meaning behind his posts....almost clairvoyant....But oh well, like Tammy Wynette sang, Stand By Your Man