Have you ever been up 25% of your bankroll?

[mickeycrimm]

What card is wild?

It's a single joker game.

[coach belly]

You're asking stupid questions and trying to get me to say 2 different things at the same time. I don't care much for this.

I'm not trying to get you to say anything, I'm just asking questions...you answer them any way you choose.

I understand why you are nervous about getting tripped up, that's because you don't always give straight answers.

a session is defined as a short period of play.

What constitutes a short period?

Sometimes it's a few minutes, sometimes it's a few hours, and even sometimes all day.

So a short period of play is all day? Is that the upper limit of short, or next will you be claiming that it could be some days,
several days, many days, weeks, months...or forever because it's really all one session with pauses?

I'm sure there are some people that have won every session and others who've lost every session.

Is there any way to win any session without quitting (ending the session) when ahead?

These people who've won every session...they quit all sessions when ahead...isn't that correct?

Are these people who have won or lost every session playing a +EV game, a -EV game, or does it not matter...it could be either?

[RS__]

I'm not trying to get you to say anything, I'm just asking questions...you answer them any way you choose.

I understand why you are nervous about getting tripped up, that's because you don't always give straight answers.

It's hard to give straight answers to vague questions.

So a short period of play is all day? Is that the upper limit of short, or next will you be claiming that it could be some days,
several days, many days, weeks, months...or forever because it's really all one session with pauses?

A session is however long it is from when you sit down to play until you leave. To say a session is always X minutes isn't accurate. Sometimes I play for a few minutes, sometimes I play for damn near the entire day. It depends what I'm playing. A RF progressive might be 1 hour or it might be 20 hours.

Is there any way to win any session without quitting (ending the session) when ahead?

Yes and no. If I know I'm going to get $500 in freeplay for my play, for instance, and the session ends at -$50, then it's both a win and a loss. I'd consider it a loss, since I actually lost. If I got FP immediately then the session wouldn't end until I played off the free play.

These people who've won every session...they quit all sessions when ahead...isn't that correct?

Are these people who have won or lost every session playing a +EV game, a -EV game, or does it not matter...it could be either?

Yeah, if you've won every session, then every session you've quit when ahead.

It could be either. I don't think there are very many of these people....and most likely they've only played a few sessions. For instance, every session of Pai Gow Tiles I've played, I've won. Every one. (Only played it 3 times though.) I did not have an advantage in PGT though.

[RS__]

RS operates in Las Vegas. He is not about to expose the location of his plays online so other AP's can jump on them. But I think I seen a picture RS posted of a $12,800 royal on a dollar 8/6 Jacks. The royal is not what impressed me. The game was at 103.7% when he hit the royal. Throw in the meter speed, my guess is the meter is at 1%+, and it's a super strong play.

I think DJ posted that picture...IIRC it was $11,800 or so when he hit it. But yeah, I was playing it with another AP as well (3 of us total). It's a good meter move indeed. I think we sat down around $7k RF. As great as 3%+ is on VP...it's really not that great, especially because it only exists periodically and can't play it non stop. If that was the base game, IMO, it'd be much better. I'd rather have a play I can make a lot of money on over time, not one that's only good for a short period of time. Honestly, it's probably one of the worst "legitimate" plays currently (aside from the stupid shit at Boyd or somewhere where they might give 1-2% back in gift cards occasionally......but I don't really consider that a legitimate play....no money to be made and a pretty small advantage, too). I'd rather spend my time on the 7-10%+ stuff.

[coach belly]

Yeah, if you've won every session, then every session you've quit when ahead.

It could be either. I don't think there are very many of these people....and most likely they've only played a few sessions. For instance, every session of Pai Gow Tiles I've played, I've won. Every one. (Only played it 3 times though.) I did not have an advantage in PGT though.

So if you hit a win goal and leave, your session has ended and you have won for that session.

And if you continue to do that for every session, then you will continue to win...regardless of whether the game is +EV or -EV, as players have won every session playing a -EV game.

So to assert that, if you play an -EV game then you will lose, is incorrect?

[RS__]

So if you hit a win goal and leave, your session has ended and you have won for that session.

And if you continue to do that for every session, then you will continue to win...regardless of whether the game is +EV or -EV, as players have won every session playing a -EV game.

So to assert that, if you play an -EV game then you will lose, is incorrect?

You are not guaranteed to lose, especially if you only play a few sessions. But, the more hands you play, the higher the probability becomes of being a net loser (doesn't matter what your strategy is, quit when ahead or whatever). Of course, some sessions don't ever provide the opportunity to leave when ahead (because the player is never ahead). Over time, there comes a point when it's highly unlikely the player be ahead (which is different for every game).

[Rob.Singer]

That's basically a very stupid statement, and all I can believe is coach has rattled he great RS__ into doing so.

There's no such thing as because you're ahead on a 99.2% game after your first session, then you can eventually expect to have that profit and more snatched away by "the math".

Anyone can figure out that if you won w/o extreme good luck today then you can win tomorrow. Who cares about and big deal that you're playing a theoretical 99% game vs. a 105% game! That doesn't at all mean a thing, esp. when you admit that any player at any machine at any time is doing nothing more than playing within a smidgen of the life of the machine. And just because AP's want to think the +EV machines have more of these "smidgens" that are positive than negative, they absolutely know those beliefs are false.

I'm thinking about holding a class on how to Wise Up.

[jbjb]

Anyone going to your class will only get more stupid!!

You're a jealous loser and pissed we've exposed your con.

[Rob.Singer]

You react just like the whiny liberals do.

waa....waa

[coach belly]

I'm thinking about holding a class on how to Wise Up.

I'm thinking that this is the class.

[jbjb]

Coach, you're just as much as a dumbfuck as con man Rob. If any of you jackfucks knew how to make money in a casino, you lazy fucks wouldn't be here asking questions.

[Rob.Singer]

Ha! And there you have it----the anonymous genius gets caught and exposed, and the result is he comes apart at the seams!
Must hurt double after watching his "AP pal" RS__ getting undressed.

So who's the pretend girlfriend, jbjb?

[Alan Mendelson]

Jbjb just one time show these guys some proof of your big winnings. Just once. Show them a photo. Or a W2G or a screen shot of a win/loss report. Or something that will make Rob shut up with envy. Just one.

[RS__]

Jbjb just one time show these guys some proof of your big winnings. Just once. Show them a photo. Or a W2G or a screen shot of a win/loss report. Or something that will make Rob shut up with envy. Just one.

You know how this works.

> Idiot asks for proof.
> Someone gives proof.
> Idiot says "that's not proof" or "how does that help me at all?" or something else.

[Alan Mendelson]

Please. I promise NOT to say "that's not proof." Just give us ONE thing.

[mickeycrimm]

Jbjb just one time show these guys some proof of your big winnings. Just once. Show them a photo. Or a W2G or a screen shot of a win/loss report. Or something that will make Rob shut up with envy. Just one.

It's in storage in New Mexico.

[Alan Mendelson]

Gee... Rob has posted lots of photos and then there were the reports in Gaming Today. Give Rob credit for that.

I would just like to see ONE, just ONE big win from the APs.

Just ONE.

[RS__]

Please. I promise NOT to say "that's not proof." Just give us ONE thing.

What's the point? If I or anyone else posts a picture, someone will say I took a picture of someone else's machine or I found it online. No I ain't posting a pic of a W2G (not that a W2G can't be faked anyway). Plus, even if a big hit is verified to be someone's, it doesn't mean they're a net winner, an AP, or anything else.


http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambl...21/#post574823


Talking about the pic I posted, not BBB's quoted pic. I mostly like that one because it was on a shitty paytable (8/5 DDB), but the play was very strong (22% advantage on $5 VP), plus -- it's AWAK. IIRC, the alternative was 9/5 TDB, and I didn't care for the significant increase in variance. If only I knew we'd hit AWAK twice and 2-4's w/a kicker several times.....if only....

[Ozzy]

Jbjb just one time show these guys some proof of your big winnings. Just once. Show them a photo. Or a W2G or a screen shot of a win/loss report. Or something that will make Rob shut up with envy. Just one.

Your many royals and deuces at the wizards forum will do JBJB.

[Alan Mendelson]

RS__ very nice wins but I am surprised you played those games. Those plays seemed to go against your AP creed.

You mentioned a 22% advantage on the $5 8/5 DDB video poker. Explain that please.