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Thread: $50k daily coin-in isn't enough to secure comp room at Harrah's Tahoe at 9/6 JoB

  1. #1
    I had an interesting discussion with a host today regarding Lake Tahoe.

    There is currently an unusual "wall of snow" hitting Tahoe (it's been snowing almost nonstop since New Years, and will continue through at least January 14th -- with as much as 5 feet coming down on Sunday alone!)

    So I had a thought...

    What if you're in Tahoe on a usual Seven Stars comped trip (4 nights) or an offer (3-5 nights), and you're snowed in?

    Provided you've been very actively playing, will Harrah's continue comping you rooms until you're ready to leave?

    So I posed this question to a host:

    If I am staying at Harrah's Tahoe for 5 nights, and run $50k coin-in per night at "video poker" (I didn't state 9/6 Jacks or Better, but my play history shows that), will that be enough to qualify me for a 6th comp night, provided that I continue playing $50k coin-in per day as I stay extra?

    So hypothetically:

    Let's say I book 5 comp nights from January 8-13, and my play goes like this:

    January 8: $50k coin-in
    January 9: $50k coin-in
    January 10: $50k coin-in
    January 11: $50k coin-in
    January 12: $50k coin-in

    Will I be able to stay January 13th comped?

    Shockingly, the answer was NO!

    "That play would not be enough", I was told, after first being given a lot of vague "It's too hard to tell" type answers. After pressing for a concrete answer, the host looked up my play from March 2015 (when I did exactly the above), and was told that such play would NOT qualify me (or anyone who hadn't "earned" prior comps) for a 6th comped night.
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  2. #2
    I believe the reason for this comes from the theoretical loss of $50k coin-in being $230 at 9/6 JoB.

    Keep in mind that you are rated higher on the theo anyway (I assume this is done because almost no one plays perfect), but I don''t believe it would be high enough to "pay" for the cost of a room there during the winter.
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  3. #3
    Help me out here. How many RCs do you theoretically earn with that 50k? That is more important than coin in.

  4. #4
    You earn 5000 RCs for each $50k coin in.

    But why does that matter here?
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    You earn 5000 RCs for each $50k coin in.

    But why does that matter here?
    Would you not have enough RC's to get the room without any out of pocket expense? I've done that in the past, they shut down the summit one afternoon as we were getting ready to leave, we had nothing going on the next day, so we booked a room for another night and paid with RC's on the way out.

  6. #6
    Dan's question puts the ridiculous tightness of CET into clear view. That is a lot of play, with a stunning answer. CET just wants players to become addicts and feed them cash.

  7. #7
    5000 RCs is $50.00 and that should answer the question why there are no comps. How much are rooms at this resort? There's your answer.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    5000 RCs is $50.00 and that should answer the question why there are no comps. How much are rooms at this resort? There's your answer.
    I'm a low roller and just tried a Saturday night reservation (the priciest), $278. So 5 days at 5,000 RC's a day will get you close to the cost. I'm assuming 7 star would get a much better price.

  9. #9
    The problem is that RCs have real cash value. Sure, there's some variance to that value, but I can trade in 125 RCs for $1 of freeplay, which on average can be converted to very close to real $. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but that's how it will break out.

    I refuse on principle to pay for rooms when I am putting in that kind of action.

    This would be understandable if I were staying and not playing, but if I put in $50k worth of coin-in each day for 5 days and can't get a 6th day comped, then something is very wrong with their system.

    Don't believe me? Go to any other hotel in Tahoe (except Harvey's obviously) and try the same amount of action. They will roll out the red carpet for you for as long as you want to stay.

    Alan, I'm still not understanding your point.

    Even if I were running the hotel, I would be glad to let anyone stay free if they ran $50k in VP (even 9/6 JoB) per day they're there, and even if they get a whopping $50 in RCs already. FYI, the RCs only give you back 0.10% of house edge, so that's not a huge factor.
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  10. #10
    Dan I don't what you played each day. But whatever you played on the "comped days" was also factored into those room comps. The question comes down to how much additional play would you give the casino to pay for the extra room day? My guess is they viewed your play as not being sufficient.

    How many times have you told us you are OVER COMPED? Well, you are OVER COMPED and they don't want to give you any more. How much more OVER COMPED do you want to be?

    Every gravy train runs out of track sometime.

  11. #11
    Dan,

    Sounds as if it may be time to trot out "Head-n-Shoulders."

    If you are in a long-term relationship, assign him/her beard status and switch over the playing to him/her. Or it's time Dan Druff #2, with a different social, should be born.

    Meanwhile, Dan Druff #1 can take a break and garner some mega-benefits when the casinos realize you are out of their action sphere of influence.

  12. #12
    That's ridiculous - unless he had some history with the managers, or they're sold out. There's no reason why they shouldn't give an active player a bed, it takes a while to earn those tier credits and it might take all day to earn it, and they refuse to keep the player in-house after that kind of session??

    It wasn't like he was asking for a 'nice room' or amenities etc. just to keep a housekeeper on the payroll for another 30 minutes, it's not very expensive for them.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by ccship View Post
    That's ridiculous - unless he had some history with the managers, or they're sold out. There's no reason why they shouldn't give an active player a bed, it takes a while to earn those tier credits and it might take all day to earn it, and they refuse to keep the player in-house after that kind of session??

    It wasn't like he was asking for a 'nice room' or amenities etc. just to keep a housekeeper on the payroll for another 30 minutes, it's not very expensive for them.
    THIS

    Aside from sold out days (of which I was not asking for), the cost to provide me a room is negligible.

    This is why hotel rooms are given out so freely to Seven Stars (for up to 4 days), yet other forms of comps are not.

    If a player is clearly at the property to run a lot of play -- in this case, $50k coin in per day at 9/6 JoB, they should be happy to let him stay for as long as the play continues, as the property will profit overall.

    This time it wasn't even a matter of me being overcomped. They would have done this to anyone who didn't already have comps built up from earlier.

    The message they got across was that $50k coin-in at 9/6 JoB was not enough to qualify for a comp room for a day.

    BTW, she told me something strange which I don't think I believe. She claimed that they consider "hours played", which seems nonsensical when it comes to machines.

    With machines, it's all about coin-in and ADT.

    She acknowledged that coin-in and ADT are important, but that win/loss and hours spent playing are also important.

    I stated that I could understand win/loss being a factor, but hours made absolutely zero sense. I then gave the following example:

    John plays slowly. He runs 200 hands per hour, so it takes him 10 hours to run $50,000 coin-in at a $5 video poker machine.

    Mike plays quickly. He plays the same machine, but plays 1000 hands per hour. He gets $50,000 coin-in to that machine in 2 hours.

    Both John and Mike ran the identical amount of money through the identical machine and game.

    I asked her, "Are you saying their comps would be different?"

    She insisted that John, who took 10 hours to do it, would be given more.

    I still don't believe that. I think she was confusing it with blackjack, where time played really is a big factor.
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  14. #14
    Dan, let's go back to the basic problem.

    You are already getting five nights comped. The question is should you get a sixth night comped?

    Perhaps it's as simple as this: the maximum comped stay is five nights. That's all. Perhaps this particular resort has its own rule?

    We do know that Caesars requires a break of several days (is it 3 or 5?) between comped offers. Maybe it's as simple as you had your five night maximum?

    As I mentioned, that $50K coin in was only worth $50 in comp dollars. Was that enough to pay for a room for an additional night?

    Frankly, if you played $50K per day, earning $50 in comp dollars each day, chances are the hotel LOST money on your 5-night visit.

  15. #15
    I'm not sure what you're talking about, Alan.

    They will not lose money on $50k coin-in earning $50 in RCs. The theoretical is $230 on that, and few players can run that many hands without making a few mistakes, so the real average loss is higher, even for a good player. Furthermore, the $50 in RCs earned cannot be converted directly to cash. They can ether be spent on property or converted into $40 freeplay.

    Yes I could have paid for a 6th night with the $250 in RCs I earned, but why should I? I could exchange the $250 RCs for $200 in freeplay if I wanted. Why should I waste that on a room that every other property would give me for free anyway? And what if I want/need a 7th night, and am still playing actively?

    I was NOT asking for guarantees, and I made that clear. I asked, "Can I get a 6th night contingent upon playing $50k coin-in per day for the first 5 days. and then playing it again for the 6th day." After getting a lot of "We will have to evaluate it then" type answers, I finally got an honest one, telling me that it "probably won't be enough" and I'd have to pay a rate.

    That's my problem. If you put in that much action -- even at 9/6 JoB, you should continue getting free nights for as long as you want to put in such action.

    It's not my RIGHT to get this, but they are being foolish not giving it.
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  16. #16
    Well, CET has never figured as a candidate for Mensa.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I'm not sure what you're talking about, Alan.

    They will not lose money on $50k coin-in earning $50 in RCs. The theoretical is $230 on that, and few players can run that many hands without making a few mistakes, so the real average loss is higher, even for a good player. Furthermore, the $50 in RCs earned cannot be converted directly to cash. They can ether be spent on property or converted into $40 freeplay.

    Yes I could have paid for a 6th night with the $250 in RCs I earned, but why should I? I could exchange the $250 RCs for $200 in freeplay if I wanted. Why should I waste that on a room that every other property would give me for free anyway? And what if I want/need a 7th night, and am still playing actively?

    I was NOT asking for guarantees, and I made that clear. I asked, "Can I get a 6th night contingent upon playing $50k coin-in per day for the first 5 days. and then playing it again for the 6th day." After getting a lot of "We will have to evaluate it then" type answers, I finally got an honest one, telling me that it "probably won't be enough" and I'd have to pay a rate.

    That's my problem. If you put in that much action -- even at 9/6 JoB, you should continue getting free nights for as long as you want to put in such action.

    It's not my RIGHT to get this, but they are being foolish not giving it.
    Well you did say you have been "overcomped". Sounds like CET took care of the problem.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    If you put in that much action -- even at 9/6 JoB, you should continue getting free nights for as long as you want to put in such action.
    Well, obviously they don't think you should keep getting free nights. And...

    Originally Posted by james40 View Post
    Well you did say you have been "overcomped". Sounds like CET took care of the problem.
    I have been in the Diamond/Seven Stars check in at Caesars when someone from Europe comes in and I overhear that they are staying for two weeks. I overheard nothing about comped nights.

    When I check in, the desk person always says something about the number of comped nights.

    I hate to bust your bubble, but earning 5,000 tier points in a day does not make you a high roller, and I don't think any of the Caesars properties IN A HIGH DEMAND PERIOD are going to roll out the red carpet for you. You mentioned the storm and this is the season for that resort.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I hate to bust your bubble, but earning 5,000 tier points in a day does not make you a high roller, and I don't think any of the Caesars properties IN A HIGH DEMAND PERIOD are going to roll out the red carpet for you. You mentioned the storm and this is the season for that resort.
    I agree with Alan. The 13th falls on a Friday and it is considered a weekend. Only the players who the casino feels that can generate the biggest losses will receive priority. Usually no one is around during the weekdays off season, perhaps plan to stay then?

    On the Wizard of Vegas forums recently, if anyone chooses or not to believe it on their own will, B. Dancer included how he was able to mitigate the coin-in requirements in 2016 (all of which is mentioned on past forum posts) stated

    Keep in mind that playing exactly $50K per day on the best machine available is a way to essentially dry up all of offers.
    http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambl...rs/#post565753

  20. #20
    Oops. My example involving the 13th was just arbitrary. I didn't look at those dates. In reality, I was asking for a 6th night which fell on Tuesday the 10th, which does not fall on a holiday or weekend.

    Regarding the $50k coin-in on the best machines "drying up offers", the answer is yes and no.

    Yes, some markets will kill (or severely minimize) offers to players who only stick to the very best machines, even if they run $50k coin-in per day. However, it's important to know the difference between offers and host comps.

    Offers are generated by the marketing computer. They perform deep analysis of your play. If it is discovered that you only stick to the lowest -EV machines in the joint, then it will (correctly) minimize your offers over time. Basically it realizes that you're of minimal value to them, and therefore they aren't going to roll out the red carpet for you.

    However, host comps are different. They do not analyze which machines you play, or whether or not you are likely a profitable customer for the casino. Instead, they stick to their simple metrics of ADT, and sometimes MDV (marketing daily value). If your numbers are good enough, they comp you. If your numbers are not good enough, they will not. Each property has its own standard as to what qualifies as "good enough". For some reason, Tahoe's standard is unreasonably high.

    The weird thing about CET is that they are known to be extremely liberal with handing out free nights -- but only up to 4-5 nights. So they are happy to hand out comps like candy to players likely to screw them and not play at all, yet they are incredibly tight when it comes to giving a 6th straight comped night to an active player! It just seems that CET has a bug up their ass when it comes to a 6th night.

    Want to stay at CET for 5 nights and not play a penny in their casino? No problem, here's your reservation!

    Want to stay for a 6th night after actively playing mid/high stakes VP for 5 straight days? No way! Get out! You're not profitable enough!

    It's a schizophrenic policy.

    I would respect this more from a company which is ALWAYS tight with free nights, but CET is the opposite of that.
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