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Thread: Caesars restaurant in Tahoe market didn't know if it took RCs at 2:1 or 1:1, manager created loud confrontation when I wanted answer

  1. #1
    So this was a strange situation...

    I went to a restaurant in the Tahoe market at one of the two CET properties there (Harrah's/Harvey's).

    I'm not naming the restaurant for certain reasons, but it's not really important at this point. (Edit: I named the restaurant later in the thread. It was Cabo Wabo.)

    When I visited this restaurant, I did not know whether it was CET-owned or privately owned. I also didn't know whether they accept RCs (reward credits) at 1:1 or 2:1.

    This, of course, is a VERY important thing to know, because 2:1 means that you're paying double for the meal.

    I decided that I would only eat at this place if they accepted RCs at 1:1. If they either didn't accept RCs or if it was 2:1, then I would decide to eat elsewhere.

    I walked in, and asked the hostess, "Do you accept RCs?"

    She quickly said "Yes."

    I then asked if it was 1:1 or 2:1, as this varies in the Tahoe market.

    She didn't know. Figuring this wasn't a good question for the hostess, I decided to just ask the server, and sat down at the table.

    The server approached. I asked her the same question. She was nice, but she also didn't know the answer. I could tell that the question itself even confused her. I asked if she could go get the manager, so I could get an answer, and she said okay.

    The manager approached. I asked her the same question: "Do you accept Rewards Credits at a 1:1 rate or 2:1?"

    She replied, "We don't determine that here. You'll have to ask Total Rewards how they are redeemed."




    Total Rewards does NOT determine this. They simply process the transaction, as directed by the restaurant.

    "Actually, that's not true," I replied. "The restaurant sets the exchange rate. Total Rewards doesn't decide this. So can you please find out if it's 1:1 or 2:1?"

    She looked very flustered. I could tell she didn't know the answer, and was too lazy to put in the effort to figure it out. I was shocked that the manager didn't know this (and didn't seem to want to find out for me!)

    "Well, I don't know. I don't have that information. You can try to use your Reward Credits and see what happens. But I can't guarantee anything," she replied.

    What?!

    Is she really telling me to gamble with the exchange rate, and just hope that my meal doesn't cost me double?

    I then came up with a possible compromise:

    "Since you don't know the exchange rate, can you just let me use my RCs and cut my bill in half if it ends up being 2:1, so either way I won't end up paying double?"

    "I'm sorry, I can't do that," she coldly replied. "As I said, you can try to use them, but if it's 2:1, I can't make any adjustments. It's up to you."

    I was getting really frustrated. The restaurant is supposed to know this! This would be like opening a menu and seeing two prices on each item. For example, if for a steak it said "$30 or $60 -- we'll tell you after you order it and eat it!"

    Totally unprofessional and non-standard for the restaurant to accept RCs and no one (not even the manager) being aware of the exchange rate!

    I then said, "I'm surprised the manager doesn't know the exchange rate. Every restaurant taking RCs is supposed to be aware of this. Can you go find this out for me? It's very important. I don't want to just order and find out at the end that my meal costs double."

    Her phony smile finally disappeared.

    "First off, I'm just the assistant manager. The manager isn't here tonight. But okay, I'll go research this for you," she said. And then in a much louder tone of voice, "But I'd really appreciate if you don't tell me how to do my job!"

    She turned around and walked away. I looked around and all of the eyes in the restaurant were on me. I looked like a jerk. They only heard that last part where she scolded me.

    Here I was, the middle-aged guy, and I just made the pretty, late-20s manager almost cry. I must have been an awful ogre, and I could see on the looks of the face of the patrons that they were looking at me with disdain, not having heard any other part of the conversation.

    It was highly embarrassing.

    I decided at this point that I didn't feel comfortable eating at this place, for obvious reasons. I stood up and walked out.

    As I walked past Total Rewards on the way to my room, I stopped by and told them the story.

    "That's a Caesars-owned restaurant", I was told by the employee at Total Rewards. "That means it's 1:1. I'm shocked that they didn't know that down there. They're supposed to."

    At this point, I was even angrier. How could the manager not have known that it was a Caesars-owned restaurant, and that therefore it's always 1:1 RC redemption? Even I would have known that, had I known it was Caesars-owned.

    I was also still seething from the way I was treated down there. I had a legitimate question. I needed to know the answer prior to ordering. Why was I treated like such a jerk for asking?

    I went back down and decided to give the assistant manager a piece of my mind. I also wanted to know the name of the actual manager so I could report this the next day.

    At first she refused to come out and speak with me, but I sent the message back there that I would include that in my report, as well. Finally, she came out.

    "Okay, I found the answer for you," she said. "It's 2:1 for Gold members, 1.75:1 for Platinum members, and 1.25 for Diamond and Seven Stars members", she explained.

    Huh?!

    Those are (close to) the exchange rates for RCs for freeplay. Restaurants at Caesars NEVER tie your players club tier to your exchange rate in paying for food.

    But it was a moot point. I wasn't going to eat there anyway.

    I told her that she was incorrect, but that my bigger issue was how I was treated earlier.

    "Why did you yell at me earlier and make everyone in the restaurant stare at me?", I asked.

    She responded that she felt "attacked" by me.

    I asked her what I did to "attack" her. I asked her to tell me a single thing I said that was attacking.

    "I'm not answering that," she said. "I'm calling security now."

    "Security?!", I replied. "Why do you need security? I'm not causing any trouble here. I just came down to ask you the manager's name, and to tell you that I didn't appreciate how I was treated. Then I'm leaving anyway."

    "And besides," I explained, "As a manager, you are never supposed to yell at or scold customers, even if you don't like them. That's part of working in a customer service management position. If you can't control yourself, you shouldn't be working with customers, and you definitely shouldn't be managing."

    She continued defending her "right" to have scolded me, and then gave me the manager's card. I walked out. Again, I saw all the eyeballs of the patrons fixed upon me.

    Turned out the general manager did not come in the next day. She had pneumonia.

    She passed along my message to her boss, the Food and Beverage manager for the Tahoe market.

    He called me and asked for the story. After hearing it, combined with what he was already told by the assistant manager (whom he had already questioned), he told me the following:

    - I was 100% in the right.

    - The exchange rate was indeed 1:1, and everyone at the restaurant was supposed to know it.

    - In the case that they didn't know it, the manager was authorized and supposed to make it right for the customer -- such as the compromise I suggested (running it and cutting the bill in half if it turned out to be 2:1). Her refusal to do so was a big mistake.

    - It was completely unacceptable that she scolded/yelled at me, even if she had been in the right (which she wasn't).

    - He was on property when this all occurred. She was supposed to call him with questions like these, and did not for whatever reason, which was another violation.

    - She was supposed to immediately report to him any kind of altercation with an unhappy customer. "I'm very unhappy that I had to find this out through your phone call," he said.

    He said that he would be calling a meeting with all employees, reiterating the 1:1 exchange rate thing, and making it clear how they are supposed to treat customers.

    I didn't ask him for anything, but he offered me a $100 food and beverage credit for my trouble, which I accepted, and thanked him for it.


    Can you believe all of this happened just because I wanted to know whether it was 1:1 or 2:1 RCs?

    What would you have done in my spot?
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    Complete incompetence by the assistant manager..I would have done the exact same thing in your shoes.What bothers me the most about situations like these, are these female employees who use the Call SECURITY card when there in the wrong..I'm a large man 6-3 240, who's by no means is a violent person,but will stand my ground verbally,if I'm in the right..(such as this scenario)..I truly believe big men with deep voices are at a huge disadvantage,when it comes to verbal debates with females in public...They will use the damsel in distress card any chance they have,to flip things in there favor...I'm saying this because I believe this is what could have happen to Druff in this particular situation..She made him look like a complete ass in front of everyone and threatened to call security..That was not worth 100$ food,but at least u got compensated for your ordeal.

  3. #3
    I didn't know that some restaurants accept RCs at 2:1. Is that only in Tahoe? Does it happen anywhere in Vegas?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I didn't know that some restaurants accept RCs at 2:1. Is that only in Tahoe? Does it happen anywhere in Vegas?
    Not in Vegas. They either accept them at 1:1 or not at all.

    In Tahoe, I keep hearing different stories. I was told that Hard Rock does NOT accept RCs, but you can charge to your room and then pay it off using RCs at 2:1. Not sure if that's actually true.

    Was told at the front desk that Straw Hat was 2:1, but I went there and asked, and they told me 1:1. It was really expensive though (like $26 for a large pizza), so I never ate there.

    I know for sure that some restaurants in the AC market accept RCs at 2:1. Ruth's Chris kept going back and forth between 1:1 and 2:1, as mentioned frequently in Seven Stars Insider.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Complete incompetence by the assistant manager..I would have done the exact same thing in your shoes.What bothers me the most about situations like these, are these female employees who use the Call SECURITY card when there in the wrong..I'm a large man 6-3 240, who's by no means is a violent person,but will stand my ground verbally,if I'm in the right..(such as this scenario)..I truly believe big men with deep voices are at a huge disadvantage,when it comes to verbal debates with females in public...They will use the damsel in distress card any chance they have,to flip things in there favor...I'm saying this because I believe this is what could have happen to Druff in this particular situation..She made him look like a complete ass in front of everyone and threatened to call security..That was not worth 100$ food,but at least u got compensated for your ordeal.
    Well I don't have a deep voice, but I am tall (6'2").

    And compared to this small girl in her late 20s, clearly she was the sympathetic character who evoked sympathy when she yelled at me that I shouldn't tell her how to manage.

    I'm glad that the F&B manager was a very sensible guy, and was as pissed about this situation as I was. I was afraid that they were just going to dismiss me as a problem customer, but he was noticeably unhappy with the way they handled everything.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not in Vegas. They either accept them at 1:1 or not at all.

    In Tahoe, I keep hearing different stories. I was told that Hard Rock does NOT accept RCs, but you can charge to your room and then pay it off using RCs at 2:1. Not sure if that's actually true.

    Was told at the front desk that Straw Hat was 2:1, but I went there and asked, and they told me 1:1. It was really expensive though (like $26 for a large pizza), so I never ate there.

    I know for sure that some restaurants in the AC market accept RCs at 2:1. Ruth's Chris kept going back and forth between 1:1 and 2:1, as mentioned frequently in Seven Stars Insider.
    That's not completely accurate. There may be others but Seersuckers at Caesars is 2:1.

    This is a good link to bookmark:

    https://www.totalrewards.com/content...-location.html

    It looks like there are no 2:1 outlets in Reno/Tahoe. They are all 1:1
    Last edited by njdiceplayer; 01-29-2017 at 08:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not in Vegas. They either accept them at 1:1 or not at all.

    In Tahoe, I keep hearing different stories. I was told that Hard Rock does NOT accept RCs, but you can charge to your room and then pay it off using RCs at 2:1. Not sure if that's actually true.

    Was told at the front desk that Straw Hat was 2:1, but I went there and asked, and they told me 1:1. It was really expensive though (like $26 for a large pizza), so I never ate there.

    I know for sure that some restaurants in the AC market accept RCs at 2:1. Ruth's Chris kept going back and forth between 1:1 and 2:1, as mentioned frequently in Seven Stars Insider.
    Not true about Vegas, here's a link showing all the locations that do/don't take RC's. Some are 1/1, others 1.5/1 and 2/1.

    https://www.totalrewards.com/content...-location.html

    "Additional restrictions may apply. Outlets subject to change at any time."

    Also, I would have been stunned watching some middle aged guy brow-beating an employee over a few bucks. Jesus man, you just dropped a wad running 150K points through a VP machine to make 7star and you lose your mind over 2/1 vs 1/1 RC's? What's next? Going to the mat over an expired 2 for 1 buffet coupon?

    Either your losses were/are a lot more than you are letting on, or you're thinking that your play at CET properties allow you to be abusive to employees. I've heard stories that poker players can be outright assholes, this kind of confirms it.

  8. #8
    I had dinner at Searsucker once and charged it to my room. I had no idea it wasn't 1:1 for RCs. I had no idea.

    James, I can't comment on the discussion between Dan and the employee because I wasn't there. I would expect that all employees could answer the question about exchange rates.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by james40 View Post
    Not true about Vegas, here's a link showing all the locations that do/don't take RC's. Some are 1/1, others 1.5/1 and 2/1.

    https://www.totalrewards.com/content...-location.html

    "Additional restrictions may apply. Outlets subject to change at any time."

    Also, I would have been stunned watching some middle aged guy brow-beating an employee over a few bucks. Jesus man, you just dropped a wad running 150K points through a VP machine to make 7star and you lose your mind over 2/1 vs 1/1 RC's? What's next? Going to the mat over an expired 2 for 1 buffet coupon?

    Either your losses were/are a lot more than you are letting on, or you're thinking that your play at CET properties allow you to be abusive to employees. I've heard stories that poker players can be outright assholes, this kind of confirms it.
    What point are you trying to make here?

    That somehow losing money gambling means I shouldn't be allowed to know the cost of my meal in restaurants before I order?

    I wasn't "abusing" anyone.

    I wanted to know how much my meal would cost. The restaurant employees were supposed to know this.

    When I wouldn't accept "Just try it and see if it charges you double, and if it does, tough luck on you" as an answer, she got abusive with ME, yelling at me in front of all the other customers there.

    I had every right and expectation to know the price of the meal I was about to eat.

    This was simply a case of "customer wants to know answer to something important, employee doesn't know, customer still says he needs answer, employee lashes out at customer".

    I even offered a compromise (that she fix my bill if it ends up as 2:1), and she refused.

    Would you eat at a restaurant where the manager told you that you might be charged double at the end, and you'll just have to wait and see? I bet you wouldn't.

    Also, the boss of all the CET Tahoe restaurants already agreed I was 100% in the right. It wasn't one of those situations where he told me what I wanted to hear so I would keep gambling. He listed to me all the things that were done wrong, told me he would be calling a meeting and making sure this never happened again, and offered me a $100 food credit. So clearly this was a problem on their end.

    But I'll tell ya what. If you want to cover the difference every time a restaurant won't tell me the price of my meal (or any other situation similar to this), I'll be glad to drop the matter and send the bill to you. Let me know if interested.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I had dinner at Searsucker once and charged it to my room. I had no idea it wasn't 1:1 for RCs. I had no idea.

    James, I can't comment on the discussion between Dan and the employee because I wasn't there. I would expect that all employees could answer the question about exchange rates.
    I had no idea that Searsucker (or any Vegas restaurants) charged more than 1:1 RCs.

    I've never eaten at Searsucker, but I probably won't now that I know this.

    It must be privately owned AND not want to take whatever compensation CET gives them when RCs are redeemed.

    If you recall, Central (the Caesars 24-hour cafe) took RCs despite being independently owned, and they took them at 1:1. However, they did not take any kind of food comp.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by njdiceplayer View Post
    That's not completely accurate. There may be others but Seersuckers at Caesars is 2:1.

    This is a good link to bookmark:

    https://www.totalrewards.com/content...-location.html

    It looks like there are no 2:1 outlets in Reno/Tahoe. They are all 1:1
    Hard Rock at Harvey's isn't listed above.

    When I went there in the summer, they broke the news to me that they didn't take RCs, but I was too tired to bother going elsewhere, so I just put it on my credit card.

    I found out later (from someone here, maybe FAB) that you could charge it to your room and THEN pay in RCs.

    I planned to do that this time, but they told me at the front desk that they would charge 2:1 if I did that, so I didn't bother.

    I still wonder what the truth is.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  12. #12
    I'm trying to think back about my dinner at Searsucker. I wonder if it was when I had a $500 room comp? If it was when I had a room comp, my RCs would not have been used.

    I pay pretty close attention to my RCs and check my room charges daily -- and this is because I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF REWARD CREDITS.

    As of now, I have $97 in reward credits. If a restaurant wanted to charge me double the price in RCs I certainly would think twice about it.

    For New Year's Eve I had $1,000 in room comps and used very little of my RCs.

  13. #13
    I would be surprised if Searsucker took food comps but charged 2:1 for RC redemption.

    Caesars does not pay independent restaurants 1-to-1 value for RC/food comp redemptions. I'm not sure what they pay the restaurant, but it's some lower percentage.

    That's the reason these restaurants tend to refuse food comps and only redeem RCs at 2:1.

    I would love to know how this Searsucker meal was paid for, and what they deducted.

    Perhaps I will call them tomorrow and ask a few questions regarding RCs and food comp acceptance.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #14
    I always charge to my room when I am staying in Vegas. I wouldn't have paid with my RCs at the restaurant. So I was staying at Caesars when I had dinner at Searsucker. The question for me is was my room charge from the restaurant paid for with a room comp or was it paid for with RCs? The tip is always paid with my credit card at check-in and the tip always appears on my bill and on the TV screen when I check my charges each day. It was a while ago so I just don't remember if that particular weekend it was when I had a room comp or used RCs????

  15. #15
    I laughed all the way through reading your story, Dan. Not laughing at you, but the incompetence of the manager you were talking to, as well as the gif of Trump. Unfortunately, it seems there are loads of unqualified workers in casinos (then again, there are a bunch of workers in casinos in general, so perhaps the distribution isn't skewed, just seems to be). I had an interesting interaction with a group of (IMO) completely retarded slot attendants recently, but that's a story for another day (long story short, they swore up and down about something, I told them they were wrong, they got mad, I showed them, then they became befuddled).

    I don't think I've ever used my RC's for anything except turning them into freeplay at 125:$1. Only times I'll eat at CET on the strip is if I have a food comp (like the 5x$100 7* tickets or a room-charge resort credit thing). Glad to know some places charge 2:1 instead of 1:1, as I might be using RCs in the future at restaurants.


    As far as "what I would have done"....I'd think I'd probably have handled it the same way you did.....although I may have considered staying at the table and drawing it out longer, then after a while getting up and leaving.


    James, are you a poker player? I only ask, because you sound like an asshole.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I laughed all the way through reading your story, Dan. Not laughing at you, but the incompetence of the manager you were talking to, as well as the gif of Trump. Unfortunately, it seems there are loads of unqualified workers in casinos (then again, there are a bunch of workers in casinos in general, so perhaps the distribution isn't skewed, just seems to be). I had an interesting interaction with a group of (IMO) completely retarded slot attendants recently, but that's a story for another day (long story short, they swore up and down about something, I told them they were wrong, they got mad, I showed them, then they became befuddled).

    I don't think I've ever used my RC's for anything except turning them into freeplay at 125:$1. Only times I'll eat at CET on the strip is if I have a food comp (like the 5x$100 7* tickets or a room-charge resort credit thing). Glad to know some places charge 2:1 instead of 1:1, as I might be using RCs in the future at restaurants.


    As far as "what I would have done"....I'd think I'd probably have handled it the same way you did.....although I may have considered staying at the table and drawing it out longer, then after a while getting up and leaving.


    James, are you a poker player? I only ask, because you sound like an asshole.
    Not a poker player, just a guy with a good upbringing.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    What point are you trying to make here?

    That somehow losing money gambling means I shouldn't be allowed to know the cost of my meal in restaurants before I order?

    I wasn't "abusing" anyone.

    I wanted to know how much my meal would cost. The restaurant employees were supposed to know this.

    When I wouldn't accept "Just try it and see if it charges you double, and if it does, tough luck on you" as an answer, she got abusive with ME, yelling at me in front of all the other customers there.

    I had every right and expectation to know the price of the meal I was about to eat.

    This was simply a case of "customer wants to know answer to something important, employee doesn't know, customer still says he needs answer, employee lashes out at customer".

    I even offered a compromise (that she fix my bill if it ends up as 2:1), and she refused.

    Would you eat at a restaurant where the manager told you that you might be charged double at the end, and you'll just have to wait and see? I bet you wouldn't.

    Also, the boss of all the CET Tahoe restaurants already agreed I was 100% in the right. It wasn't one of those situations where he told me what I wanted to hear so I would keep gambling. He listed to me all the things that were done wrong, told me he would be calling a meeting and making sure this never happened again, and offered me a $100 food credit. So clearly this was a problem on their end.

    But I'll tell ya what. If you want to cover the difference every time a restaurant won't tell me the price of my meal (or any other situation similar to this), I'll be glad to drop the matter and send the bill to you. Let me know if interested.
    You were "seething" and went back down to give her "a piece of your mind". You created a scene then went back to create another scene. You ask what I would have done? I'd have paid the bill then calmly found the answer later from the TR desk and gone on with my life. I can afford to pay my bills without making a scene. I guess getting a $100 comp was the ultimate goal, so congratulations to you, but my reputation means more to me than a $100 food credit.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I had dinner at Searsucker once and charged it to my room. I had no idea it wasn't 1:1 for RCs. I had no idea.

    James, I can't comment on the discussion between Dan and the employee because I wasn't there. I would expect that all employees could answer the question about exchange rates.
    I expect employees to be competent also, but that's not always the case. RC's are tricky as you can see by the list, some do, some don't, some are 1/2 and some are 1/1, and it can change. So what was right yesterday, may not be right today. Dan said nobody charges 1/2 RC's in Vegas and he was wrong and he's supposed to be the resident expert on all things Vegas. Does that make him incompetent? Retarded?

    If I saw a 6'2 guy standing there putting an employee into tears over a few bucks in comps, I'd suspect he was an asshole. If I saw the guy come back "seething" ready to "put her in her place", I would have confirmation. Yes, I wasn't there, but from past history Dan seems to get his panties in a bunch over a lot of small things. Me? I try to keep things calm, get the right answer at the right time and not create scenes.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not in Vegas. They either accept them at 1:1 or not at all.

    In Tahoe, I keep hearing different stories. I was told that Hard Rock does NOT accept RCs, but you can charge to your room and then pay it off using RCs at 2:1. Not sure if that's actually true.

    Was told at the front desk that Straw Hat was 2:1, but I went there and asked, and they told me 1:1. It was really expensive though (like $26 for a large pizza), so I never ate there.

    I know for sure that some restaurants in the AC market accept RCs at 2:1. Ruth's Chris kept going back and forth between 1:1 and 2:1, as mentioned frequently in Seven Stars Insider.
    So Dan, you just put out incorrect info. "Not in Vegas. They either accept them at 1:1 or not at all." See how easy it is to put out incorrect information? Perhaps a little more homework on your part could have prevented a confrontation.

  20. #20
    "But I'll tell ya what. If you want to cover the difference every time a restaurant won't tell me the price of my meal (or any other situation similar to this), I'll be glad to drop the matter and send the bill to you. Let me know if interested."

    Now you're being a drama queen. You knew the price of the meal, it was on the menu. You were upset it might end up costing you a few more bucks at 2/1 vs 1/1. Tahoe is our main destination and the few times they have made mistakes, I have been able to resolve it without creating a scene. I don't puff up my chest and "try to set anyone straight".

    If times are that tough for you 7 stars, tell me the difference in price between 1/1 or 2/1 RC's in this case and I'll send you the difference. PM me your paypal address.

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