Has anyone researched the Video Lottery Terminal vp machines??

[slingshot]

After several months of playing a certain casino here in Bossier, the growing consensus is that something's definitely going on. After playing 3 hours without a quad, I set next to a gentleman who was vacationing FROM Vegas and had just hit 4 6's. Of course I was somewhat upset, but I had played slowly and best as I could-so I congratulated him. I told him I was glad to see SOMEONE hit one as I had played for hours. He surprised me by saying it was his first since there a day ago and said he wished he had stayed in Vegas and would never complain again once he got back. But this has been going on for months and I thought all the carping and griping was just over bad luck. So I quit but could not grasp the reality of how my usual winning could change so decisively. Then I found out how many states are getting the VLT machines which are nothing more than slots.
Almost forgot. Whenever you play one, you have to choose the VP screen, because the machines are filled with keno players who sit endlessly playing.

[jbjb]

Never played a VLT and probably never will.

[slingshot]

Never played a VLT and probably never will.

So they differ in appearance to standard VP machines?

[regnis]

Sling--depending upon the location, some operate on a linked system that mirrors an RNG, but some have pre-programmed results like scratch-off tickets. On the latter, if the big hands have been hit, you actually have no chance of hitting them. I don't know if and when they "re-set".

Years ago before we had casinos in Illinois, there was talk of having VLT's. While gambling and therefore real slots or VP was illegal, states that had lotteries were trying to squeeze VLT's under the lottery exception. My group formed a corporation named VLT, Inc. to try to monopolize the use of the name. We then tried to get zoning approval to operate in a sports bar type facility. The local alderman suggested that I meet with his "associate" regarding zoning. She wanted $20,000 to get zoning approval. We signed the lease and delayed paying the 20K until VLTs were legalized. Alas, they weren't. That associate became a well known judge.

[Dan Druff]

Don't ever play Video Lottery Terminal VP.

It's a scam.

Read this: http://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sho...on-video-poker

[slingshot]

Thanks. I had just found out the casino has been sold to some group of foreigners. This week I cashed in my dwindling free play and ate my dinner comp and found all the rear VP machines closed and new ones being installed. All machines have the standard logos (IGT, etc.) which is why I was asking about the outside appearances of the vlt machines. The few up front were loaded with keno players.

[jbjb]

Thanks. I had just found out the casino has been sold to some group of foreigners. This week I cashed in my dwindling free play and ate my dinner comp and found all the rear VP machines closed and new ones being installed. All machines have the standard logos (IGT, etc.) which is why I was asking about the outside appearances of the vlt machines. The few up front were loaded with keno players.

Which casino?

A lot of the newer model machines can handle many more games on them, including keno. If it was a vlt, there's usually a sign or sticker somewhere on the machine.

[slingshot]

Which casino?

A lot of the newer model machines can handle many more games on them, including keno. If it was a vlt, there's usually a sign or sticker somewhere on the machine.

Margarittaville (sp?). This has been going on for a year. They told me I would lose my top Landshark card first of last year but never changed it- only my comps. The machines appeared the same as 2 years ago when I was consistently hitting quads. On one visit this year I purposely played penny machines there at lowest denim and NEVER got ahead. I played one machine for 200 spins and never hit the bonus round. During this visit my host appeared and offered to load me up with free play and I told him it would do no good at this #%&@ place. LOL
BTW, WHAT kind of sticker?

[jbjb]

Margarittaville (sp?). This has been going on for a year. They told me I would lose my top Landshark card first of last year but never changed it- only my comps. The machines appeared the same as 2 years ago when I was consistently hitting quads. On one visit this year I purposely played penny machines there at lowest denim and NEVER got ahead. I played one machine for 200 spins and never hit the bonus round. During this visit my host appeared and offered to load me up with free play and I told him it would do no good at this #%&@ place. LOL
BTW, WHAT kind of sticker?

So you had one bad session, using one of Singer's systems I assume, and you now think they're VLTs or it's are rigged??? You realize you will lose using them long term!!

Anyway though, if they are class II VLTs, there should be a sticker or sign on the machine saying so. If not, then they should be standard class III machines.

[slingshot]

So you had one bad session, using one of Singer's systems I assume, and you now think they're VLTs or it's are rigged??? You realize you will lose using them long term!!

Anyway though, if they are class II VLTs, there should be a sticker or sign on the machine saying so. If not, then they should be standard class III machines.

Nice try. Like Rob says- you read into a post what you want- never mind the part that says this has been going on over a year. The Horseshoe has been somewhat different- if you leave with a reasonable hit. Margarittaville you look for any break-$20 is a welcome sight. I guess it's time for all the hate sayers- thanks for the vlt info.

[mickeycrimm]

There is some discrepency in what "video lottery terminal" means. In Oregon the machines are known as Video Lottery Terminals but they operate with RNG's.

[mickeycrimm]

Sling--depending upon the location, some operate on a linked system that mirrors an RNG, but some have pre-programmed results like scratch-off tickets. On the latter, if the big hands have been hit, you actually have no chance of hitting them. I don't know if and when they "re-set".

Years ago before we had casinos in Illinois, there was talk of having VLT's. While gambling and therefore real slots or VP was illegal, states that had lotteries were trying to squeeze VLT's under the lottery exception. My group formed a corporation named VLT, Inc. to try to monopolize the use of the name. We then tried to get zoning approval to operate in a sports bar type facility. The local alderman suggested that I meet with his "associate" regarding zoning. She wanted $20,000 to get zoning approval. We signed the lease and delayed paying the 20K until VLTs were legalized. Alas, they weren't. That associate became a well known judge.

Regnis, didn't Illinois legalize small businesses like bars, restaurants, taverns having up to five machines. Wasn't this done recently. Do you know if they are Class II or Class III?

[slingshot]

One final question- how much difference in eventual payback would a few tenths of % payback affect play? Say, from 98.6 to 94%? Thanks.

[mickeycrimm]

Here are the video poker regulations for Louisiana. Some video poker pros consider them to be the most strict and precise regulations of any state. And the regulations clearly state that an RNG must select the cards:

https://www.justia.com/codes/louisia...e-27/rs-27-405

Edit: For some reason the link doesn't work but you can google RS 27:405 to find it

[regnis]

Regnis, didn't Illinois legalize small businesses like bars, restaurants, taverns having up to five machines. Wasn't this done recently. Do you know if they are Class II or Class III?

Although they are all integrated into a statewide system for accounting purposes, they are Class III. By law, every spin must be 99% random, so they are not subject to a pre-determined payout. The problem with these games is twofold:

1. The maximum payout is $500. So royals at 25 cents or higher are a killer.
2. They accept more than 5 coins per wager (i think up to 7 or 8). The payoffs other than the royal go up appropriately. But the royal is still limited to the $500. So to play those extra coins is just a means to cheat the player.

There was originally also a rule that the tables had to be at least 1 percentage point less than that offered at the casinos. I don't know if that is still the law or if the cap on the royals covers that anyway.

I have never played in one and probably never will. The ones I have seen essentially used the coat room in a local restaurant. So bad environment as well as bad payouts. Hard to believe but they are actually very profitable. Of course the illegal games in the bars were set at about 50%, so I guess it's an improvement.

Of course, like anything in Illinois, we have to assume the games are fixed and the laws are meaningless.

[slingshot]

Well, the answer must lie with just horrible luck whenever I'm at this casino-if Louisiana laws are followed. Looks like my decision to play elsewhere is my best decision. I play elsewhere and at least see a quad or two. Thanks for all the info.

[bocce ball]

During this visit my host appeared and offered to load me up with free play and I told him it would do no good at this #%&@ place. LOL

So I quit but could not grasp the reality of how my usual winning could change so decisively.

What games were you playing during your winning streak? According to vpfree2, everything at Margaritaville is below 99%, so it sounds like you ran hot for a while, and then your luck evened out.

Margaritaville's machines are the same as in Nevada. Louisiana allows 15 riverboat licenses each with up to 30,000 square feet of gaming. The licenses tend to move around as regional economies fluctuate. Margaritaville's license was acquired from Isle of Capri Lake Charles, which may have acquired it from New Orleans.

Louisiana does also allow video poker in bars. AFAIK, those machines aren't rigged either, but pay schedules are extremely tight due to regulatory restrictions.

[slingshot]

What games were you playing during your winning streak? According to vpfree2, everything at Margaritaville is below 99%, so it sounds like you ran hot for a while, and then your luck evened out.

Margaritaville's machines are the same as in Nevada. Louisiana allows 15 riverboat licenses each with up to 30,000 square feet of gaming. The licenses tend to move around as regional economies fluctuate. Margaritaville's license was acquired from Isle of Capri Lake Charles, which may have acquired it from New Orleans.

Louisiana does also allow video poker in bars. AFAIK, those machines aren't rigged either, but pay schedules are extremely tight due to regulatory restrictions.

I played the same machines, although they moved most of the VP section to the rear 2 years ago. Now they're replacing those.

[bocce ball]

If it were me and I doubted the integrity of the machines, I would try to track some aspect of my results. For example, I might count dealt 3-of-a-kinds as a percentage of total hands. Average frequency should be once every 47.3 dealt hands (2.1%).

I tend not to rely on feedback from other players because most casino regulars will complain given any opportunity. With new machines being installed, it is easily possible that the casino is tightening up, but the video poker changes would be visible on the pay screens.

[slingshot]

If it were me and I doubted the integrity of the machines, I would try to track some aspect of my results. For example, I might count dealt 3-of-a-kinds as a percentage of total hands. Average frequency should be once every 47.3 dealt hands (2.1%).

I tend not to rely on feedback from other players because most casino regulars will complain given any opportunity. With new machines being installed, it is easily possible that the casino is tightening up, but the video poker changes would be visible on the pay screens.

The frequency of flushes, straights, and full houses is what bothers. Mainly the flushes- if a 4flush hits, it's a major victory. They throw 4 flushes out repeatedly and they don't hit. Crazy.