Any Experience with M Resort $500 Loss Rebate?

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj is now saying there is a difference in visibility between seat #2 and the middle seat.

I didn't see any difference.

Would someone else please compare the visibility between the two seats?

[kewlJ]

Kewlj is now saying there is a difference in visibility between seat #2 and the middle seat.

I didn't see any difference.

That is bullshit, Alan! Kewlj is NOT NOW saying it. Re-read post #321, posted before you made your little midnight run, where you intentionally posted a view from a different angle.

You didn't see any difference, because you don't want to see any difference. It's not like you are looking objectively is it? You made up your mind and went searching for an angle that backs your views. Didn't matter that it was not what was discussed.

Let me ask you something: How in the hell would someone sit in one of the first two seats, with their back to the table "next" to them and be able to see the cards at that table. Is that really what you think I was saying? Because I think I made it pretty clear that you need to be in the middle of the table so you can see both the table to your right and the table to your left with just a slight turn of the head or eyes. Remember??...we had that whole discussion about the head and eyes being able to move??

It is you who changed the story and continue to do so.

As a matter of fact, let me ask anyone else who read the thread: Is there anyone who didn't understand that I specifically said seated at the middle of the table?

[redietz]

I haven't played blackjack for 35 years, but I understood the mention of middle seat. That's why I said I'd measure from middle seat to middle seat with the tape measure. I think pretty obviously that's where one would sit to attempt it.

[dannyj]

What amazes me is that I made no claims about the random shooter who rolled 18 yos in a row. As I said from the start -- I didn't make money on the roll and neither did the other two guys at the table which included the shooter.

We all stood there, one 11 after another, in disbelief. None of us even bet $1 on 11.

And so did the dealers who checked the dice twice during the 18 rolls. They were in disbelief too.

I merely told about what I saw. I didn't claim to have won a million dollars. Heck, I didn't even claim that I rolled the 18 yos or that I could count cards on two blackjack tables simultaneously.

It's amazing how devoted these "APs" are to their numbers that they can't even accept an eyewitness report about what happened? I wonder if they accept the bills they get in the mail? I wonder if they accept their tax liability, or do they say "this can't happen"?

I'm not saying the 18 yo's in a row did not happen, but mathematically has anyone ever calculated the odds?

[Alan Mendelson]

The odds of 18 Yos in a row is gazillions to one. This is why they can't believe it. I knew the odds of rolling two in a row are high which is why I didn't bet a yo after the second throw... and after the third... and after the fourth... and after the fifth...

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm really looking forward to someone sitting at a blackjack table and comparing the views of neighboring tables from ALL seats.

[Alan Mendelson]

By the way kewlj all of the blackjack tables in that pit were in two parallel rows. When sitting at any table there was no table at your back. Obviously I was looking at the next table either to my right or left.

Maybe the 18-inches between each seat makes a difference to you? But 18-inches or even 36-inches doesn't make a difference to me.

Distance between tables is only one variable. Other variabkes:

When cards are dealt and timing
How cards land on the table
Your height and your angle of view
Speed of the action of dealers and players
Position of players who might block cards

For me just the distance between the tables was enough of an obstacle.

What will others find?

[kewlJ]

When sitting at any table there was no table at your back.

WRONG! Any time there are two blackjack tables next to each other, the person in the end seats (1st base and 3rd base) have their back to the table next to them. The table is curved....it HAS to be that way. If you are sitting at first base (1st seat), your back will be right up against the back of the person playing third base (last seat) at the next table. Even your blurry picture shows that.

There may be a little bit of room at some casinos, but most are right up against each other....actually 'pinched in'. Even if there is a bit of room, you are still back to back with that player. This is one of the reasons that I avoid those corner seats. I don't want to get 'pinched in', should a quick exit become necessary. In addition, at either corner (1st base or 3rd base), your back will not only be to the table behind you, but half the pit will be to your back. I want a clear view of pit activities.

All those other "variables" that you mentioned are nonsense. That's just you looking for an issue. Those variables are non issues for experienced counters. And as I said at the very beginning, yes occasionally you may miss a card or two, being temp blocked or timing or whatever. You would like your count at the second table to be as accurate as possible, but if it is off a couple, that is acceptable. All you are looking for is a significantly better count at that second table, presenting a stronger opportunity than the table you are currently playing.

I don't know why I am bothering to explain this a 4th or 5th time now. Tracking two tables isn't anything new nor ground-breaking and it isn't that difficult for experienced counters, playing a reasonably simple count. Good spotters on decent teams are tracking 3,4,5 tables, looking for that same significant count to call in the big player. Tracking a second table while playing one, is kind of like acting as your own spotter.

But you will continue to choose not to believe and challenge....so do your thing.

[kewlJ]

A couple other things for your consideration. Usually the second table that I am tracking only has 1, 2 or 3 players, which makes it more likely that I have a line of vision. I won't bother with a table that has 4 or 5 players because the last thing I want to do is track that second table, get a strong positive count and have someone jump in the last available seat or two, before I can.

And I am sure you are going to love this one (as in scream No way), but occasionally, very rarely...but occasionally, I am tracking my game and two other tables. It's rare. First I need active tables on both sides of me, where I have a clear line of vision and seats available at each table, should I jump. I can only do this for a round or two. So if the timing is just right and each of those tables are staring a new shoe about the same time, I will track both (in addition to my own game), for a round or two and then drop the table with the worst count and continue tracking my game and one neighboring game.

So go ahead. Call me a liar, because you think it can't be done.

[Dan Druff]

Alan, I sincerely doubt the claim that 18 Yos (elevens) were rolled in a row in craps.

The odds of one Yo is 1/18 -- or 5.6%.

Now, let's throw out the first one, because a Yo will eventually be rolled. So the question is -- what are the odds of 17 more consecutive Yos being rolled right after that?

Well, that math problem is easy. You take 1/18 and make it to the power of 17. So it's (1/18)^17.

And the answer? 1 in 2185911559738696531968.

Approximately 1 in 2 sextillion.

How long are those odds?

Let's say a craps roll occurs every 10 seconds. It doesn't (because the game pauses far more often than that), but let's go with that number.

At that rate, you would see 17 Yos in a row once every 692 trillion years. And we're talking about 17 Yos in a row. Change it to 18, and that goes up to once every 12 quadrillion years.

Needless to say, Alan has never seen 18 Yos in a row, nor has anyone anytime anywhere.

Unless the dice were loaded.

[RS__]

Alan, I sincerely doubt the claim that 18 Yos (elevens) were rolled in a row in craps.

The odds of one Yo is 1/18 -- or 5.6%.

Now, let's throw out the first one, because a Yo will eventually be rolled. So the question is -- what are the odds of 17 more consecutive Yos being rolled right after that?

Well, that math problem is easy. You take 1/18 and make it to the power of 17. So it's (1/18)^17.

And the answer? 1 in 2185911559738696531968.

Approximately 1 in 2 sextillion.

How long are those odds?

Let's say a craps roll occurs every 10 seconds. It doesn't (because the game pauses far more often than that), but let's go with that number.

At that rate, you would see 17 Yos in a row once every 692 trillion years. And we're talking about 17 Yos in a row. Change it to 18, and that goes up to once every 12 quadrillion years.

Needless to say, Alan has never seen 18 Yos in a row, nor has anyone anytime anywhere.

Unless the dice were loaded.

This assumes the first roll is already a yo and you only need 17 more yo's. Either way, it's a crazy number. That doesn't really do it justice. You can say a billion or a googol, but we can't really wrap our brain around it.

Put simply, you're far and away much more likely to get dealt three royal flushes in a row than to see 18 yo's in a row (about 143,000 times as likely). Dealt RF, as in being dealt all 5 RF cards and auto-holding all 5.

If you're playing video poker on 10-play and are dealt 4 to the royal, you're 748,000 times more likely to draw the single royal card, on all 10 draws, than to see 18 yo's in a row. I've played a good amount of 10-play, and I've hit a royal on 2 of the draws three times I can remember. I've never hit 3+ in one go. I would assume the machine malfunctioned if I hit all 10 (not that I'd deny the money).

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj please look at the photos I took at Mirage. Does it look to you that the players in the end seats are back to back?

Here's a photo of a blackjack table for sale. Where are the end positions?

https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-3048615...able-004-3.gif

By the way, which is the MIDDLE seat you said you use?

http://www.americangamingsupply.com/...productId=5986

[Alan Mendelson]

I know Dan. I know. And that's why I never bet even one dollar on the Yo. Who would have thunk another Yo was coming?

[mickeycrimm]

Kewlj please look at the photos I took at Mirage. Does it look to you that the players in the end seats are back to back? Here's a photo of a blackjack table for sale. Where are the end positions? https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-3048615...able-004-3.gifBy the way, which is the MIDDLE seat you said you use? http://www.americangamingsupply.com/...productId=5986

You are really clutching at straws with this one. People don't sit as close together as the bets spots are. People playing first and third base sit on the very end of the table.

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickeycrimm please post a photo.

This photo comes from Google. Put in a few players and do you think you can see the cards at other tables?

https://www.google.com/search?q=phot...mJ6_U8hSm5s0M:

And which is the MIDDLE SEAT?

[Alan Mendelson]

Question for Kewlj: you prefer the "middle" seat over "third base"? Care to explain?

[Alan Mendelson]

This assumes the first roll is already a yo and you only need 17 more yo's. Either way, it's a crazy number. That doesn't really do it justice. You can say a billion or a googol, but we can't really wrap our brain around it.

Put simply, you're far and away much more likely to get dealt three royal flushes in a row than to see 18 yo's in a row (about 143,000 times as likely). Dealt RF, as in being dealt all 5 RF cards and auto-holding all 5.

If you're playing video poker on 10-play and are dealt 4 to the royal, you're 748,000 times more likely to draw the single royal card, on all 10 draws, than to see 18 yo's in a row. I've played a good amount of 10-play, and I've hit a royal on 2 of the draws three times I can remember. I've never hit 3+ in one go. I would assume the machine malfunctioned if I hit all 10 (not that I'd deny the money).

I've been dealt a royal four times.

First was at Mandalay on a 50-play machine. Nickels. It paid $10,000.
Second was at Rincon on a progressive that paid about $36,000.
Third was at Bellagio on their $5 progressive. Paid $31,005. I posted the photo here on this forum.
Fourth was at Caesars on a $1 game. I posted the photo here on this forum.

And then my girlfriend was dealt two royals within 24 hours.

Figure the odds. Shit happens.

You also mocked me for getting two $100K royals within 300 hands of playing $25 VP. It happened again. What you're overlooking is that in both cases I had played $1, $2 and $5 video poker -- sometimes for hours -- before I built up the bankroll to play $25 and I got the royals soon after switching to $25 VP.

I also played $1, $2, and $5 video poker sometimes for weeks or months without a royal. The royals just happened to have come when the denomination was $25.

I hit another royal this past week. But it was a 25 cent royal at Arizona Charlies on Boulder Highway. I started with $100 in the machine.

[AxelWolf]

Mickeycrimm, Were you still homeless during that play?

Absolutely not. I had been off the street for six years at that point. And I was enjoying full RFB in every joint in Laughlin.

That was 15 years ago. Are casinos still that stupid relating to AP abuse of promotions?

YES!!!

Some of the best promotions I have been on have been in the last 4 years. It's hard to rate the best promo/play, it's kinda subjective. There may be a high-value play that only lasts for one day VS a lower value play that lasts a long time.

At The Pioneer that MC was talking about, it was not a promotion, it was a complete system integrated into their slots. They have had a casino double time on their slots for over 20 years in various different versions. They started off with a visual double time. A song would play multiple times during the hour...
♪Double time, double time, double time, blah.. blah.. blah♪ (I think they may still play the same song). If you hit a particular slot payout during the song and your slot light would glow solid and you were paid double. They had employees up in carousels and around the casino who verified and then someone came and paid you. After a while, they got hit by AP's, so they started watching people who were only jumping in and playing during the double time period. Guys would get warned and or tossed out. An easy fix for an AP, just playing 1 coin slow moving around in between the double time, of course, that ate into your profits. Obviously, the casino caught onto that after a while, but there are usually ways to get around being noticed as an AP, at least for a while, but it was hard to go undetected for long.

As technology advanced they advanced the system as they changed a few things throughout the years. It was all but impossible to get away with for long until they added a new automated system by Anchor gaming, the one MC is referring to(The Mandalaybay casino added a similar system to their entire casino when it first opened...OOPS!!)

Even better than the keno at the Pioneer, I noticed they had 2 untouched Odyssey multi game machines with Top hat Blackjack where we bet $100 a hand. You got double for each winning hand(not only your win but your bet as well) during the double time(sometimes it fucked you). The double time worked on a banking system divided into sections, so the more you won during a session the longer it took to come on next time in that section. The casino noticed little by little what games were getting taken advantage of, so they kept tweaking the hit requirements higher and higher. They still have the same system in place and there may be a good opportunity hidden in there somewhere as they have changed machines, I haven't really taken the time to look for a long time.

[AxelWolf]

Alan, I sincerely doubt the claim that 18 Yos (elevens) were rolled in a row in craps.

The odds of one Yo is 1/18 -- or 5.6%.

Now, let's throw out the first one, because a Yo will eventually be rolled. So the question is -- what are the odds of 17 more consecutive Yos being rolled right after that?

Well, that math problem is easy. You take 1/18 and make it to the power of 17. So it's (1/18)^17.

And the answer? 1 in 2185911559738696531968.

Approximately 1 in 2 sextillion.

How long are those odds?

Let's say a craps roll occurs every 10 seconds. It doesn't (because the game pauses far more often than that), but let's go with that number.

At that rate, you would see 17 Yos in a row once every 692 trillion years. And we're talking about 17 Yos in a row. Change it to 18, and that goes up to once every 12 quadrillion years.

Needless to say, Alan has never seen 18 Yos in a row, nor has anyone anytime anywhere.

Unless the dice were loaded.

And you are not an AP, correct? IIRC Alan has indicated its mostly only AP's who don't believe he saw 18 yo's in a row.

I dont think you would find too many people who really believe it. I'm sure anyone who claims they believe it are just humoring him, or they are the same people who believe in bigfoot.

[Alan Mendelson]

No one has to believe it. Frankly, I don't care. I have no money at stake. I didn't roll the dice. I just stood there and will always regret I never bet even one dollar on those 18 rolls... never mind a press.

The point is it happened. Life goes on.

My girlfriend was dealt two royals in less than 24 hours. Somebody wins the lottery. In fact, when I lived in Valencia I lived on a street where one of the neighbors won the California lottery twice in one year. Shit happens.