Any Experience with M Resort $500 Loss Rebate?

[mickeycrimm]

Again, one need only look at the Wizard's "infamous words of wisdom" to understand why AP's come up so misguided when it comes to the basics of winning consistently at video poker--and why 5 more or less paytable credits here or there are NOT the most likely reason people win or lose any particular session. To refresh the one-track/true-believer minds here: "I'D RATHER MAKE A GOOD (aka, +EV) BET AND LOSE, THAN MAKE A BAD (aka, -EV) BET AND WIN!"

This is a deliberate misquote (lie) by Rob....who has no scruples. The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

Unlike Rob and Alan, I have absolutely no problem understanding the meaning of Shack's statement. It is similar to Mike Caro's "Poker is not about winning pots; it's about making correct decisions."

Example 1. If anyone here wants to lay me 11 to 10 flipping coins I will gladly play you until you are broke.

Example 2. If you ask me to lay 11 to 10 flipping coins I will turn you down.

In both cases I will be making the correct decision. But in Example 1, if I'm getting 11 to 10 on each flip I'm going to lose half the flips but I still have a good bet. My position in the game would be so strong that if Bill Gates played me long enough I would take every dime he has. This is what Shack's statement means. If you make correct decisions the winning will take care of itself....even if you don't win every bet.

[Alan Mendelson]

Again, one need only look at the Wizard's "infamous words of wisdom" to understand why AP's come up so misguided when it comes to the basics of winning consistently at video poker--and why 5 more or less paytable credits here or there are NOT the most likely reason people win or lose any particular session. To refresh the one-track/true-believer minds here: "I'D RATHER MAKE A GOOD (aka, +EV) BET AND LOSE, THAN MAKE A BAD (aka, -EV) BET AND WIN!"

This is a deliberate misquote (lie) by Rob....who has no scruples. The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

Unlike Rob and Alan, I have absolutely no problem understanding the meaning of Shack's statement.

This is an incorrect statement (lie) by Mickey. I undestand Shack's correct quote.

[Alan Mendelson]

And I agree with Rob. The average civilians in casinos have no clue, like a few people here, on how to utilize the rebates properly and will lose. AP's on the other hand know a great freeroll when they see it.

I guess you didn't read Rob's statement correctly. A loss rebate is not a freeroll if the loss rebate comes in the form of free play. Let me repeat what Rob wrote:

"As Alan has said, no one ever won because of a loss rebate. You people seem to think that if you go to the M and lose $500, then come back and earn $175 out of your first $250 in free play and do the same on your next $250, you've somehow won."

Loss Rebates, as a safety net, are full of holes unless they are payable as 100% cash. if they are not, then you have to hope you don't fall through the holes.

I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, who actually lost the initial money necessary to claim a loss rebate, and then used the loss rebate to have an overall profit. I am sure it's possible and I'd like to get the report.

So far, we've heard from redietz and Fab who told us how they played with a loss rebate promotion but QUIT WHILE AHEAD from their own money and didn't lose to claim the loss rebate.

[redietz]

Again, one need only look at the Wizard's "infamous words of wisdom" to understand why AP's come up so misguided when it comes to the basics of winning consistently at video poker--and why 5 more or less paytable credits here or there are NOT the most likely reason people win or lose any particular session. To refresh the one-track/true-believer minds here: "I'D RATHER MAKE A GOOD (aka, +EV) BET AND LOSE, THAN MAKE A BAD (aka, -EV) BET AND WIN!"

This is a deliberate misquote (lie) by Rob....who has no scruples. The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

Unlike Rob and Alan, I have absolutely no problem understanding the meaning of Shack's statement.

This is an incorrect statement (lie) by Mickey. I undestand Shack's correct quote.

Alan, you are the high profile, experienced journalist on this forum. Rob routinely puts made-up paraphrases in direct quotes. Sometimes, in fact, he puts in direct quotes sentences that aren't paraphrases. He direct quotes things that aren't even close to what the "quoted" writer was saying.

Rob is directly attributing lines to people who have not said them. That would get anyone fired from any reporting job.

Out of everyone on this forum, the person who should be calling him out on this is you. So why don't you? Your silence is going to give readers the impression that direct attribution of invented sentences is okay. With the assault reporting is under these days, I think it's necessary to explain to the general public what is or is not appropriate public reporting.

[Alan Mendelson]

You're correct, redietz. Quotes should be quotes.

Since it's not my forum anymore, I am no longer the policeman. I think you should bring this to Dan's attention.

[redietz]

Given your reporting status, I think it has more weight with readers coming from you. If Rob wants to keep doing it, I don't know a way to stop him, as that would require a full-time editor. But at least if he gets called on it, people will know it's wrong. The more he gets away with it, the more he'll do it.

Given the fact that Rob touts his run at Gaming Today as proof of his journalistic experience, it's sleazy on his part. It's ridiculously easy to make shit up to make a point. One would presume, given his writing experience, that Rob would know better.

[a2a3dseddie]

I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, who actually lost the initial money necessary to claim a loss rebate, and then used the loss rebate to have an overall profit. I am sure it's possible and I'd like to get the report.

I have, but it didn't really amount to much directly from the rebate.

The Stratosphere had a rebate program years ago whereby they paid back your losses in free play up to $100 after playing a minimum of 30 minutes on any of their machines. As outlined here, I played at higher than normal denominations hoping to either hit something decent or lose the $100 trying. I lost the full $100.

I received $100 in free play and 4 free room nights which I took them up on 4 months later.

With the $100 in free play, I hit a decent bonus round on some slot machine (Buffalo?) and cashed out $325.

At the time, I was more of a blackjack player and ended up leaving with a final profit of around $2700.

[Alan Mendelson]

Given your reporting status, I think it has more weight with readers coming from you. If Rob wants to keep doing it, I don't know a way to stop him, as that would require a full-time editor. But at least if he gets called on it, people will know it's wrong. The more he gets away with it, the more he'll do it.

Given the fact that Rob touts his run at Gaming Today as proof of his journalistic experience, it's sleazy on his part. It's ridiculously easy to make shit up to make a point. One would presume, given his writing experience, that Rob would know better.

Rob Singer it is wrong to incorrectly quote others. You can paraphrase but do not use quotes when paraphrasing . This will keep discussions accurate and honest.

[Rob.Singer]

Redietz you're such a whiner. What I put in quotes is EXACTLY what Wizard means and he and others have stated in multiple posts on his own forum. And aside from it having precisely the same context as his silly byline, only an uneducated chump like mickey would miss that. You, however, did not, as your years of non-stop jealousy and anger over my 8 years of writing GT's most popular weekly column ever, constantly evokes under-your-skin type irritation.

Wise up.

[redietz]

Redietz you're such a whiner. What I put in quotes is EXACTLY what Wizard means and he and others have stated in multiple posts on his own forum. And aside from it having precisely the same context as his silly byline, only an uneducated chump like mickey would miss that. You, however, did not, as your years of non-stop jealousy and anger over my 8 years of writing GT's most popular weekly column ever, constantly evokes under-your-skin type irritation.

Wise up.

I was a journalism major for a stretch, Rob, before switching to English writing option. What you do is a no-no, even for an unpaid stringer. If you did that fake direct attribution stuff at any paper, you'd be fired.

I don't want readers to think this is a minor point. It's not. You would be fired.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob I think it would be best not to battle over quotation marks. There are more important things to discuss and challenge.

Use quotation marks for actual quotations.

Let's not get into a quotation marks debate.

[Rob.Singer]

These guys will argue about anything. And an anonymous liberal arts crybaby like redietz chooses to pick on quotation marks being used by a retired old man on a gaming forum that has its majority of members slithering around in uneducated anonymity. He thinks by telling a former successful professional gambler who also over-achieved in both the Government and the private sectors, that he would be "fired" if it were up to him, has anything at all to do with reality. Again, theory at its finest.

Liberalism is a disease.

[Alan Mendelson]

Side arguments = diversions.

[mickeycrimm]

Again, one need only look at the Wizard's "infamous words of wisdom" to understand: "I'D RATHER MAKE A GOOD (aka, +EV) BET AND LOSE, THAN MAKE A BAD (aka, -EV) BET AND WIN!"

This is a deliberate misquote (lie) by Rob....who has no scruples. The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

Here's Rob's quote and my quote. Now who did you say was a liar, Alan?

[Alan Mendelson]

I said you made a misstatement about ME, Mickey.

[mickeycrimm]

I said you made a misstatement about ME, Mickey.

Oh! Okay! Well, I guess I'm sorry then.

[bocce ball]

The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

What I put in quotes is EXACTLY what Wizard means and he and others have stated in multiple posts on his own forum.

I agree with Rob in this instance. He paraphrased, but didn't change the meaning of Shackleford's quote.

I was not an English major, but the actual quote seems oddly phrased. Under what circumstances is it correct to add "or not" after the word "whether"? The Wizard's usage seems inconsistent.

[redietz]

These guys will argue about anything. And an anonymous liberal arts crybaby like redietz chooses to pick on quotation marks being used by a retired old man on a gaming forum that has its majority of members slithering around in uneducated anonymity. He thinks by telling a former successful professional gambler who also over-achieved in both the Government and the private sectors, that he would be "fired" if it were up to him, has anything at all to do with reality. Again, theory at its finest.

Liberalism is a disease.

Rob, you gotta learn to read. I didn't say that I would fire you. I said that you would be fired. Virtually every editor in the country would veto fake direct attribution. You just can't do that, bro.

P.S. Glad to see you picked up a medical degree. Good luck with that.

[Alan Mendelson]

The quote is "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

What I put in quotes is EXACTLY what Wizard means and he and others have stated in multiple posts on his own forum.

I agree with Rob in this instance. He paraphrased, but didn't change the meaning of Shackleford's quote.

I was not an English major, but the actual quote seems oddly phrased. Under what circumstances is it correct to add "or not" after the word "whether"? The Wizard's usage seems inconsistent.

If you are quoting someone, you just can't add or subtract words unless you indicate what you did. In the case of added words, you can put the added words in parentheses:

"The (old) boy was tired after the run up the hill carrying the load of logs."

In the case of subtracted words, you would use ellipses to indicate words were removed.

"The boy was tired after the run... carrying the load of logs."

[ddb1]

"I would like to hear from someone, ANYONE, who actually lost the initial money necessary to claim a loss rebate, and then used the loss rebate to have an overall profit. I am sure it's possible and I'd like to get the report."

I have.

A local casino was offering $400 rebate for new players. Rebate was issued as FP 6-8 weeks later. I signed up and started with a $400 tito. Played $1VP and $1-$5 slots. Nothing much hit and when the $400 was gone I left.

When the FP hit my account, I went back and sat down at a .25 Super Triple Play machine intending to run the FP through one time. I managed quad aces for $200 and another quad for $125. Those, along with all the smaller wins totaled $760. I cashed out and went home with a $260 profit on the endeavor.


I also did the well-publized Plaza $500 rebate. Losses up to $500 on the day you signed up for a players card would be rebated over the next two days as FP. There were restrictions on which machines the FP could be used. Mostly, the best VP machines were excluded.

Starting with $500, playing $1 9/6 DDB, a fair number of quads hit - bringing my credits to nearly $1000. Eventually my luck went sour and I cashed out at $700 - a $200 profit. So on this one I quit while ahead. I might have kept going, but getting back and forth 2 more times from the Strip to the Plaza was going to be a pain in the ass.

IMO, loss rebated are as close to a free-roll you are going to get.