Grochowski on "advantage video poker"

[AxelWolf]

If you are not hitting Royals on schedule then you're not getting the full pay of full pay Deuces Wild.

And if you are hitting Royals way before the RF cycle then you are making way more than your EV.

I have a question for you: Do you think a player who plays 2 million hands using correct strategy on FPDW will have a profit?

[mickeycrimm]

Deleted.

[mickeycrimm]

Please read what Grochowski wrote about FPDW regarding the need for a royal to be a positive play. Do you APs really get royals on schedule to maintain a positive return. If you do, that's amazing. I'm not going to ask your secret for hitting royals on schedule because I don't have the money to pay for it. You see, my royals don't come on schedule.

The royal is the payday hand for sure. You can't predict when they will come up. But you can determine whether you have a good gamble or not.

[mickeycrimm]

Finally, somebody said it....and I will clarify it. The biggest HOAX as perpetrated by the self-described "AP" crowd--and fortified by any number of ap groupies--is that these people use tournaments, drawings, giveaways, and even a sunny day or two as props for their supposed crutch to go from 99.5% to 100.1%, thereby creating a "winner" out of thin air. And that's exactly why these imposter AP's from WoV show up here with nothing other than claims of wildly high "edges" while cloaked in anonymity, secrecy....and to the well informed reader--BS.

redietz, my statement that no one makes money off of FPDW stands. Unless and until someone comes forward with proof that they've won on these machines over time without abnormal good luck, I'll believe the numbers I saw on the Wynn machines--and then published them with their permission in GT. And guess who were the exclusive players of every FPDW game there? Yes, every big-ego AP who claims to be of the best players, the fastest players, the most accurate players, and the most feared players ever to come down the pike. Over time, they all lost.

Rob, I have a few problems with your assertions. First, what meter did you get to look at? Those were multi-game machines. There is a coin-in/coin-out for overall results of the machine that includes all games. If you want to see what each individual game held then you have to go to different coin-in/coin-out meters.

Second, what issue of Gaming Today did you publish this in? Can you put up a copy of the article here? Or do you have some excuse like a phantom storage unit in New Mexico? If you published it then it would have been big news in the gambling forums, especially vpFREE. But I don't recall any such news. Or maybe this is just another fairy tale you concocted.

Third, that bank got a lot of action. Almost 24/7 for the short time it lasted. So they were making 1.5% on dollar games? And they pulled it? The first question is why? But you know what happened. When they pulled the game it turned that bank into a ghost town. Now, I understand, maybe when they pulled it they were thinking "we could make more money off these guys if we take that game off and let them play the sucker games." But like I said, the bank went from fulltime action to zero action. Now, after seeing that, don't you think those execs would have thought "Well, that didn't work. Let's put the game back on and just take the 1.5%."

What would you rather have, Rob, 3% of nothing or 1.5% of something?

mickey you're such an idiot when you're drinking.

First, who keeps copies of old papers unless they live slug lives like you. Maybe you can get the online version direct from GT, but you might have to pay ten bucks for it, which would be a deal killer to somebody like you.

Nobody looked at "meters" you moron. If you knew anything about analyzing a business or accounting methods you'd know the reports generated from the results are what gets analyzed--not a bunch of suits sitting around every machine wetting their pants waiting for some cigarette-smoking lowly paid tech to pull up the "meters". Those are what they showed me, and the reason they did was to let me know the very low house hold on most of the games on these machines compared to the avg. hold on the rest of the vp machines, did not meet Steve Wynn's required profit margin--which is what execs care about more than anything else. They may or may not have made more money for them than some other banks of machines--that info was not allowed to be shared with me for my article. This--and the fact that Wynn was appalled when he saw teams/families of Chinese people slurping noodles and eating fish sandwiches at his machines--were the reasons given to me and what I wrote about why the machines were taken out.

So wise up, and stop feeling bad about the phony fantasies of being an AP. Get your teeth cleaned instead. You'll feel better.

So now you are saying Steve Wynn is a racist? Okay, if Wynn didn't want the action don't you think a dingy local joint that is used to "minorities" would want that business. All they have to do is slap in FPDW to get it. But they don't do that do they? Why is that? Because they don't want to lose.

If they were really holding 1.5% you would have blasted it on the gambling forums. But you didn't do that. This is the first we've heard of it in an incident that occurred ten years ago. And that means your story is phony as a whore's prayer.

[mickeycrimm]

Finally, somebody said it....and I will clarify it. The biggest HOAX as perpetrated by the self-described "AP" crowd--and fortified by any number of ap groupies--is that these people use tournaments, drawings, giveaways, and even a sunny day or two as props for their supposed crutch to go from 99.5% to 100.1%, thereby creating a "winner" out of thin air. And that's exactly why these imposter AP's from WoV show up here with nothing other than claims of wildly high "edges" while cloaked in anonymity, secrecy....and to the well informed reader--BS.

redietz, my statement that no one makes money off of FPDW stands. Unless and until someone comes forward with proof that they've won on these machines over time without abnormal good luck, I'll believe the numbers I saw on the Wynn machines--and then published them with their permission in GT. And guess who were the exclusive players of every FPDW game there? Yes, every big-ego AP who claims to be of the best players, the fastest players, the most accurate players, and the most feared players ever to come down the pike. Over time, they all lost.

Rob, I have a few problems with your assertions. First, what meter did you get to look at? Those were multi-game machines. There is a coin-in/coin-out for overall results of the machine that includes all games. If you want to see what each individual game held then you have to go to different coin-in/coin-out meters.

Second, what issue of Gaming Today did you publish this in? Can you put up a copy of the article here? Or do you have some excuse like a phantom storage unit in New Mexico? If you published it then it would have been big news in the gambling forums, especially vpFREE. But I don't recall any such news. Or maybe this is just another fairy tale you concocted.

Third, that bank got a lot of action. Almost 24/7 for the short time it lasted. So they were making 1.5% on dollar games? And they pulled it? The first question is why? But you know what happened. When they pulled the game it turned that bank into a ghost town. Now, I understand, maybe when they pulled it they were thinking "we could make more money off these guys if we take that game off and let them play the sucker games." But like I said, the bank went from fulltime action to zero action. Now, after seeing that, don't you think those execs would have thought "Well, that didn't work. Let's put the game back on and just take the 1.5%."

What would you rather have, Rob, 3% of nothing or 1.5% of something?

mickey you're such an idiot when you're drinking.

First, who keeps copies of old papers unless they live slug lives like you. Maybe you can get the online version direct from GT, but you might have to pay ten bucks for it, which would be a deal killer to somebody like you.

Nobody looked at "meters" you moron. If you knew anything about analyzing a business or accounting methods you'd know the reports generated from the results are what gets analyzed--not a bunch of suits sitting around every machine wetting their pants waiting for some cigarette-smoking lowly paid tech to pull up the "meters". Those are what they showed me, and the reason they did was to let me know the very low house hold on most of the games on these machines compared to the avg. hold on the rest of the vp machines, did not meet Steve Wynn's required profit margin--which is what execs care about more than anything else. They may or may not have made more money for them than some other banks of machines--that info was not allowed to be shared with me for my article. This--and the fact that Wynn was appalled when he saw teams/families of Chinese people slurping noodles and eating fish sandwiches at his machines--were the reasons given to me and what I wrote about why the machines were taken out.

So wise up, and stop feeling bad about the phony fantasies of being an AP. Get your teeth cleaned instead. You'll feel better.

Rob, everyone knows how you are. If they were really holding 1.5% you would have been licking your chops to post it up in the forums, when it occurred ten years ago, to rub AP's noses in it. So could you point us to the forum or forums where you posted it up at the time so we can go through the archives and find it.

[mickeycrimm]

Those are what they showed me, and the reason they did was to let me know the very low house hold on most of the games on these machines compared to the avg. hold on the rest of the vp machines, did not meet Steve Wynn's required profit margin--which is what execs care about more than anything else.

Rob you are making it up on the fly. Wynn couldn't have possibly been that stupid. That bank got tons of action then practically no action after the game was removed. Even Benny Binion with a third grade education knew that 1.5% of a $10,000,000 handle is five times more money than 3% of a $1,000,000 handle.

The game was removed because Wynn was getting beat.

[redietz]

LOL -- I think Rob's in trouble on this one. I never saw any Chinese families slurping noodles or eating fish sandwiches at the machines. Rob, did you see Chinese families slurping noodles at the machines? How did you know they were families? How did you know they were Chinese? Were they wearing "I'm Chinese" shirts or something?

I've gotta send Rob's post along to the Wynn, just for entertainment value. I'll provide Rob's real name and request a comment.

[redietz]

Steve Wynn hates the Chinese -- that'll play well in Macau.

[Alan Mendelson]

Wynn's casinos including the Bellagio were all designed to appeal to Asian players,

[Rob.Singer]

As usual the facts get laid out but mickey can't handle the truth. Maybe we can get redietz to check with Steve Wynn himself (although red and his "40+ years gaming experience" petered out when he claimed to go into GT huffing & puffing) who made all the decisions exactly as described. Bottom line: AP's just don't like the way it went down, so they need to make up a different storyline to feel better about their flawed beliefs.

Yes red, I was there OBVIOUSLY. Why would the author of such a program be anywhere else? It was wildly popular and after I was allowed to publish the results and storyline, it shut the critical and blind AP's up for quite some time. Even mickey's idol, Dancer, never commented on any of it in his books or columns.

It was a sweet victory over the big mouth lying AP crowd and still is. Watching the reactions here more than ten years later once again proves that.

[redietz]

As usual the facts get laid out but mickey can't handle the truth. Maybe we can get redietz to check with Steve Wynn himself (although red and his "40+ years gaming experience" petered out when he claimed to go into GT huffing & puffing) who made all the decisions exactly as described. Bottom line: AP's just don't like the way it went down, so they need to make up a different storyline to feel better about their flawed beliefs.

Yes red, I was there OBVIOUSLY. Why would the author of such a program be anywhere else? It was wildly popular and after I was allowed to publish the results and storyline, it shut the critical and blind AP's up for quite some time. Even mickey's idol, Dancer, never commented on any of it in his books or columns.

It was a sweet victory over the big mouth lying AP crowd and still is. Watching the reactions here more than ten years later once again proves that.

I have no idea what the above actually means. That was a lot of gobbledygook.

I was there. I saw no Chinese slurping noodles at the machines, but maybe that's because I have no Chinese-identifying radar, as Rob seems to have. So let me try to pin Rob down. Rob are you actually claiming (1) that you saw Chinese families slurping noodles and eating fish sandwiches at the machines, and/or (2) that an actual, live Wynn casino exec(s) told you that the Wynn just couldn't tolerate Chinese eating noodles at the machines?

Or were you just spouting racist nonsense as you do on occasion? Inquiring minds want to know the undeniable truth. Inquiring minds would also like to know how you determined AP's had been shut up by your column. Did they write you a letter? Did they not write you a letter? Do you have their phones tapped? Or do you just know everything by the grace of God?

P.S. Rob, I've never made it into Gaming Today for my investigation into the firing of everyone's favorite unpaid stringer. I'm saving that for a rainy day. Don't worry -- I'll get around to it. I try to save fun for rainy days. What I've heard is that you went off the rails in a column regarding an AP who had recently died, and GT, which is kind of a fun, tourist tabloid, caught all kinds of heat for your caustic inappropriate remarks. But that's just rumor. I will try to get some kind of actual explanation.

[mickeycrimm]

As usual the facts get laid out but mickey can't handle the truth. Maybe we can get redietz to check with Steve Wynn himself (although red and his "40+ years gaming experience" petered out when he claimed to go into GT huffing & puffing) who made all the decisions exactly as described. Bottom line: AP's just don't like the way it went down, so they need to make up a different storyline to feel better about their flawed beliefs.

Yes red, I was there OBVIOUSLY. Why would the author of such a program be anywhere else? It was wildly popular and after I was allowed to publish the results and storyline, it shut the critical and blind AP's up for quite some time. Even mickey's idol, Dancer, never commented on any of it in his books or columns.

It was a sweet victory over the big mouth lying AP crowd and still is. Watching the reactions here more than ten years later once again proves that.

I have no idea what the above actually means. That was a lot of gobbledygook.

I was there. I saw no Chinese slurping noodles at the machines, but maybe that's because I have no Chinese-identifying radar, as Rob seems to have. So let me try to pin Rob down. Rob are you actually claiming (1) that you saw Chinese families slurping noodles and eating fish sandwiches at the machines, and/or (2) that an actual, live Wynn casino exec(s) told you that the Wynn just couldn't tolerate Chinese eating noodles at the machines?

Or were you just spouting racist nonsense as you do on occasion? Inquiring minds want to know the undeniable truth. Inquiring minds would also like to know how you determined AP's had been shut up by your column. Did they write you a letter? Did they not write you a letter? Do you have their phones tapped? Or do you just know everything by the grace of God?

P.S. Rob, I've never made it into Gaming Today for my investigation into the firing of everyone's favorite unpaid stringer. I'm saving that for a rainy day. Don't worry -- I'll get around to it. I try to save fun for rainy days. What I've heard is that you went off the rails in a column regarding an AP who had recently died, and GT, which is kind of a fun, tourist tabloid, caught all kinds of heat for your caustic inappropriate remarks. But that's just rumor. I will try to get some kind of actual explanation.

That was Skip Hughes, a video poker writer, that died. And what Rob wrote about him shortly after he died was reprehensible. I didn't tie the two together at the time but it makes sense that Rob was fired for his remarks.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm just curious: if Rob's comments were so reprehensible how did they get published in the first place? I am sure that even at a small publication like GT someone reviewed articles as well as advertising before publication.

[redietz]

Like I said, for me it's just rumors, as I'm not an AP and I don't think I ever read the column in question. I was in LV 90 days or so each year, so I read just a subset of Rob's columns. I'm not familiar with all of the politics or debates between Rob and the higher profile APs. Mickey and the guys from WoV might be able to shed some light.

I do think Chuck DiRocco, the publisher of GT at the time, pretty much gave Rob carte blanche. So it may be as Rob says -- his column was in its own category. Rob was always a decent writer -- better than the people who were gamblers first, writers second, so it wouldn't surprise me if his stuff was rarely edited.

[mickeycrimm]

I'm just curious: if Rob's comments were so reprehensible how did they get published in the first place? I am sure that even at a small publication like GT someone reviewed articles as well as advertising before publication.

Alan, it was an obit piece. Just think of all the negative stuff Rob has said about arci and you will know what Rob wrote about Skip Hughes. Whether you believe it or not, Ron is sadistic. He had no concern at all for the widow and kids reading the article at a time when they were grieving for their lost loved one.

[mickeycrimm]

I'm just curious: if Rob's comments were so reprehensible how did they get published in the first place? I am sure that even at a small publication like GT someone reviewed articles as well as advertising before publication.

Chuck DiRocco used Rob, the unpaid stringer, to create controversy in order to try to increase readership. It's just like CNN making a business decision to be the anti-Trump network. In that respect Rob got played like a fiddle. To this day Rob believes that DiRocco actually believed all Rob's bullshit. But DiRocco's wife didn't care for Rob's negative writing style. . When DiRocco died she got rid of Rob....and I'm sure that obit piece was in her mind when she did.

[redietz]

The weird thing about Gaming Today back then -- Rob wasn't the only video poker columnist. The tabloid was bigger at that time, and there was usually one and sometimes two other video poker articles in GT. The other columns were by straight-shooting math guys.

To be honest, I read them all, but I read Rob's first. His column was more along the lines of the Enquirer's old "Bill Clinton Has Sex with Space Aliens" in tone, while the math guys in GT wrote columns that read like pinochle instructions. I'm reading the space aliens sex stuff first.

I'm hoping the "eat dirt" obit stories I've heard aren't actually true. They make me cringe because family and friends would have read them.

[Rob.Singer]

Funny reading all these "opinions". Best to re-read what Alan said. But I did have Chuck Di's approval to write whatever and however I chose to, within certain bounds of course. And as for mickey making his usual stuff up from the middle of nowhere--I never said a thing about Skip Hughes other than how the publisher was ecstatic to get rid if him & Dancer and replace them with me. How stupid of you to claim I railed against his death by esophageal cancer in a column. Typical lowlife hick talk. Arci got it and got it good here because that's what he deserved. Skip H. never said anything personal about me.

Red, if and when you finally venture into GT and Wynn you'll probably get watered down versions if anybody still cares. Steve Wynn is the only exec still there and if he remembers any of it is anyone's guess. But if there is memory, then you'll come out of this with the sane egg on the face as the envious, disbelieving critics did after Alan went into Wynn's hi-limit slots room and took a pic of the off-center $25 denom. identifier on the machine I hit the $100k winner on that few could handle believing.

Good luck.

[Alan Mendelson]

And if you are hitting Royals way before the RF cycle then you are making way more than your EV.

That's right. And if you quit when ahead you can also beat the EV of any game.

[mickeycrimm]

The weird thing about Gaming Today back then -- Rob wasn't the only video poker columnist. The tabloid was bigger at that time, and there was usually one and sometimes two other video poker articles in GT. The other columns were by straight-shooting math guys.

To be honest, I read them all, but I read Rob's first. His column was more along the lines of the Enquirer's old "Bill Clinton Has Sex with Space Aliens" in tone, while the math guys in GT wrote columns that read like pinochle instructions. I'm reading the space aliens sex stuff first.

I'm hoping the "eat dirt" obit stories I've heard aren't actually true. They make me cringe because family and friends would have read them.

GT took a lot of complaints about Rob. Fake news gets a lot of complaints. So they started running Elliot Frome articles to placate people. Elliot was trying to take his father's (Lenny Frome) place. Lenny was the guy that exposed positive video poker and was a great writer who wrote for GT up until his death in 1998. Elliot was rather dull and not nearly as knowledgeable at video poker as his father.

Dancer was at GT for awhile after Lenny's death. I have no clue why he left. But Dancer has been a columnist for Las Vegas Adviser for many years now and is the most read writer/columist in the history of video poker.

Rob reads Bob's column religiously as he is a big fan.