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Thread: Road Pics

  1. #621
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Mickey, question for you. Have you noticed any repercussions, as to any casino being able to identify you because of these postings? I assume you probably are not posting in real times, but with some sort of delay to the visits.
    I never post a pic of anything until I've cleared the area. Most of what I do these days is at Indian casinos. I got back on the road around the country about 4 years ago, except with time out for the heart attack and pandemic. So far I've experienced no heat and really don't see anyone else getting heat. I just don't see casino personnel sweating the exploitable machines.

    There is really very little contact with casino personnel. I don't necessarily get the players card in every spot. Waiting for a good promotion to get the card can be the better move. And I use the cash out kiosks as much as possible.

    But there ARE spots where I get room and meal comp and I haven't experienced any heat in those either.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #622
    To the best of my knowledge slot heat is either 0 or 100.

    Either they simply don't care and possibly don't know (surveillance I mean, slot personnel must know), or they bar on sight.

    MGM in LV reportedly has done it for a while now. Some Reno and one Wendover casino started doing it more recently but I'm not sure if that was temporary or a new standing policy.

    I know of a South Point barring by someone who should have reasonable comportment but I never heard the specific circumstances.

    I've never heard of it anywhere outside NV but I'm sure it happens. Of course getting barred for bad behavior toward patrons or staff, or for too large a cumulative win, can happen anywhere.

  3. #623
    Machine pros are taking equity that was built up by previous players, slots still hold whatever % they are programmed to hold so casinos bottom lines not affected like w table games so not a concern for most casinos.

    From what I’ve seen, they only ever get heat when they do something stupid like trying to con ploppies off positive games, or being too obvious & annoying to other players when checking machines, etc.

  4. #624
    I have to imagine Tasha would get banned if she was a slot hustler for being REALLY annoying.

  5. #625
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Machine pros are taking equity that was built up by previous players, slots still hold whatever % they are programmed to hold so casinos bottom lines not affected like w table games so not a concern for most casinos.
    The ploppies spend the money back into the machine. The AP walks away with it.

  6. #626
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Machine pros are taking equity that was built up by previous players, slots still hold whatever % they are programmed to hold so casinos bottom lines not affected like w table games so not a concern for most casinos.

    From what I’ve seen, they only ever get heat when they do something stupid like trying to con ploppies off positive games, or being too obvious & annoying to other players when checking machines, etc.
    The better way to think of it is handle versus hold.

    The casino should expect to hold the same % of the handle no matter what the mix of players, but slot hustlers lower the handle by leaving the machine in bad states rather than random states for the recreational players.

    Or as a hypothetical, consider a casino filled with nothing but non-degenerate slot hustlers. Nothing would ever get played. Handle would drop to zero.

  7. #627
    Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Machine pros are taking equity that was built up by previous players, slots still hold whatever % they are programmed to hold so casinos bottom lines not affected like w table games so not a concern for most casinos.

    From what I’ve seen, they only ever get heat when they do something stupid like trying to con ploppies off positive games, or being too obvious & annoying to other players when checking machines, etc.
    The better way to think of it is handle versus hold.

    The casino should expect to hold the same % of the handle no matter what the mix of players, but slot hustlers lower the handle by leaving the machine in bad states rather than random states for the recreational players.

    Or as a hypothetical, consider a casino filled with nothing but non-degenerate slot hustlers. Nothing would ever get played. Handle would drop to zero.
    A valid point but I was speaking to the fact that in general they don’t get a lot of heat bcuz in reality they are only a very small percentage of any casinos customers so not going to have a noticeable effect on the handle, and the casino has a lot more low hanging fruit to go after especially since slots are so profitable overall for casinos

  8. #628
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Machine pros are taking equity that was built up by previous players, slots still hold whatever % they are programmed to hold so casinos bottom lines not affected like w table games so not a concern for most casinos.
    The ploppies spend the money back into the machine. The AP walks away with it.
    True in theory and oftentimes in reality but not consistently & very hard to quantify.

    Many popplies will quit after they are ahead or have a big win. Many slot APs are Degens and will gamble back their winnings.

    Even when slot APs are not Degens if they are playing volatile high coin in games they will have plenty of losing days or longer losing periods.

    Would be tough for a casino to quantify exactly who is losing money back and who is walking away a winner consistently except over a very long period of time. (And is it worth casinos time to try to figure this out when penny slots are the most popular machines and average RTP on those is in the 80s?)

    And smart slot APs especially if they are killing a place will move around to other places, play unrated, etc. whatever it takes to not make it too obvious & burn a good spot.

  9. #629
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    I suppose for those that found the unlinked version, there was no heat about rapidity of play as there was with the linked version. Between that and full pay OEJ, Arci did well for himself. Great story and road pics.
    I started out on the quarter linked Flush Attacks in early 1997. It was a huge edge, 35%, on a small wager because you only played when the flush attack light on. Consequently, no comps and you had to watch out for heat.

    I switched to the unlinked Flush Attack in Northern Nevada in 1998. Running about a 5K wager a day I got plenty of room and meal comp.
    Mickey, it sounds like Sigma put out the linked version first and then the unlinked. Or perhaps they hit the floor at the same time, but the linked was just more common. Definitely a VHOF (Vulturing Hall of Fame) game if there ever was one.
    a few VHOF games:
    Draw 'til U win
    Flush Attack
    Piggy Bankin'
    At first, they were all linked and were doing well popping up at many locations. In the meantime, they came out with House-A-Rockin(Full house bonus 4/5 FH's to active a 200 coin bonus ) and Max Attack(4 of a kind bonus: 1 4ok to activate a 625 coin bonus) both in the 135% range during bonus mode, but they were not as popular.

    Eventually, even some of the regular players including little old ladies would wait whenever they got a 4 card or pat flush. I'm sure you can only imagine the complaints from the people who just wanted to play straight through... especially if you consider the fact that they knew they were feeding everyone else. It's actually the first time I heard the term vulture used, it was a customer complaining about someone sitting there being a vulture. Sandbagger was another one a customer used. Sigma made it so u had to complete the current hand before you were eligible, but That just made it better for the faster more accurate video poker players. The first place I can remember them going to individual non-linked machines was at Boulder and the trend seemed to take off after that in many locations. That didn't seem to last too long, I don't think the customers actually like that, most of them truly liked the fact that other people were contributing sent it would come on much quicker and they would never know when it was going to come on. There were still quite a few linked Banks, I don't think any of the locations in Laughlin ever went individual, but I could be wrong about that.

    4 of my girlfriends all become efficient flush attacks players, two of them weren't even 21 yet. I also hired 2 young chicks that did well. They were super fun to be around, but they were distracting and a big pain in the ass to deal with. I eventually had to cut them loose since I didn't really have the time to continue with them as there were far better things I didn't see them fitting into, and by that time there were not many banks left.

  10. #630
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    I started out on the quarter linked Flush Attacks in early 1997. It was a huge edge, 35%, on a small wager because you only played when the flush attack light on. Consequently, no comps and you had to watch out for heat.

    I switched to the unlinked Flush Attack in Northern Nevada in 1998. Running about a 5K wager a day I got plenty of room and meal comp.
    Mickey, it sounds like Sigma put out the linked version first and then the unlinked. Or perhaps they hit the floor at the same time, but the linked was just more common. Definitely a VHOF (Vulturing Hall of Fame) game if there ever was one.
    a few VHOF games:
    Draw 'til U win
    Flush Attack
    Piggy Bankin'
    At first, they were all linked and were doing well popping up at many locations. In the meantime, they came out with House-A-Rockin(Full house bonus 4/5 FH's to active a 200 coin bonus ) and Max Attack(4 of a kind bonus: 1 4ok to activate a 625 coin bonus) both in the 135% range during bonus mode, but they were not as popular.

    Eventually, even some of the regular players including little old ladies would wait whenever they got a 4 card or pat flush. I'm sure you can only imagine the complaints from the people who just wanted to play straight through... especially if you consider the fact that they knew they were feeding everyone else. It's actually the first time I heard the term vulture used, it was a customer complaining about someone sitting there being a vulture. Sandbagger was another one a customer used. Sigma made it so u had to complete the current hand before you were eligible, but That just made it better for the faster more accurate video poker players. The first place I can remember them going to individual non-linked machines was at Boulder and the trend seemed to take off after that in many locations. That didn't seem to last too long, I don't think the customers actually like that, most of them truly liked the fact that other people were contributing sent it would come on much quicker and they would never know when it was going to come on. There were still quite a few linked Banks, I don't think any of the locations in Laughlin ever went individual, but I could be wrong about that.

    4 of my girlfriends all become efficient flush attacks players, two of them weren't even 21 yet. I also hired 2 young chicks that did well. They were super fun to be around, but they were distracting and a big pain in the ass to deal with. I eventually had to cut them loose since I didn't really have the time to continue with them as there were far better things I didn't see them fitting into, and by that time there were not many banks left.
    Thanks Axel, great story, and I appreciate hearing about House-A-Rockin and Max Attack - it's fun hearing about these vulturable games of yesteryear.

  11. #631
    The dice games with the MHB remind me of these stories. I was somewhere where the meter was quite high. I don't think edges are near as big or often as the flush attack/piggy bank games described above but it does seem sorta analogous. Ploppy hit the cash out button as soon as I hit the $100 it was clear she was playing for it. I should feel bad but I giggle at my slot sociopathy. You could in theory have 2 independent plays going at once in this manner.

    Gets me to thinking which games have a shared MHBs? Anything I've missed.. Seems ripe for creating conflict in the casino, especially if larger MHBs were involved.
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  12. #632
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    The dice games with the MHB remind me of these stories. I was somewhere where the meter was quite high. I don't think edges are near as big or often as the flush attack/piggy bank games described above but it does seem sorta analogous. Ploppy hit the cash out button as soon as I hit the $100 it was clear she was playing for it. I should feel bad but I giggle at my slot sociopathy. You could in theory have 2 independent plays going at once in this manner.

    Gets me to thinking which games have a shared MHBs? Anything I've missed.. Seems ripe for creating conflict in the casino, especially if larger MHBs were involved.
    You are right that linked MHBs are a pain.

    If a pro is chasing a large MHB they will typically get a team together to lock down all the seats & guarantee they get the progressive when it drops.

    Sometimes they will try to lock down all the seats by themselves. Saw a guy once by himself playing all 4 linked machines on a larger MHB.

    Can lead to heat and also a lot of stress if someone complains and they have to give up one or more of the seats and then end up missing out on the MHB after being deeply invested into it.

  13. #633
    Originally Posted by DGenBen View Post
    Originally Posted by accountinquestion View Post
    The dice games with the MHB remind me of these stories. I was somewhere where the meter was quite high. I don't think edges are near as big or often as the flush attack/piggy bank games described above but it does seem sorta analogous. Ploppy hit the cash out button as soon as I hit the $100 it was clear she was playing for it. I should feel bad but I giggle at my slot sociopathy. You could in theory have 2 independent plays going at once in this manner.

    Gets me to thinking which games have a shared MHBs? Anything I've missed.. Seems ripe for creating conflict in the casino, especially if larger MHBs were involved.
    You are right that linked MHBs are a pain.

    If a pro is chasing a large MHB they will typically get a team together to lock down all the seats & guarantee they get the progressive when it drops.

    Sometimes they will try to lock down all the seats by themselves. Saw a guy once by himself playing all 4 linked machines on a larger MHB.

    Can lead to heat and also a lot of stress if someone complains and they have to give up one or more of the seats and then end up missing out on the MHB after being deeply invested into it.
    I was at a casino and was bsing with a guy I am familiar with. Some big black dude came around with a slot tech demanding he get off the 2 machines (There was bank of 4, with 2 guys playing 2 machines each) The guy playing was bigger but I just sorta ducked out of there meaning to go back and look at the machine. I was too drunk that night and could never locate the machines again. I remember checking they were MHBs and 4 of them linked.. but I never could figure out what the machines were subsequent nights. I remember verifying that the bank of 4 was a MHB machine in some small print on the machine but then could never relocate them. lol. Not that it matters much...
    It is official. Redietz will never be on Dan Druff's podcast. "too much integrity"

  14. #634
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    I started out on the quarter linked Flush Attacks in early 1997. It was a huge edge, 35%, on a small wager because you only played when the flush attack light on. Consequently, no comps and you had to watch out for heat.

    I switched to the unlinked Flush Attack in Northern Nevada in 1998. Running about a 5K wager a day I got plenty of room and meal comp.
    Mickey, it sounds like Sigma put out the linked version first and then the unlinked. Or perhaps they hit the floor at the same time, but the linked was just more common. Definitely a VHOF (Vulturing Hall of Fame) game if there ever was one.
    a few VHOF games:
    Draw 'til U win
    Flush Attack
    Piggy Bankin'
    At first, they were all linked and were doing well popping up at many locations. In the meantime, they came out with House-A-Rockin(Full house bonus 4/5 FH's to active a 200 coin bonus ) and Max Attack(4 of a kind bonus: 1 4ok to activate a 625 coin bonus) both in the 135% range during bonus mode, but they were not as popular.

    Eventually, even some of the regular players including little old ladies would wait whenever they got a 4 card or pat flush. I'm sure you can only imagine the complaints from the people who just wanted to play straight through... especially if you consider the fact that they knew they were feeding everyone else. It's actually the first time I heard the term vulture used, it was a customer complaining about someone sitting there being a vulture. Sandbagger was another one a customer used. Sigma made it so u had to complete the current hand before you were eligible, but That just made it better for the faster more accurate video poker players. The first place I can remember them going to individual non-linked machines was at Boulder and the trend seemed to take off after that in many locations. That didn't seem to last too long, I don't think the customers actually like that, most of them truly liked the fact that other people were contributing sent it would come on much quicker and they would never know when it was going to come on. There were still quite a few linked Banks, I don't think any of the locations in Laughlin ever went individual, but I could be wrong about that.

    4 of my girlfriends all become efficient flush attacks players, two of them weren't even 21 yet. I also hired 2 young chicks that did well. They were super fun to be around, but they were distracting and a big pain in the ass to deal with. I eventually had to cut them loose since I didn't really have the time to continue with them as there were far better things I didn't see them fitting into, and by that time there were not many banks left.
    They unlinked the 8/5 Flush Attacks at the Pioneer in Laughlin in 1999. So we had a 101.8% game with cashback, comp and promotions. And you could still sweep the bank sometimes. It was the only spot they unlinked them in Laughlin.

    Northern Nevada was where all the unlinked Flush Attacks were. At southshore Tahoe the unlinked were at Harrah's, Bill's, Horizon, Caesar's and Lakeside. I could never sweep through all of them in a day. There was also the multitude of big meters running on the video poker games at Harvey's. Harvey's was called the "Meter Capitol of the World." Combined with the advantage slots I did damn good at Tahoe.

    The unlinked were also at MGM/Reno, Verdi, Minden, Elko, Wendover. Minden had the unlinked House A Rockin' too.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #635
    Harris, Michigan
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  16. #636
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Mickey, it sounds like Sigma put out the linked version first and then the unlinked. Or perhaps they hit the floor at the same time, but the linked was just more common. Definitely a VHOF (Vulturing Hall of Fame) game if there ever was one.
    a few VHOF games:
    Draw 'til U win
    Flush Attack
    Piggy Bankin'
    At first, they were all linked and were doing well popping up at many locations. In the meantime, they came out with House-A-Rockin(Full house bonus 4/5 FH's to active a 200 coin bonus ) and Max Attack(4 of a kind bonus: 1 4ok to activate a 625 coin bonus) both in the 135% range during bonus mode, but they were not as popular.

    Eventually, even some of the regular players including little old ladies would wait whenever they got a 4 card or pat flush. I'm sure you can only imagine the complaints from the people who just wanted to play straight through... especially if you consider the fact that they knew they were feeding everyone else. It's actually the first time I heard the term vulture used, it was a customer complaining about someone sitting there being a vulture. Sandbagger was another one a customer used. Sigma made it so u had to complete the current hand before you were eligible, but That just made it better for the faster more accurate video poker players. The first place I can remember them going to individual non-linked machines was at Boulder and the trend seemed to take off after that in many locations. That didn't seem to last too long, I don't think the customers actually like that, most of them truly liked the fact that other people were contributing sent it would come on much quicker and they would never know when it was going to come on. There were still quite a few linked Banks, I don't think any of the locations in Laughlin ever went individual, but I could be wrong about that.

    4 of my girlfriends all become efficient flush attacks players, two of them weren't even 21 yet. I also hired 2 young chicks that did well. They were super fun to be around, but they were distracting and a big pain in the ass to deal with. I eventually had to cut them loose since I didn't really have the time to continue with them as there were far better things I didn't see them fitting into, and by that time there were not many banks left.
    They unlinked the 8/5 Flush Attacks at the Pioneer in Laughlin in 1999. So we had a 101.8% game with cashback, comp and promotions. And you could still sweep the bank sometimes. It was the only spot they unlinked them in Laughlin.

    Northern Nevada was where all the unlinked Flush Attacks were. At southshore Tahoe the unlinked were at Harrah's, Bill's, Horizon, Caesar's and Lakeside. I could never sweep through all of them in a day. There was also the multitude of big meters running on the video poker games at Harvey's. Harvey's was called the "Meter Capitol of the World." Combined with the advantage slots I did damn good at Tahoe.

    The unlinked were also at MGM/Reno, Verdi, Minden, Elko, Wendover. Minden had the unlinked House A Rockin' too.
    Yeah, I totally forgot about the pioneer even having Flush Attacks. They also had a few sigma bingo Poker machines. IIRC Frankie, his mom, and that crew killed the 4 bank of $1 linked at Gold River by locking it up. I was miffed about that since they also had a small bank of .25 within eyeshot of the $1 bank. Granted there wasn't a ton of action, but There was almost no competition either.
    Stratosphere had 8/6 FA. Jai Alai and a few of his cronies would attempt to play str8 through in the wee hours of the morning hoping people wouldn't jump in and snap them off. Yeah, good luck with that.

    That shit hole western actually had .5 FA at the entrance.

    Boston Pizza actually had 2 flush attacks lol.

  17. #637
    Red Lake, Minnesota
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  18. #638
    nn
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #639
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Harris, Michigan
    Nice picture of U.P. casino. I haven't been there since a backoff about 20 years ago. The fall colors in the U.P. are at peak now. Mickey, or anyone, stop by the Lake of the Clouds for great view of fall colors.

  20. #640
    Walker, Minnesota
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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