Is Rob Singer Jerry Logan? You decide

[mickeycrimm]

I see Rob addressed each and every point. No clients with real names who will go to bat for him? Yep, he addressed that. No industry people who he can use as references for his gambling expertise? Yep, he addressed that, too.

Good job, Mr. Singer. I love you....man.

And no one has ever even nominated him for the Video Poker Hall of Fame.

[Ozzy]

A dozen years ago, 2005, Rob got caught red-handed using a sockpuppet on FREEvpFREE, the free speech arm of vpFREE. And he did it to himself. LOLOLOL!!!!! Rob, posting as rsing1111, was going around and around with the AP's saying the same derogatory bullshit about them then that he says now. A mysterious poster name aceshii showed up on the site and vociferously defended Rob's video poker tactics in several posts. Rob was even carrying on a conversation with the sockpuppet. Everyone recognized aceshii was Rob's sockpuppet and called him out on it. Rob vehemently denied it.

So during the exchange of posts rsing1111 makes a post to someone that says he will be in Las Vegas on the coming Friday. Many more posts were made then someone asked rsing1111 when he would be in Las Vegas. Then aceshii posted "I told you I would be in Las Vegas friday." LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! Then Rob caught his mistake. Thirteen minutes after this post rsing1111 makes a post saying his FREEvpFREE account had somehow got deleted and he borrowed aceshii's account to make the post about being in Las Vegas. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! Rob had got his two personnas tangled up and mistakenly, accidentally or whatever, posted as Rob Singer under aceshii's username. LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! He tried to lie his way out of it but everyone rolled on the floor laughing at the clown.

aceshii quickly disappeared and to this day, 12 years later, has never been heard from again.

IT WAS FUNNY AS HELL!!!!! I'm still ROTFLMAO about it. It's in the FREEvpFREE archives and anyone can check it out.

That's great stuff Mickey!!...Hey Rob, Wise Up...Jackass/Slug.

[AxelWolf]

A dozen years ago, 2005, Rob got caught red-handed using a sockpuppet on FREEvpFREE, the free speech arm of vpFREE. And he did it to himself. LOLOLOL!!!!! Rob, posting as rsing1111, was going around and around with the AP's saying the same derogatory bullshit about them then that he says now. A mysterious poster name aceshii showed up on the site and vociferously defended Rob's video poker tactics in several posts. Rob was even carrying on a conversation with the sockpuppet. Everyone recognized aceshii was Rob's sockpuppet and called him out on it. Rob vehemently denied it.

So during the exchange of posts rsing1111 makes a post to someone that says he will be in Las Vegas on the coming Friday. Many more posts were made then someone asked rsing1111 when he would be in Las Vegas. Then aceshii posted "I told you I would be in Las Vegas friday." LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! Then Rob caught his mistake. Thirteen minutes after this post rsing1111 makes a post saying his FREEvpFREE account had somehow got deleted and he borrowed aceshii's account to make the post about being in Las Vegas. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! Rob had got his two personnas tangled up and mistakenly, accidentally or whatever, posted as Rob Singer under aceshii's username. LOLOLOLOL!!!!!! He tried to lie his way out of it but everyone rolled on the floor laughing at the clown.

aceshii quickly disappeared and to this day, 12 years later, has never been heard from again.

IT WAS FUNNY AS HELL!!!!! I'm still ROTFLMAO about it. It's in the FREEvpFREE archives and anyone can check it out.

Interesting

[mickeycrimm]

Interesting

When posters were accusing aceshii of being a Singer puppet aceshii said he lived on the east coast while Rob lived in Arizona. The followup was the head administrator said that Rob's account had never been deleted. Another administrator checked the IP addresses for Rob and aceshii and they were the same.

[redietz]

I just wanted to make a few comments about the situation here at VCT.

First, let me explain why I'm a bit sensitive to the angle I'm going to mention. If I attempt to bonus hound (or whore, I guess) at various off shore or LV sports book by using friends across the country or down the street to open accounts I can use that are not in my name -- it doesn't work. Eventually I will be found out and called on it. And the reason why is simple. I have a very idiosyncratic betting style and volume that sticks out like a sore thumb.

The usual football betting profile is tilted heavily to NFL. People bet way more on the NFL than college. They also bet more on Sunday night and Monday night standalone games. Well, my percentage of volume bet is 90% college or more, and I bet the least on standalone NFL games. So I basically can't hide or pretend my betting profile is someone else's. The only way a "sock puppet" betting account could rationalize that it isn't me is to suggest they are a disciple of mine (or maybe "enamored," eh?).

Well, the same principles can be applied to posting. If a person recruits other people to post (whether they exist or not is irrelevant) and puts words in their mouth, sometimes there is a tip off. They don't have to actually be keyboard hijackers; they can just be promoting themselves via friends or family scattered about. But tip offs to possible relationships sometimes can be found.

For example, on a gambling forum, most people gamble across a spectrum of games. It's rare to find someone who plays just video poker, or just craps, or just baccarat. Rob, for example, considers himself a video poker expert and really doesn't expound on anything except video poker. That is pretty rare. He studiously avoids saying much of anything regarding games he knows nothing about. He would expose his lack of knowledge.

So if posters were to appear who are in his corner, and those posters fit the same video-poker-only profile as Rob, that could be considered interesting. If, over the course of hundreds of posts, those posters were to also studiously avoid any math mentions and stuck strictly to discussions of video poker and nothing else, that could be construed (as Rob likes to say) as red flags. Or, on the other hand, if a poster shows up on a gambling forum and has nothing much to say about gambling at all in hundreds of posts, and simply goes after the APs, that would also seem very idiosyncratic and possibly Rob-esque.

Such was the case with the aforementioned Jerry Logan. I wasn't a witness to aceshii, but it might be worth a look. Such might be the case with a few posters here.

[Rob.Singer]

Interesting

When posters were accusing aceshii of being a Singer puppet aceshii said he lived on the east coast while Rob lived in Arizona. The followup was the head administrator said that Rob's account had never been deleted. Another administrator checked the IP addresses for Rob and aceshii and they were the same.

Mickey you tell these same crazy stories every few years, and you only tell them because you want them to be true. Most normal people understand that I have never used an alias without identifying I'm doing so, due to sign-in problems. If I write something then I want the credit for it.

By the way, last night Jerry L. said he would come on here and say a few words. He said he enjoyed his days punching out one WoVer after another and when I told him we had drunken lifetime loner/loser mickeycrimm on here, he said he'd be by!

[jbjb]

Interesting

When posters were accusing aceshii of being a Singer puppet aceshii said he lived on the east coast while Rob lived in Arizona. The followup was the head administrator said that Rob's account had never been deleted. Another administrator checked the IP addresses for Rob and aceshii and they were the same.

Mickey you tell these same crazy stories every few years, and you only tell them because you want them to be true. Most normal people understand that I have never used an alias without identifying I'm doing so, due to sign-in problems. If I write something then I want the credit for it.

By the way, last night Jerry L. said he would come on here and say a few words. He said he enjoyed his days punching out one WoVer after another and when I told him we had drunken lifetime loner/loser mickeycrimm on here, he said he'd be by!

He's going to have to post a picture of a valid drivers license/ID with a real picture of him so we can naturally verify is a real person!!

We all know you, I mean he won't though!! :-)

[coach belly]

Such might be the case with a few posters here.

You're beating around the bush about something, if you're more straightforward we may have an opportunity for a bet.

I didn't notice your bus review, I just took you for someone who rides the bus.

How did your keepsakes get to Orange County?

Did you ship them ahead, have them shipped to you when you got there, bring them from Tennessee in your luggage, the trunk of your car, on the bus?

[Alan Mendelson]

Redietz you keep bringing up the math and video poker. Frankly when I learned how to play video poker by following Dancer and Grochowski there really wasn't much math at all for me to learn: I just memorized their "holds." In other words I didn't know the math before and I didn't know it after.

[kewlJ]

By the way, last night Jerry L. said he would come on here and say a few words. He said he enjoyed his days punching out one WoVer after another and when I told him we had drunken lifetime loner/loser mickeycrimm on here, he said he'd be by!

Is THIS really where we and this site are heading? The sickest dude on the internet about to 'hold court' and have conversations with his sock-puppet self? (I used the "mad" emoticon, ONLY because there was not a 'disgusted' or 'vomiting' emoticon available)

Despite that 'sock-puppet' will no doubt be using a concealed or proxy IP, I hope this new low for the site will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and Dan will take action to clean up this pile of garbage.

[redietz]

Redietz you keep bringing up the math and video poker. Frankly when I learned how to play video poker by following Dancer and Grochowski there really wasn't much math at all for me to learn: I just memorized their "holds." In other words I didn't know the math before and I didn't know it after.

The math I'm talking about isn't strategical math, but the math of Rob's claims. He claims to have made a profit playing negative EV games, yet he never mentions number of four of a kinds hit that exceeds expectation or number of royals per how many hands or anything like that. Rob sidesteps the simple math of reporting his statistical results.

[Alan Mendelson]

Jbjb actually has the right idea.

I think if you're going to be part of a forum you have to establish and prove your identity first. That would eliminate at least 95% of the ring-around-the-collar here.

[Alan Mendelson]

Redietz you keep bringing up the math and video poker. Frankly when I learned how to play video poker by following Dancer and Grochowski there really wasn't much math at all for me to learn: I just memorized their "holds." In other words I didn't know the math before and I didn't know it after.

The math I'm talking about isn't strategical math, but the math of Rob's claims. He claims to have made a profit playing negative EV games, yet he never mentions number of four of a kinds hit that exceeds expectation or number of royals per how many hands or anything like that. Rob sidesteps the simple math of reporting his statistical results.

I don't understand why that's important for the win/loss goal part of the strategy I follow. I also don't understand why that's important for any strategy. Dancer didn't mention it in his stuff nor did Grochowski mention it in his Video Poker book.

[redietz]

Dancer mentions when he suffers royal droughts. He always mentions that.

Look, Rob's stuff is voodoo. If he reported his results, it would highlight exactly which hands provided him his alleged profit in a negative EV game.

I'm sure Rob appreciates your efforts to take this thread into some old retread voodoo debate rather than the Jerry Logan embarrassment.

[Alan Mendelson]

He has said it's the quads... hence his special plays that include dropping kickers and breaking up full houses.

If you just want to talk about Jerry Logan don't bring up Rob's math.

[mickeycrimm]

If you just want to talk about Jerry Logan don't bring up Rob's math.

Houston, we have a problem. How can you bring up Rob's math when he doesn't have any?

[Rob.Singer]

Redietz you keep bringing up the math and video poker. Frankly when I learned how to play video poker by following Dancer and Grochowski there really wasn't much math at all for me to learn: I just memorized their "holds." In other words I didn't know the math before and I didn't know it after.

The math I'm talking about isn't strategical math, but the math of Rob's claims. He claims to have made a profit playing negative EV games, yet he never mentions number of four of a kinds hit that exceeds expectation or number of royals per how many hands or anything like that. Rob sidesteps the simple math of reporting his statistical results.

I don't understand why that's important for the win/loss goal part of the strategy I follow. I also don't understand why that's important for any strategy. Dancer didn't mention it in his stuff nor did Grochowski mention it in his Video Poker book.

Alan, thus is just redietz crying like a baby again. He wants to know "the math" of the frequency of the quads. Yet if he knew anything about the strategy he'd figure out that the special plays obviously produce more quads than normal expectation--whether in a +EV or -EV situation, and because the strategy uses win goals, money management, a very large bankroll compared to the required minimum win goal, always going down instead of up in denomination after hitting the mini win goals, special plays that deviate from optimal play, etc. etc., there is absolutely no need at all to keep statistical track of how often anything appears. The only thing that matters is winning money. The neurotic record-keeping means nothing except to people who find it difficult or impossible to win.

Redietz might want to do some comprehensive reading here, if he ever gets interested in learning instead of always whining just because he doesn't like what I've accomplished, and the queasy feeling he can't shake from reading so many of my articles. Here's a hint red: no matter how you scramble the numbers, when you're doing it with a 99.9% machine it'll always show a loser, and when you do it with a 100.1% machine it'll always show a winner. And that's exactly why my strategies deviate in a positive way from the math that the casinos always own. You will never beat them at their own game; but you can beat them with a game of your own if you have the ability to do so. I do. And it is so complex that the critics and "math people" always choose to make false claims just so they don't have to study it. Yes, the lazies will forever say "if it's positive you'll win, and if it's negative then you'll lose". A true cop-out.

[mickeycrimm]

I just want to post what the Wizard said in this thread on his website:

What I think a skeptic would say is maybe JL is such a fan and good friend of RS that he has picked up his key arguments, words, and mannerisms. If you're around someone long enough that will tend to happen, especially if you try. What comes to mind is the episode of Seinfeld where George became so enamored of Elaine's rock-climbing boyfriend that George tried to mimic him in every way he could imagine.

As I've said before, a technical look into this issue was inconclusive. As I recall, when I met Singer I tried to bring up sports betting, but he didn't seem very interested in the topic. Jerry, on the other hand, has posted quite a bit on his NFL picks. Speaking for myself only, I still have a reasonable doubt.

But Rob does have history with sports betting. He didn't want to discuss it with you because he got his ass kicked trying to show everyone what a great NFL handicapper he was. At the LVA Sports forum Rob was telling them all, including Steve Fezzik, that he could beat them all handicapping the NFL.

He used to go around and around with Fezzik. He even had a public debate with Fezzik somewhere in Las Vegas where Fezzik delivered one of the funniest lines to Rob that I ever heard. Rob said that when he hit his win goal at video poker that he cashed out, left the casino, and immediately drove back to his home to Arizona. Fezzik's response was "what do you do, tag the building?" I rolled on the floor laughing.

Rob decided to prove to them all that he could beat NFL lines. He started posting his picks for all NFL games on his website. He quickly developed a losing record. He quit posting his picks not even halfway though the season because it was clear he wasn't going to have a winning record. Then the next year he did it again saying that he just had a bad year the year before. But he quickly developed a losing record again and quit again not halfway though the season.

Since then Rob has been pretty quiet about his football handicapping expertise. That's the real reason Rob doesn't want to talk about football handicapping with you, Alan. On the other hand, his sockpuppet, Jerry Logan will discuss it with you all you want.

[Alan Mendelson]

Mickeycrimm you were referencing The Wizard in the above post, right? I never discussed sports betting with Rob.

[mickeycrimm]

Mickeycrimm you were referencing The Wizard in the above post, right? I never discussed sports betting with Rob.

Sorry, Alan. I thought it was you that wrote that but just reread it and it was the Wizard that made those comments. The Wizard didn't know Rob's posting history at LVA sports or about the NFL picks Rob had put up on his website when he made those comments.