In the screenshot take a look at the 4 out of 7 meter and countdown. This picture was taken when the game was at reset. The meter on the 4 out of 7 starts at $102.50 and runs at 1%. You can see the countdown on 248. When you hit a 4 out of 7 the countdown will drop to 247, hit another one it drops to 246. When you get the countdown down to 1 and hit another one you get the money in the meter.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Why is Rob still allowed to post here?
I don't play this game when the 4 out of 7 countdown is on 248 or 148 or even 48. But when I find the countdown on 7 like below you can bet your ass I will grab a seat. If you run the payscale of the Wizard's keno calculator it will come up 81.33%. The meters are not figured into that number. You can bet up to $2 a game but only have to bet 50 cents to qualify for the meter. The frequency of a 4 out of 7 is 19.14 (check the Wiz's calculator). The cost to play 19.14 games is $1.78 (50 cents X 19.14 X 18.67%) So the cost to hit the 4 out of 7 a total of 7 times is $12.50 and the meter is on $126.75. The game plays at 40 games per minute so this is about a 4 minute play worth $120. Just one of several plays I will put down in a day.
Rob you are about one brain dead dude.
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 09-26-2017 at 08:01 PM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
The 4 out of 7 isn't the only meter I play for in this game. The frequency of 5 out of 7 in 115.76. The cost to play 115.76 games is $10.80 (50 cents X 115.76 X 18.76%). So the average cost to hit the 5 out of 7 a total of 4 times is $43.22. You can see the meter is on $231. This is a 12 minute play worth $190
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Jackpot Rocket is a 94% overall game. You can see the name in the upper right of the screenshots. It still makes money for the house but I make money on the game too when I find it in advantage mode. I didn't know Crystalmath designed this game until I explained it to him. We were trading PM's on WoV and he asked me what games I was exploiting in Montana. I described Jackpot Rocket and that's when he told me he was the developer. He was caught by surprise but did some math and agreed with me that the game was vulturable/exploitable. Anyone can go over to WoV and ask him about the game. I suggest you do that, Robbie Sue and Betty, instead of running your idiot mouths about things you know nothing about.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Here's a 6 out of 7 play on the same game. The frequency of 6 out of 7 is 1326. The average cost to play 1326 games is $124 (50 cents X 1326 X 18.67%). You can see the meter is on $588. This is an average $440 earn for an average half hour seat time.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
When I read this, I was thinking the same thing MC was regarding how M.E. helped develop the Vacation USA slot. That slot game generated a healthy profit for AP's when it first came out, unfortunately, it was simple to figure out and it was a very very low-risk proposition, so it was quickly overrun by some sketchy broke credit hustlers who were fighting over the machines.Originally Posted by blackhole
Slot designers have been making mistakes and design flaws since the beginning of slots.
No real AP is claiming they can beat a slot straight up, as in....just walk up to slot machine start playing and beat it long term. That's probably where the confusion comes in. I assume the slot designers you mentioned think you are talking about some system. They are probably thinking something along the lines watching people dump a bunch of money in and jumping in behind them, or predicting when a progressive jackpot will hit based on how high it is(famous last words, "I have never seen it get over x amount, it's ready/due to hit".)
There have been mistakes made that allowed AP's to beat a slot for a period of time straight up.
In order to beat slots, you must have something extra going on, such as....
1) A progressive. It could be uncapped or a must hit progressive( linked or individual). jbjb, There's nothing wrong with playing an uncapped slot progressive, it would not be much different than playing a VP progressive as they are both uncapped. There are uncapped slot progressives that have shorter average jackpot cycles than a VP Royal cycle, such as Blazing sevens and Double Diamond(let's not forget multiway progressives). Slots are harder to calculate, however, there are ways to get fairly close, sometimes you can even get par sheets. I wouldn't want to play a slot that had a JP cycle in the millions. I have played some slot progressives where the cycle was in the hundreds of thousands.
2) An accumulating bonus feature. That's really just a different type progressive, there are many examples of those type of machines.
3) A community banking bonus feature.
4) Casino promotions or marketing.
Back in the day there was a cheat called a "Monkey's paw."
Is there any new cheat out there to exploit the current generation of slots?
What, Me Worry?
And that's all quite a different story than mickey tells. He wants everyone to believe that he "spotted, then vultured" in a place like Montana (where else?Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen I read this, I was thinking the same thing MC was regarding how M.E. helped develop the Vacation USA slot. That slot game generated a healthy profit for AP's when it first came out, unfortunately, it was simple to figure out and it was a very very low-risk proposition, so it was quickly overrun by some sketchy broke credit hustlers who were fighting over the machines.Originally Posted by blackhole
Slot designers have been making mistakes and design flaws since the beginning of slots.
No real AP is claiming they can beat a slot straight up, as in....just walk up to slot machine start playing and beat it long term. That's probably where the confusion comes in. I assume the slot designers you mentioned think you are talking about some system. They are probably thinking something along the lines watching people dump a bunch of money in and jumping in behind them, or predicting when a progressive jackpot will hit based on how high it is(famous last words, "I have never seen it get over x amount, it's ready/due to hit".)
There have been mistakes made that allowed AP's to beat a slot for a period of time straight up.
In order to beat slots, you must have something extra going on, such as....
1) A progressive. It could be uncapped or a must hit progressive( linked or individual). jbjb, There's nothing wrong with playing an uncapped slot progressive, it would not be much different than playing a VP progressive as they are both uncapped. There are uncapped slot progressives that have shorter average jackpot cycles than a VP Royal cycle, such as Blazing sevens and Double Diamond(let's not forget multiway progressives). Slots are harder to calculate, however, there are ways to get fairly close, sometimes you can even get par sheets. I wouldn't want to play a slot that had a JP cycle in the millions. I have played some slot progressives where the cycle was in the hundreds of thousands.
2) An accumulating bonus feature. That's really just a different type progressive, there are many examples of those type of machines.
3) A community banking bonus feature.
4) Casino promotions or marketing.) something in a machine that the developer, manufacturer, & the entire mathematical review team simply missed in their computerized analyses.
He and his stupid story-telling are products of a lack of an education, along with living a supposed life of gambling while collecting food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare. And as usual, his lies about what he wants to be perceived as doing are laughable. He revels in his poverty-driven lifestyle. He has no past, no present, and no future. The bottle is what defines the poor guy. Alone and without friends or family, the moment he passes no one but the alcohol & tobacco industries will give a sh*t. It will be like he never existed to suck off the government tit.
I think that was Jackpot Rockets(or whatever it's called) he is talking about. I have never seen that game, its only offered in a few states from what I understand. From what I can see there is an advantage to be had, how often it becomes playable, I have no clue. Developers, manufacturers and entire mathematical review teams do miss stuff. I think even you know that to be true, even if you won't admit it. They either don't think about AP's, or they don't think anyone will be able to figure it out, or they just ignore what may happen because they think their idea is worth the risk, especially since the casino will still make money AP's or not.Originally Posted by Rob.Singersomething in a machine that the developer, manufacturer, & the entire mathematical review team simply missed in their computerized analyses.Originally Posted by AxelWolfWhen I read this, I was thinking the same thing MC was regarding how M.E. helped develop the Vacation USA slot. That slot game generated a healthy profit for AP's when it first came out, unfortunately, it was simple to figure out and it was a very very low-risk proposition, so it was quickly overrun by some sketchy broke credit hustlers who were fighting over the machines.Originally Posted by blackhole
Slot designers have been making mistakes and design flaws since the beginning of slots.
No real AP is claiming they can beat a slot straight up, as in....just walk up to slot machine start playing and beat it long term. That's probably where the confusion comes in. I assume the slot designers you mentioned think you are talking about some system. They are probably thinking something along the lines watching people dump a bunch of money in and jumping in behind them, or predicting when a progressive jackpot will hit based on how high it is(famous last words, "I have never seen it get over x amount, it's ready/due to hit".)
There have been mistakes made that allowed AP's to beat a slot for a period of time straight up.
In order to beat slots, you must have something extra going on, such as....
1) A progressive. It could be uncapped or a must hit progressive( linked or individual). jbjb, There's nothing wrong with playing an uncapped slot progressive, it would not be much different than playing a VP progressive as they are both uncapped. There are uncapped slot progressives that have shorter average jackpot cycles than a VP Royal cycle, such as Blazing sevens and Double Diamond(let's not forget multiway progressives). Slots are harder to calculate, however, there are ways to get fairly close, sometimes you can even get par sheets. I wouldn't want to play a slot that had a JP cycle in the millions. I have played some slot progressives where the cycle was in the hundreds of thousands.
2) An accumulating bonus feature. That's really just a different type progressive, there are many examples of those type of machines.
3) A community banking bonus feature.
4) Casino promotions or marketing.
I do find your comment strange considering the fact that you would have us believe that you have a system that NO ONE in the ENTIRE gaming industry will or can confirm. Can you come up with just one credible source that can confirm it? Can you even come u with a credible person that actually believes your system works?
If your system worked it would be extremely valuable and easy to prove, you should have an advantage 24/7 365. If your system really works you should be a multi-millionaire by now, or you are not adept enough to harness its full potential.
Here Singer is trying to expound on something as if he knows what he is talking about. But it's these type of comments by him that show just how truly ignorant he is. He is incredibly dumb when it comes to gambling. The casinos love a guy like this because he serves to keep gamblers dumb. There have been hundreds of games on machines that were exploitable by knowledgeable players but the casinos still make money on those games. And those type games are still being designed today.Originally Posted by Rob.SingerAnd that's all quite a different story than mickey tells. He wants everyone to believe that he "spotted, then vultured" in a place like Montana (where else?
I'm a vulture of those type games. I'll give a simple example of how vulturing works. A five-spot in video keno. It's a $1 bet. The payscale looks like this:
3 out of 5 = $4
4 out of 5 = $25
5 out of 5 = $282
If you run this payscale on the Wiz's calculator it will show 82%. There is a jar up top on the LED screen. Every time you hit 4 out of 5 (frequency 82.7) it puts a coin in the jar. Collect 10 coins and you get a 100 coin bonus. Since the frequency of a 4 out of 5 is 82.7 then collecting 10 coins is on an 827 game cycle. The 100 coins divided by 827 means the add-on to the game for the bonus is 12%. That makes the game an overall 94% payback.
So the expectation for the house is to make $50 for every 827 games played ($827 X 6% = $50).
Since the main game is 82% it means the player is taking an 18% drop to collect coins in the jar. So the average cost to put a coin in the jar is 82.7 X 18% X the $1 bet = $15. The player's cost to put 10 coins in the jar would be $150 and the bonus only pays $100. That's negative expectation gambling at it's finest. The house makes $50 per 827 games played, albeit with some variance.
So how does someone like me make money on a game like this? It's pretty simple really. I won't play unless I find at least 5 coins already banked in the jar. It's a simple matter when walking by the machine to check it if it is not being played to see how many coins are already in the jar. In doing so I will not only find plays with 5 coins in the jar but also 6, 7, 8, and even 9 coins already in the jar. The more coins in the jar the lower my cost to get the $100 bonus.
So who put the coins in the jar like that without completing the play? The ploppies/recreational players do. They do it all the time. Many ploppies will sit down and play, then for whatever reason, they get tired of playing, they run out of money, or they have something else to do, and will get up leaving the play only partially completed. Then I come along, find the play, and play it off. If I find it with 7 coins already in the jar then my expectation is to lose $15 for every time I put a coin in the jar. That's $45 but I will get a $100 bonus so it's an average earn of $55.
The rest of it becomes "how many plays can I get in a day?." If the game is on several machines I may get several plays a day. In which case I'm making some pretty good money.
But no matter what I make the house is still making $50 per every 827 games played. The vulture doesn't take up much seat time so the house goes right on making money off the game from the recreational players.
This is the type of stuff that Rob can't fathom. He has no clue.
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 09-27-2017 at 04:10 AM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
That's because you're making it up, mickey, just like you make up all of your silly stories.
You seem to want people to somehow believe that everyone else "fills the keno machines up" for you to stop by and empty. But if it were that simple and readily convenient, don't you expect that thousands of more intelligent/more educated/more capable people would be out-gunslinging you on thus stuff?
Yes you are so special....but what's special about you is that you are a bum who only talks smack and theory on the internet because you can't afford a real life since you blew it all away years ago. Now, all you are doing is being punished in your declining years, destined to nothing.
Next bs story....
Rob, no matter how hard you try you can't cover up your ignorance and stupidity. The king of the confederacy of dunces.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I don't see where the type of +EV opportunities that Mickey is describing would even be a concern to the developers. They don't affect the overall payout % of the game. They only allow for a period of time where the opportunity for a quick profit is possible and you can tell that by looking at the machine at the countdowns for the keno combos or the number of coins in the jar.
It is that simple but it's not the kind of advantage that is necessarily that regular or reliable enough that that many people are going to drop everything and pursue it as a way of life. But for someone like Mickey who has some math ability to figure out these opportunities, has the time to walk around all these casinos and look for these things, and appears to enjoy it, it's fine. For most people, it's just something that you could keep an eye out for if you were there anyway, and if the right opportunity was there and you wanted to you'd know the math to possibly win a few extra bucks.
One observation I would share on slot advantages is that a lot of it is observation. I often have periods where I am traveling a lot and in the evenings when I am I often go walk around locals where I am if they're nearby and not too sketchy to play, load up on free soft drinks from the self serve stations while I walked if they had them, and to observe. In doing this sometimes I would see, using 2 examples, that certain single machine small progressives would often hit around the same amount, or that play on high limit multi line games seemed to behave similarly to the penny versions of those games rather than the usual high limit versions. These were all very specific machine observations rather than general machine type observations like mickey gives in his examples. I gamble for entertainment but I like having that entertainment either subsidized or paid for by the casino with winnings or free play or other comps. So when the opportunities to play those machines when they were free and/or when the progressives were close to the usual payout amount, I did, and with a little investment of my own money was able to win. In the case of the progressives I won $5K+ twice with no more than $300 invested each time. In the case of the multi-line slot, hours of entertainment, lots of slot points redeemed for future free play (i.e. additional entertainment) and a couple thousand net win in cash over a month or two until they took the machine out. For me this was a limited time opportunity to subsidize my entertainment expense, not an opportunity where I was going to drop everything to stake out the casino every day. But perhaps if I was a local to the area, retired and it was convenient, I may have kept a closer eye out and visited more often to observe so that if possible I could take advantage of all of the opportunities, not just the few that happened to present themselves when I happened to be there, happened to feel like playing that game and happened to notice.
Pkspins summed it up nicely: the casinos don't care because the machine still has its hold/return. Yes, someone is going to win just as someone is going to hit a royal flush on a video poker game with a 99% return.
I have two questions for Mickey:
1. Why aren't you playing video poker which overall has a higher return?
2. Please post some photos where you did pick off these bonus payoffs because your timing was right and the machines were filled up for you.
Thanks.
Hey Mickey, just curious. Do you play the same numbers in keno or do you go random or what?
Take off that stupid mask you big baby.
I had to go though my folders and find some pics. This first pic here has already been posted but I also have a pic of when I snapped off the meter. You can see the countdown on the 5 out of 7 is on 4 and the meter is on $231.15. The countdown for 5 out of 7 starts at 100 so the recreational players drove it all the way down to 4. The meter starts at $165.50 and runs at 1% so the ploppies also hammered the meter up to $231.15.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
By the math the frequency of hitting 5 out of 7 is 115.76 games. Multipy that by 4 and my expectation was to play 463 games to snap off the meter, of course that comes with variance. You could hit them fast or you might get stretched out for a few more cycles than expectation.
If you run the regular payscale on Wiz's keno calculator is will show 81.33%. That means the expectation is to play 463 games at an 18.67% deficit.
463 X 50 cents X 18.67% means the average/expected cost to play it off is $43.22.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
This is the pic where I hit the last 5 out of 7. You can see the meter is on $233.40. That means my action put $2.25 in the meter. It was on $231.15 when I started. Since I know the meter runs at 1% I can calculate how many games it took me to snap the meter off:
Multiply $2.25 by 100 to get $225. Since I was betting 50 cents per game (two quarters) divide 225 by .50 to get 450 games. So I snapped the meter off at about the expected number of games. You can see the credits racked up below the payscale.
If you look closely you will see that I wasn't done with this play. The countdown on the 6 out of 7 was on 1.
Last edited by mickeycrimm; 09-27-2017 at 05:34 PM.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
So how many winners like this do you get in a week? Are there that many players to push up the jackpots?Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
And how much did you put in to hit this? I'm trying to figure your NET PROFIT.
When I snapped off the 5 out of 7 meter I had $295 in credits on the machine. I kept playing to hit the 6 out of 7. By the math the frequency on 6 out of 7 is 1326 games. That puts the average cost to produce a 6 out of 7 at $124. But I ran very rough on this play. I burned almost all of the $295 off. I had about $30 in credits left when I hit it. The meter runs at 3% and was on $548.70 when I started. It ran to $577.95 before I hit it. That means I put $29.25 cents in the meter. And since the meter runs at 3% it means I did $998 in action. So divide that number by .5 and it took me 2000 games to hit it. But I still managed to make an extra $315.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
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