Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 72

Thread: The Wiz and the Challenge

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    395
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Kind of funny....a couple machine AP's, Axel and RS voice express that they have no interest in this kind of competition, as it serves no purpose, and probably is counter-productive to players development. And Alan comes on saying "he thinks it's a great idea....full steam ahead". Shows the difference in mentality between AP's and non AP's. Nothing wrong with that, as Alan is not an AP. It just continues to highlight some of the goofy things he says and does are so out of touch with how AP's think.
    Actually it's just logic. And it's their logic.

    If the APs say that every hand they play at +EV VP gives them an advantage then by all means they should play as fast as they can and as much as they can. In fact, they say they only stop for exhaustion or eating or bathroom breaks. They say since they have an advantage they should keep on playing and keep on playing and keep on playing. Yes, that's exactly what they say. Which is also why they reject win goals and loss limits -- because they have a +EV.

    So that is their logic. I didn't make this up.

    Again, you're new here. You should go back in the archives of this site and read what they wrote. And how they say if they have a +EV game there is no reason to stop. Therefore, the faster they can play the better. It's what they said. And it doesn't take an "AP" to understand what they said.
    Ok, first of all your little "new here" comment is condescending. I may be new here, but I am not new to advantage play (in my 14th years of supporting myself), nor am I new to AP/gambling message boards. AND, I am very familiar with the likes of Axel, RS, Mickey from other sites. I know there is no way these guys or any other serious machine AP every said anything about speed trumping accuracy. That just didn't happen!

    I don't need to go back and read anything said before I started here to know exactly what you are doing because you have done it multiple times in my short time here. You hear what you want to hear and manipulate things said to suit yourself and your predetermined notions. It is repulsive Alan! It is just flat out dishonest!

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    191
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    At first they told me nothing they could do, and when I told them to hold the video, because my attorney would contact them, they relented and paid me.
    Well done!

    So I got my $200 but have not received mail on that account since.
    I guess you'll never know for sure, but South Point seems to non-mail people for any number of possible reasons.

  3. #23
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Kind of funny....a couple machine AP's, Axel and RS voice express that they have no interest in this kind of competition, as it serves no purpose, and probably is counter-productive to players development. And Alan comes on saying "he thinks it's a great idea....full steam ahead". Shows the difference in mentality between AP's and non AP's. Nothing wrong with that, as Alan is not an AP. It just continues to highlight some of the goofy things he says and does are so out of touch with how AP's think.
    Actually it's just logic. And it's their logic.

    If the APs say that every hand they play at +EV VP gives them an advantage then by all means they should play as fast as they can and as much as they can. In fact, they say they only stop for exhaustion or eating or bathroom breaks. They say since they have an advantage they should keep on playing and keep on playing and keep on playing. Yes, that's exactly what they say. Which is also why they reject win goals and loss limits -- because they have a +EV.

    So that is their logic. I didn't make this up.

    Again, you're new here. You should go back in the archives of this site and read what they wrote. And how they say if they have a +EV game there is no reason to stop. Therefore, the faster they can play the better. It's what they said. And it doesn't take an "AP" to understand what they said.
    Ok, first of all your little "new here" comment is condescending. I may be new here, but I am not new to advantage play (in my 14th years of supporting myself), nor am I new to AP/gambling message boards. AND, I am very familiar with the likes of Axel, RS, Mickey from other sites. I know there is no way these guys or any other serious machine AP every said anything about speed trumping accuracy. That just didn't happen!

    I don't need to go back and read anything said before I started here to know exactly what you are doing because you have done it multiple times in my short time here. You hear what you want to hear and manipulate things said to suit yourself and your predetermined notions. It is repulsive Alan! It is just flat out dishonest!
    Actually, you really do need to go back and read what the VP APs said. And they do not include Axel, RS and Mickey. The mantra of the video poker APs is simple and direct: when they have an advantage they keep on playing, and the more they play the more they win, and the faster they play the more they win. That's it. They said it. Not me.

    So again, what took them so long at the WOV to have this contest?
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    395
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    So again, what took them so long at the WOV to have this contest?
    What took so long? There just is no reason. It is meaningless. Proves nothing.

    I actually have an idea what is behind it, but I would be speculating (which isn't beneath me to do), so I am going to try to hold off.

  5. #25
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    I think its interesting. Just how fast can someone play? Why not?

    How about a contest for how many hands of blackjack you can count without an error?

    How about a contest for how many rolls of the dice without a 7?

    Actually, a contest for video poker speed is very valid and again it fits the theory behind playing +EV video poker games.

    You are too closed minded, kewlj. And you also attack me too much.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,401
    I agree with Alan. We've all heard the phase "speed kills" when referring to -EV games. Well the opposite is true for +EV games. Using blackjack as an example, a civilian should play full tables with slow dealers. Card counters, hole carders, trackers, etc., should play with as few players and fast dealers to get as many hands per hour as possible.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    395
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    And you also attack me too much.
    I am sorry, if it seems that way to you, Alan. I try to give everyone the benefit of doubt, and I have honestly tried to do that with you. Time after time, I would tell myself, maybe he isn't being manipulative intentionally. Maybe he is "quirky" and this is just his way. Maybe he is just one of these guys that likes to play "devil's advocate".....to the extreme.

    But it is really more than that. When you manipulate what is said, change what is said to suit yourself an leave out important things said that don't fit your narrative, over and over and over....I can no longer give you the benefit of the doubt. The only conclusion has to be that you are intentionally being manipulative. And while it is harsh to say and you will take offense, there is no other word for this repeated behavior than dishonest.

    And now it's off to work.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,401
    Depending on the game and AP tactic being used, speed will definitely trump accuracy and vice versa.

  9. #29
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    And you also attack me too much.
    I am sorry, if it seems that way to you, Alan. I try to give everyone the benefit of doubt, and I have honestly tried to do that with you. Time after time, I would tell myself, maybe he isn't being manipulative intentionally. Maybe he is "quirky" and this is just his way. Maybe he is just one of these guys that likes to play "devil's advocate".....to the extreme.

    But it is really more than that. When you manipulate what is said, change what is said to suit yourself an leave out important things said that don't fit your narrative, over and over and over....I can no longer give you the benefit of the doubt. The only conclusion has to be that you are intentionally being manipulative. And while it is harsh to say and you will take offense, there is no other word for this repeated behavior than dishonest.

    And now it's off to work.
    I think you have something against the Wizard.

    What the Wizard wrote in his "challenge" is both interesting and valid. He is questioning the super ability reported about Paddock. So he wants to see if anyone else comes close to what is being reported about Paddock. So, why not ask his own forum members? This appears to me to be perfectly rational and valid... as well as interesting.

    You don't like him. He banned you. No wonder you feel the way you do. I think anyone who crosses you is going to get attacked by you, the same way you attacked me only because I challenged your claim that you can count two tables.

    Not everyone agrees with kewlj. Deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Finally, something pretty interesting at WoV.

    Check out his VP speed challenge.
    What is interesting about it?

    As the "shooting" thread veered off topic today, towards discussion of gambling related sites, I made reference to this exact thing. This competitive side of many on these sites. Everything and I mean everything is a "pissing contest". It's like perpetually being stuck in third grade. And Mike takes it to the extreme....the food eating contests come to mind.

    So tell me what benefit there is to this contest? How does anyone benefit by it?

    I want to play as quickly as I can play and still be accurate because.....that is how you maximize profits. Take profits out as this silly contest does and for what? I don't get it....maybe it's me.

    This takes me back to that "goofy" rope climbing contest with Joshua Chan, at the purchase of Woo/wov. Everything a competition? This guy Shackleford must be a real hoot to live with. I can see it now....the dinner challenge in the Shackleford home....first one to finish dinner while riding backwards on a unicycle is king of the Shackleford mountain for the day.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,743
    Quote Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I don't much see the point in someone who's in a "mentoring" position trying to get people to test to see how fast they can play a primarily negative expectation game that's often referred to as "the crack cocaine of gambling." That's like the dude who can handle white lightning prodding you into a drinking contest.

    Really, isn't that the point of most of the free promotional video poker tournaments? To get people conditioned to play fast as hell, and to practice a bit playing fast as hell? It all works out in the casino's favor in the long run.

    So why promote such a thing? It isn't in the best interests of anyone but yourself, if you're showing off, and the casino's best interest as well.

    You know, WoVers can't have it both ways. You shouldn't go raking recreational "ploppies" over the coals (I never use that "ploppies" term) for bad plays while promoting something that's not likely to be good for them.
    For APs, playing fast certainly has its benefits. If you're playing something straight up, you can get more hands in during your 4, 8, or 12 hour shift. Granted, there's the "fatigue" factor, where you might make more mistakes the longer you play, especially at fast speeds. In my experience, it doesn't seem like I'm making any more mistakes near the end of a long session compared to the beginning. If anything I just play a bit slower.

    If you're playing a promotion or need to hit a goal of X and then you're done, then playing fast means you'll be in the casino for less time than a slower player would. A "goal" would be to play until you get X amount of points, win or lose a certain amount, or hit a certain hand (ie: if you get paid extra on a RF or 4oak).

    One problem I see with some players is trying to play so fast it looks like they're flapping their arms or something and it just looks weird. But that's just bad technique.....you don't need to hit the button 10 times, one or two will do.


    I don't think many non-APs are interested in a speed competition, at least, I don't think they should be (but who am I to judge?).
    Okay, here's my argument why this is a bad or irresponsible idea from Shackleford. Yeah, AP's benefit from speed, but realistically how many people who read this stuff on WoV are actual true live-and-breathe AP's? One percent? Two percent? And actual APs don't need any speed coaching, obviously -- they try to max their speed themselves.

    So what's the likely effect of this kind of prioritization of speed and a "speed challenge?" The casinos make more money or less?

    I've seen guys on the old FPDW machines play two machines at extremely high rates, with their head rolling back and forth like Stevie Wonder during a song, but for long, long times. They looked like Rain Man. But this isn't about that. It's about getting people to emphasize speed when the majority of play is on negative expectation machines. Or is somebody going to argue that WoVers, as a group, aren't a negative expectation population? Please....

  11. #31
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    Whoa. It's not actually a speed challenge. It's appears to be more of an examination about the alleged ability of Paddock. Read again what the Wizard wrote:

    I have done four media interviews about the Vegas shooting and one thing that the interviewers seem incredible is my assertion that some highly skilled video poker players can play 1,000 hands per hour accurately, or more. Personally, my speed would impress nobody but I'm also 52 years old.

    What I'm looking is somebody who can at least play close to 1,000 hand per hour (HPH) to establish some kind of record to beat.


    Frankly, had the Wizard said "is it possible Paddock played that quickly? Let's find out," we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  12. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    just want to argue every single thing anyone says.
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Finally, something pretty interesting at WoV.
    Quote Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    What is interesting about it?
    LOL...what a fucking tool...tewlJ

  13. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    395
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I think anyone who crosses you is going to get attacked by you, the same way you attacked me only because I challenged your claim that you can count two tables.

    Not everyone agrees with kewlj. Deal with it.
    Nope, that’s not it at all. Whether or not you think I can track two tables is irrelevant to me. It really is. Always was. It just so happens that ongoing challenge happened to be where I first encountered how you manipulate everything. Unfortunately that characteristic or trait of your has manifested itself numerous times, concerning different subject matter, since.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post

    I think you have something against the Wizard.

    You don't like him. He banned you. No wonder you feel the way you do.
    You are correct, I do have something against Mike. But, saying that I don’t like him is inaccurate. I admire and envy his mathematical ability. I greatly admire the path he chose. Mike was a nerdy, math guy in a very safe government job. He was very much of a stereotype. The kind of people that never leave those safe jobs. They put in their 30 years and safely retire. Mike had the ‘ballz’ to break from that mold and follow his passion and dreams and I admire the hell out of him for that. I think he kind of lucked out, into the final success that he had in the end, but that’s great. He took the chance and was rewarded. I am sincerely happy for him in that regard.

    Yes, Mike banned me from Wov. But my negative feeling toward him are not the result of him banning me. Sure I was pissed, but I am long over that part of it......mostly. Since you may not know the circumstances, I will fill you in….and you know what….I will be criticized for bring this up again…..but I don’t care.

    I’ve honestly come to believe that Mike was a victim. He was used. Mike was manipulated by a bully that he thought was his friend and Mike made a poor decision to get in the middle of something he had no business getting involved in. I don’t hold a grudge concerning poor judgment. I exhibit poor judgment all the time. I try to learn from mistakes, make amends if need be, and move on.

    Where I continue to have a problem was with what happened afterwards. Almost immediately in private conversations, Mike admitted he was wrong, numerous times. But he couldn’t bring himself to admit that publicly, coming up with a completely dishonest story instead.

    So during this time just after he banned me, and that I was communicating privately with Mike, I also had several members of Wov, friends of Mike’s telling me that “Mike was trying to figure a way to bring me back”. This was bizarre....all he had to do was be honest and say, I made a mistake and should not have gotten involved. He could not bring himself to do that. He cared too much that this somehow would diminish what his members thought of him, when in reality the complete opposite was true. Most people don’t hold it against anyone for making, admitting and fixing a mistake. That is an admirable quality.

    Over a year, I waited and waited for Mike to do the right thing, and yes, I was pretty harshly criticizing him, while I waited. But, he never could bring himself to do so. He stuck to his fabricated story. Finally, I had no choice but to publicly post some of his private messages with his many contradictions, including how he admitted he should not have banned me. He forced me to be the bad guy, releasing private messages, because he was too weak, too small of a man, to admit publicly what he told me privately.

    So yes, I continue to have very little respect for Michael Shackleford at this point in time.

    And here’s another odd little tidbit, that I have never shared before. Remember earlier, when I said I have come to believe Mike was the victim, that he was used, that he was manipulated? The first time I posted that, on another site, I was immediately advised by one of Mike’s “friends”, that I should not repeat that thought. That Mike wouldn’t take kindly to a suggestion that he had been “used” and manipulated, as it made him look weak. This completely exemplifies what the whole aftermath of this incident was about. Mike being more concerned with his image and what people think, than fixing what he knew and admitted was wrong-doing on his part.

    Now watch as the Wov-ers spit fire at me.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 10-12-2017 at 02:04 PM.

  14. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,206
    Alan, first of all, you don't have the best reputation when it comes to understanding advantage play. You really like to twist shit around when you don't understand something but somehow think you do.

    Yes, if you have an advantage and the play is within your risk tolerance and EV thresholds, then you should play.

    My comments about playing faster and giving up EV on mistakes is dependent on the advantage you're getting and how the play works overall (is it time-sensitive or is it win/loss or coin-in based?). If you're playing something with a 1% advantage, then you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot if you play faster and give up 0.5% in EV for playing faster (say, 800 HPH vs 1000 HPH). In one case, you'll profit 8 units per hour, for example, and the other you'll profit 5. If you have something with a 10% advantage, then you'll either profit 80 units or 95 units (at 800 HPH playing perfectly vs 1000 HPH giving up 0.5%).

  15. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Alan, first of all, you don't have the best reputation when it comes to understanding advantage play. You really like to twist shit around when you don't understand something but somehow think you do.

    Yes, if you have an advantage and the play is within your risk tolerance and EV thresholds, then you should play.

    My comments about playing faster and giving up EV on mistakes is dependent on the advantage you're getting and how the play works overall (is it time-sensitive or is it win/loss or coin-in based?). If you're playing something with a 1% advantage, then you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot if you play faster and give up 0.5% in EV for playing faster (say, 800 HPH vs 1000 HPH). In one case, you'll profit 8 units per hour, for example, and the other you'll profit 5. If you have something with a 10% advantage, then you'll either profit 80 units or 95 units (at 800 HPH playing perfectly vs 1000 HPH giving up 0.5%).
    Or in having any integrity

  16. #36
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    Don't make this about me. The Wizard has proposed a worthwhile project. I wish him luck.

    Those of you who think he's wrong should be posting that on the WOV.

    Be my guest.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  17. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Don't make this about me. The Wizard has proposed a worthwhile project. I wish him luck.

    Those of you who think he's wrong should be posting that on the WOV.

    Be my guest.
    They probably can't due to being banned from there.

    Who really cares either way? We know damn well the only reason KJ cares is the fact that he has a problem with Mike. Who was it that made the comment about him and his familly at the dinner table?

  18. #38
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    Quote Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Don't make this about me. The Wizard has proposed a worthwhile project. I wish him luck.

    Those of you who think he's wrong should be posting that on the WOV.

    Be my guest.
    They probably can't due to being banned from there.

    Who really cares either way? We know damn well the only reason KJ cares is the fact that he has a problem with Mike. Who was it that made the comment about him and his familly at the dinner table?
    Please Axel, kewlj will say you have something against APs.
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

  19. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    204
    Alan, you've apparently planted yourself firmly in the memory banks of many WoVers.

    Note that the poll associated with the thread has as the most popular choice the following: "How about a record for throwing consecutive yo's."
    What, Me Worry?

  20. #40
    Original Founder
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    14,913
    I guess the next time I post a poll I could have the option "ask forum members to donate to keep me in business."
    Alan Mendelson
    www.AlanBestBuys.com
    "(Alan) simply can't get past a die having six sides." -- Michael Shackleford May 12, 2015

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Singer Challenge
    By redietz in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 06-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  2. Fact-Checking The Fedomalley Challenge
    By Rob.Singer in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-29-2011, 01:54 PM
  3. Compare THIS Challenge To The Fedomalley Challenge
    By Rob.Singer in forum Las Vegas
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-29-2011, 11:35 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-22-2011, 12:33 AM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-13-2011, 10:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •