The Genealogy Thread

[Deech]

I applied for and started getting payments recently. I am getting my 4th monthly check/deposite in a little over 2 weeks.

I did it all over the phone in a 5 minute conversation with somene at SS. I didnt have to present a birth certificate. I didnt have to present or fax or email anything.

this process was the antithesis of the steriotypical red tape that people cry about with govt agencies.

Not only did they do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner(I applied 2 months before by phone with a person at a local office that called me back ...i had to make an appointment for the phone enrolment)...but they sent me a summary of my four 401k plans so I could manage my finances. Of course I didnt need that info...I know exactly whats in my accounts....but it was a nice touch.

I took it early at 62.......I could have waited and got more money...but screw it.....I will take what I can when i can get it.

But no....they didnt need any documents. They had all they needed in their computer system.

Maybe they just like fucking with Alan.

Using modern sensibilities........it shouldnt shock a 30 or 40 something SS worker to see people with way different names than their mother or father.(ALTHOUGH back in my day..it was very rare, and often scandalous )

What is the $$$ difference between waiting until you are 65 or 67, if you don`t mind my asking?

If LarryS does not mind I will give some input as I am going through this issue myself.

Regarding Social Security, the minimum age is 62 (without waivers) and the maximum benefit age to collect is 70. You can start to collect after 70 but you will not gain any additional benefit (and actually lose money because you did not start at 70).

The Full Retirement Age (FRA) is roughly 66 1/2 years. The amount you can collect does increase every year between 62 and 70. Using the Social Security website; if you were to receive $1,300 /month at FRA, the minimum amount at age 62 is less 26.7% or roughly $953/month. If you wait until 70, the maximum is an additional above FRA by 29% which is roughly $1,681/month.

To answer your question, at 65 the amount is $1,184/month (less 9%) from FRA. At 67 the amount is $1,369/month (5.3% increase)

The amount a person can receive from Social Security is based on an individual's top 35 wage earning years (or so).

From a gambling perspective; for males the breakeven point of collecting at 66 1/2 versus 62 is roughly age 79. Between 70 and 62 it is just over 80 years old. For women it is slightly higher.

Final note (thought), some individuals will take the money at age 62 due to finance or health (based on the numbers above). Those who think that taking Social security money early saves them from withdrawing 401K money (for me that would be true) what is the new breakeven point on that non withdrawal at 5% (taking money at age 62)? It jumps up to age 91.

The rules are constantly changing. It is fun to play with the numbers. Obviously, there is no single correct answer on when to withdraw your money, as long as you start by age 70.

[Keystone]

I applied for and started getting payments recently. I am getting my 4th monthly check/deposite in a little over 2 weeks.

I did it all over the phone in a 5 minute conversation with somene at SS. I didnt have to present a birth certificate. I didnt have to present or fax or email anything.

this process was the antithesis of the steriotypical red tape that people cry about with govt agencies.

Not only did they do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner(I applied 2 months before by phone with a person at a local office that called me back ...i had to make an appointment for the phone enrolment)...but they sent me a summary of my four 401k plans so I could manage my finances. Of course I didnt need that info...I know exactly whats in my accounts....but it was a nice touch.

I took it early at 62.......I could have waited and got more money...but screw it.....I will take what I can when i can get it.

But no....they didnt need any documents. They had all they needed in their computer system.

Maybe they just like fucking with Alan.

Using modern sensibilities........it shouldnt shock a 30 or 40 something SS worker to see people with way different names than their mother or father.(ALTHOUGH back in my day..it was very rare, and often scandalous )

What is the $$$ difference between waiting until you are 65 or 67, if you don`t mind my asking?

If LarryS does not mind I will give some input as I am going through this issue myself.

Regarding Social Security, the minimum age is 62 (without waivers) and the maximum benefit age to collect is 70. You can start to collect after 70 but you will not gain any additional benefit (and actually lose money because you did not start at 70).

The Full Retirement Age (FRA) is roughly 66 1/2 years. The amount you can collect does increase every year between 62 and 70. Using the Social Security website; if you were to receive $1,300 /month at FRA, the minimum amount at age 62 is less 26.7% or roughly $953/month. If you wait until 70, the maximum is an additional above FRA by 29% which is roughly $1,681/month.

To answer your question, at 65 the amount is $1,184/month (less 9%) from FRA. At 67 the amount is $1,369/month (5.3% increase)

The amount a person can receive from Social Security is based on an individual's top 35 wage earning years (or so).

From a gambling perspective; for males the breakeven point of collecting at 66 1/2 versus 62 is roughly age 79. Between 70 and 62 it is just over 80 years old. For women it is slightly higher.

Final note (thought), some individuals will take the money at age 62 due to finance or health (based on the numbers above). Those who think that taking Social security money early saves them from withdrawing 401K money (for me that would be true) what is the new breakeven point on that non withdrawal at 5% (taking money at age 62)? It jumps up to age 91.

The rules are constantly changing. It is fun to play with the numbers. Obviously, there is no single correct answer on when to withdraw your money, as long as you start by age 70.

Good info, thank you

[Rob.Singer]

I applied for and started getting payments recently. I am getting my 4th monthly check/deposite in a little over 2 weeks.

I did it all over the phone in a 5 minute conversation with somene at SS. I didnt have to present a birth certificate. I didnt have to present or fax or email anything.

this process was the antithesis of the steriotypical red tape that people cry about with govt agencies.

Not only did they do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner(I applied 2 months before by phone with a person at a local office that called me back ...i had to make an appointment for the phone enrolment)...but they sent me a summary of my four 401k plans so I could manage my finances. Of course I didnt need that info...I know exactly whats in my accounts....but it was a nice touch.

I took it early at 62.......I could have waited and got more money...but screw it.....I will take what I can when i can get it.

But no....they didnt need any documents. They had all they needed in their computer system.

Maybe they just like fucking with Alan.

Using modern sensibilities........it shouldnt shock a 30 or 40 something SS worker to see people with way different names than their mother or father.(ALTHOUGH back in my day..it was very rare, and often scandalous )

What is the $$$ difference between waiting until you are 65 or 67, if you don`t mind my asking?

If LarryS does not mind I will give some input as I am going through this issue myself.

Regarding Social Security, the minimum age is 62 (without waivers) and the maximum benefit age to collect is 70. You can start to collect after 70 but you will not gain any additional benefit (and actually lose money because you did not start at 70).

The Full Retirement Age (FRA) is roughly 66 1/2 years. The amount you can collect does increase every year between 62 and 70. Using the Social Security website; if you were to receive $1,300 /month at FRA, the minimum amount at age 62 is less 26.7% or roughly $953/month. If you wait until 70, the maximum is an additional above FRA by 29% which is roughly $1,681/month.

To answer your question, at 65 the amount is $1,184/month (less 9%) from FRA. At 67 the amount is $1,369/month (5.3% increase)

The amount a person can receive from Social Security is based on an individual's top 35 wage earning years (or so).

From a gambling perspective; for males the breakeven point of collecting at 66 1/2 versus 62 is roughly age 79. Between 70 and 62 it is just over 80 years old. For women it is slightly higher.

Final note (thought), some individuals will take the money at age 62 due to finance or health (based on the numbers above). Those who think that taking Social security money early saves them from withdrawing 401K money (for me that would be true) what is the new breakeven point on that non withdrawal at 5% (taking money at age 62)? It jumps up to age 91.

The rules are constantly changing. It is fun to play with the numbers. Obviously, there is no single correct answer on when to withdraw your money, as long as you start by age 70.

It's a big financial error not to wait until full retirement age. If you took it early then you don't expect to live that long....or, you didn't plan your retirement income properly. There is no "advantage play" that's better than waiting.

[mickeycrimm]

Rob, I found your late Uncle Louigi in the old country. He was a military man. He drove the vaseline truck during the War.

[MisterV]

We all should take Social Security when it is offered, and most do.

My mom was a Social Security claims rep in South Philly; she processed the application for a Mafia boss, IIRC it was Angelo Bruno.

Hey, if the Feds want to give you money, take it; doesn't matter who you are.

[Alan Mendelson]

You have to do the math on Social Security. Sometimes you'll collect more money over your lifetime if you take it a couple years before full retirement age.

[dannyj]

I applied for and started getting payments recently. I am getting my 4th monthly check/deposite in a little over 2 weeks.

I did it all over the phone in a 5 minute conversation with somene at SS. I didnt have to present a birth certificate. I didnt have to present or fax or email anything.

this process was the antithesis of the steriotypical red tape that people cry about with govt agencies.

Not only did they do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner(I applied 2 months before by phone with a person at a local office that called me back ...i had to make an appointment for the phone enrolment)...but they sent me a summary of my four 401k plans so I could manage my finances. Of course I didnt need that info...I know exactly whats in my accounts....but it was a nice touch.

I took it early at 62.......I could have waited and got more money...but screw it.....I will take what I can when i can get it.

But no....they didnt need any documents. They had all they needed in their computer system.

Maybe they just like fucking with Alan.

Using modern sensibilities........it shouldnt shock a 30 or 40 something SS worker to see people with way different names than their mother or father.(ALTHOUGH back in my day..it was very rare, and often scandalous )

What is the $$$ difference between waiting until you are 65 or 67, if you don`t mind my asking?

If LarryS does not mind I will give some input as I am going through this issue myself.

Regarding Social Security, the minimum age is 62 (without waivers) and the maximum benefit age to collect is 70. You can start to collect after 70 but you will not gain any additional benefit (and actually lose money because you did not start at 70).

The Full Retirement Age (FRA) is roughly 66 1/2 years. The amount you can collect does increase every year between 62 and 70. Using the Social Security website; if you were to receive $1,300 /month at FRA, the minimum amount at age 62 is less 26.7% or roughly $953/month. If you wait until 70, the maximum is an additional above FRA by 29% which is roughly $1,681/month.

To answer your question, at 65 the amount is $1,184/month (less 9%) from FRA. At 67 the amount is $1,369/month (5.3% increase)

The amount a person can receive from Social Security is based on an individual's top 35 wage earning years (or so).

From a gambling perspective; for males the breakeven point of collecting at 66 1/2 versus 62 is roughly age 79. Between 70 and 62 it is just over 80 years old. For women it is slightly higher.

Final note (thought), some individuals will take the money at age 62 due to finance or health (based on the numbers above). Those who think that taking Social security money early saves them from withdrawing 401K money (for me that would be true) what is the new breakeven point on that non withdrawal at 5% (taking money at age 62)? It jumps up to age 91.

The rules are constantly changing. It is fun to play with the numbers. Obviously, there is no single correct answer on when to withdraw your money, as long as you start by age 70.

Good info Deech
I still have a half dozen years before I can start taking it early, which is what I plan to do. For me it just seems to not make sense to wait due to that catch up / break even point of what, 17 years? And isn’t it true that pushing collection back just by months let alone years will increase your payments? Lastly, should one (younger than you) consider SSA solvency when making the decision to collect early?

[regnis]

I worked for a wealthy guy years ago that refused to take social security at all. He felt it was unfair for someone of his wealth to take it.

I strongly disagree and will take it as soon as I can.

[dannyj]

Regnis - Fair or not due to solvency issues many think means testing will come into play in about 20 years.

[Rob.Singer]

You have to do the math on Social Security. Sometimes you'll collect more money over your lifetime if you take it a couple years before full retirement age.

Yes and no. For people with health and/or financial issues, taking it before FRA is the best and only option. For people who expect to live to 85 or beyond, taking it early is a huge miscalculation. Huge.

It's like big-mouth Dancer constantly blabbing in his articles about his "wealth" and all those "edges" he claims to exploit. The his marriage crumbles before his eyes because it's only so long before someone as despicable as that can fool his spouse. In one slick move she wiped that smirk off his face, the so-called "wealth" from his pockets, and all those fabulous "edges" he claimed to have had over the years.

Similarly, one of the true "edges" we get offered in life is in waiting to start collecting SS benefits....if you worked, that is, which isn't the prevailing activity among free handout-loving "AP's". It's pretty simple: you wait/you get a ton of extra money in the "long-term". However, aside from health concerns (which most people bring upon themselves thru poor living/eating/drinking/exercise habits) a great majority of the working population very poorly plan for their retirement years--which I strongly suspect is a BIG issue in the gambling community.

So all this talk about finding some stupid play with a "theoretical" of "$500/day", staying at shithole roadside motels alone to save a buck, manipulating online deals illegally, etc. etc. etc....being "advantage" plays---this stuff ain't got nothing on what's REALLY out there for those who aren't ignorant or stupid.

[slingshot]

I worked an extra year till FRA. A friend of the family who sucked down cigarettes and made excuses not to go to doctor took his early. Also, family has tobe taken in. Be nice if they would replace all money stolen from SS.

[LarryS]

We all should take Social Security when it is offered, and most do.

My mom was a Social Security claims rep in South Philly; she processed the application for a Mafia boss, IIRC it was Angelo Bruno.

Hey, if the Feds want to give you money, take it; doesn't matter who you are.

It is very simple math.
Using round numbers
Over the next 4 years I will collect 100k in SS.
If I wait 4 years, I can get approx 600 more per month but I wouldnt have 100k in the bank.

So if I didnt collect the 100 k ... over the next 10 years from age 66-76 I would have gotten an extra 7k per year. which means that it would take 14 years for me to hit the 100k mark of extra money to make up for the 100k that i would forgo by waiting. Thats around age 80 that I start to get the benefit of waiting. But wait. What if that 100 k collected over the first 4 years of early retirement was working for me....and over that 10 year period in a very conservative investment vehicle....it turns to 135k. Well then I am at 85 before I start to bathe in the benefits of waiting the extra 4 years. WTF. Of course the govt wants you to take the sucker bet and wait and wait and wait. But anyone that can average 7 percent yearly increase on their investment will double their money in 10-11 years. In my example I am just looking at a 35 percent increase over 10 years which is more like 3 percent yearly increase.

I dont need the money, but I would rather have it in my hands, investing it as i wish, than in the hands of the govt.

life expectancy for en in the USA is 76. If i live the average lifespan, waiting 4 years for SS is a sucker bet. Even if I live 6 years beyond the average....its still a break even proposition

Anyone who expects to live past 80.....good luck to you. Its a nice goal .....but once your body starts to break down.....there is no stopping mother nature. And at that point, whether you get 600 extra dollars a month wont make much difference.

[regnis]

you need to consider taxes in this analysis. After taxes, the break even is shorter.

[LarryS]

true, but as i would have less to invest than the 100k than I first used in the example for the firsr 4 years of income from ss......the extra 600 is taxed also and offsets the extra 100k(or 80k after taxes) slower as well. In the end its better to have the monet to invest as you please...even conservatively.

[Rob.Singer]

It's all justification for taking the money early because you have to. When you go to any knowledgeable financial advisor they will always, again, barring illness or a bad financial position, tell you it's a big mistake if you don't wait. Of course there's all kinds of differing situations out there, but simply taking early SS just because you want it in your hands instead of the govt's, in very unwise. And if you're healthy, why wouldn't you expect to live to at least 85 or 90 or even more? Especially baby boomers, who are the first generation to understand you can do something about living longer.

[Alan Mendelson]

Before you delay social security consider the "opportunity cost" of not using the money now and consider the "future value" of the money you are delaying.

[quahaug]

Doesn't current income play a role in how much you can collect? I thought there was a income limit above which your benefit gets reduced.

[Rob.Singer]

Doesn't current income play a role in how much you can collect? I thought there was a income limit above which your benefit gets reduced.

Yes it does....for the stiffs that still have to work to make ends meet in old age.

Ask Dancer for details on what it's like.

[LarryS]

It's all justification for taking the money early because you have to. When you go to any knowledgeable financial advisor they will always, again, barring illness or a bad financial position, tell you it's a big mistake if you don't wait. Of course there's all kinds of differing situations out there, but simply taking early SS just because you want it in your hands instead of the govt's, in very unwise. And if you're healthy, why wouldn't you expect to live to at least 85 or 90 or even more? Especially baby boomers, who are the first generation to understand you can do something about living longer.

thats another lie Its because I can do more with80-100 k than the govt can. The govt is not good at "investing". They are not good at holding my money.

they want people like you that have no investing discipline to let them keep your money as long as they can. The system is bankrupt...of course they want everyone to wait as long as they can, and maybe they will drop dead.

People like you who dont have a clue about investing and are prone to get shafted in investment scams are the ones that cry that its better for the govt to keep your money as long as they can.

I can see your point.

but for the average joe, with average investing skills......more likely then not before they die at age 76(on average) they will have come out ahead by taking the money early.

especially if they didnt need it to live.

[mickeycrimm]

Doesn't current income play a role in how much you can collect? I thought there was a income limit above which your benefit gets reduced.

Yes it does....for the stiffs that still have to work to make ends meet in old age.

Ask Dancer for details on what it's like.

And Warren Buffet too....or maybe T. Boone Pickens.