The final word on proving Dice Influencing

[LarryS]

again what would a single session of meeting with a great successful DI mean. Every person that randomly throws dice can have a great day, or a bad day. And same for DI;s. So what can be extrapolated from a single meeting,
Too many people extrapolate their 3-4 anecdotal observations into some sort of wide sweeping unwavering vote of confidence

Can someone who sets dice have a good day, or even a good few months in a row. Sure. But can they have a bad few months in a row??,,,my guess is YES.
And thats where the real truth is found. After a period of years...what are the net gains of the person claiming to be successful. And unfortunately these people do not come to message boards and tell us when they have had a bad run. They only come here and brag about the glory days they have had.

[MisterV]

While I cannot speak for Alan, I can "guess" what he's looking for: a soft, consistent throw, very little movement once they land, the dice staying on axis.

[LarryS]

if he is not looking for consistent financial results over the long run....whats the point of a soft throw on axis.A soft throw on axis without consistent profit results is as impressive as a person who claims to have the biggest beanie baby collection or a limber guy who claims he can suck his own dick.

[Alan Mendelson]

The whole idea is that the soft throw keeping the dice on axis helps you to avoid the seven after a point is established according to your set OR the soft throw helps you maximize the chances of a seven if that is what you want from the set you choose.

Of course the goal is to make money and not just have a soft throw.

[MisterV]

LarryS., a soft throw with an easy landing will not impart much kinetic energy into dem bones, so they'll be less likely to tumble and roll off axis.

That's the theory, anyway.

Were I to see a DI consistently throwing the way I describe I'd be inclined to bet more on him than on an average roller.

[LarryS]

i would only bet more if I saw someone consistently getting results that I seek. I wouldnt care how he throws the dice or how impressive the throw appears.

a soft throwing on axis thrower can have a bad day just as easily as a guy that whips the dice hard down the table.

there are some people with superstition that they should increase bets when a person with a vagina throws, there are some with the superstition to take bets down when dice fly off the table. And there are some with the superstition to bet more when someone appears to be soft throwing.

But for me the person with the vagina, and the soft thrower first need to make me money, before I increase my bets.

I remember once in atlantic city years ago, the dice got passed to a young black dude, and a woman standing in back of her husband tells him to increase the bets because he "looked like he knew what he was doing",...he did,,,,and he lost fast

skin pigmentation, estrogen, soft tossing.....all welcome at my table....but the increase of bets with those folks occurs based on results.

[mickeycrimm]

i would only bet more if I saw someone consistently getting results that I seek. I wouldnt care how he throws the dice or how impressive the throw appears.

a soft throwing on axis thrower can have a bad day just as easily as a guy that whips the dice hard down the table.

there are some people with superstition that they should increase bets when a person with a vagina throws, there are some with the superstition to take bets down when dice fly off the table. And there are some with the superstition to bet more when someone appears to be soft throwing.

But for me the person with the vagina, and the soft thrower first need to make me money, before I increase my bets.

I remember once in atlantic city years ago, the dice got passed to a young black dude, and a woman standing in back of her husband tells him to increase the bets because he "looked like he knew what he was doing",...he did,,,,and he lost fast

skin pigmentation, estrogen, soft tossing.....all welcome at my table....but the increase of bets with those folks occurs based on results.

Dice don't have memories.

[LarryS]

Mr V..I think there can only be 2 reasons why casinos dont prohibit Dice setting

1- through observation and their own research they find DI to be an impossibility on a regular basis. They have seen winning and losing days from the 3 wise men and the like and see zero advantage. .

2-The casinos feel that mastering DI is an improbability for 99,9 percent who try. Maybe there are 10 real DI's i the world, and they are willing to lose money to them, as long as they get the tens of thousands of wannabe DI;s that pay for seminars, books, and read articles on the internet....those folks that think they can master it and never will. Those folks that take a seminar or buy a book and run out and think that have things figured out.

So if there are just a handful of these DI savants out there in the world. What are the chances of me being at the table with one in reno, or in oregon, or in michigan..or anywhere for that matter..... tiny percent. Most likely I would be in the company of one of the 99.9 percent wannabes

And if #1 is true...then its zero percent that I will run into a successful DI.

casinos are not stupid. They have all the info they need at their fingertips. And they have the money to get that info. And in my opinion if they thought DI was a practical learned trade....they would outlaw setting.

[Alan Mendelson]

Larry I like #2. Maybe there are only ten real DIs in the world.

[Travis McGee]

Never read Sharpshooter's book? It's the natural arc swing of left to right.

Alan M, Sharpshooter's book is wrong. Sharpshooter (Chris Pawlicki) has a background in math and physics and his application is theory only. He tried to improve what Yuri Kononenko wrote about, but Sharpshooter messed it up. If you and others try to follow his throw, you are doing it inefficiently (nice way of saying wrong). That is why Sharpshooter is no longer playing craps. Sharpshooter really never could play craps for a living and left the business altogether for over a decade.

This is Sharpshooter's theory:


Here is a Slow motion video of throwing the dice from SL1 that demonstrates that less than 3% of all dice stay on axis (basically random). So why are you trying to do something that is nearly impossible, given the parameters that most casinos make you operate within (back wall pyramids, no sliding, square dice, etc.):

While I cannot speak for Alan, I can "guess" what he's looking for: a soft, consistent throw, very little movement once they land, the dice staying on axis.

Theory only, not probable the way you are describing.

The whole idea is that the soft throw keeping the dice on axis helps you to avoid the seven after a point is established according to your set OR the soft throw helps you maximize the chances of a seven if that is what you want from the set you choose.

Your approach is not practical.

LarryS., a soft throw with an easy landing will not impart much kinetic energy into dem bones, so they'll be less likely to tumble and roll off axis.

That's the theory, anyway.

Were I to see a DI consistently throwing the way I describe I'd be inclined to bet more on him than on an average roller.

Why? Rarely will you see anyone throw the dice through the air as nicely as in the video. I have seen 2 people in live casino action throw that well through the air and I play craps most every week into 2 decades now. Again, why would you bet on theory that in reality will stay on axis less than 3%. There is a better way.

[Alan Mendelson]

You say there's a better way. Okay show me. Anytime and any Vegas Casino.

By the way the three guys I saw had throws that were better than in your video. They gently reached the back wall and died.

[mickeycrimm]

I read Scoblete's book on DI. He's a great writer and just about had me convinced DI worked. In this book he wrote about the classes they held to teach DI. In order to teach it they had to advertise for customers, buy craps tables, and rent space to hold these classes. They got a pretty good price from players who took the course. I have some questions:

Why would you spend time, and invest money, teaching it when all you have to do is walk up to a craps table and make money? It would seem to me there would be more money made playing the game than teaching it.

Why would you blow your own gig out of the water by exposing it to the masses where, if it truly worked, the casinos would have to take countermeasures to prevent it?

Is it really possible today with most casinos going with these bouncy tables?

[regnis]

Alan M, Sharpshooter's book is wrong. Sharpshooter (Chris Pawlicki) has a background in math and physics and his application is theory only. He tried to improve what Yuri Kononenko wrote about, but Sharpshooter messed it up. If you and others try to follow his throw, you are doing it inefficiently (nice way of saying wrong). That is why Sharpshooter is no longer playing craps. Sharpshooter really never could play craps for a living and left the business altogether for over a decade.

This is Sharpshooter's theory:


Here is a Slow motion video of throwing the dice from SL1 that demonstrates that less than 3% of all dice stay on axis (basically random). So why are you trying to do something that is nearly impossible, given the parameters that most casinos make you operate within (back wall pyramids, no sliding, square dice, etc.):




Theory only, not probable the way you are describing.

The whole idea is that the soft throw keeping the dice on axis helps you to avoid the seven after a point is established according to your set OR the soft throw helps you maximize the chances of a seven if that is what you want from the set you choose.

Your approach is not practical.

LarryS., a soft throw with an easy landing will not impart much kinetic energy into dem bones, so they'll be less likely to tumble and roll off axis.

That's the theory, anyway.

Were I to see a DI consistently throwing the way I describe I'd be inclined to bet more on him than on an average roller.

Why? Rarely will you see anyone throw the dice through the air as nicely as in the video. I have seen 2 people in live casino action throw that well through the air and I play craps most every week into 2 decades now. Again, why would you bet on theory that in reality will stay on axis less than 3%. There is a better way.

To me, each of those throws was a failure. While the throw itself was nice, there was much too much spinning action after hitting the wall indicating no control at all. That is why I never used the back hand back spin roll. I wanted the dice to either hit the base of the wall and stop or hit square and bounce gently back without any sideways spin. In the video, the dice spin every which way after hitting the wall. That is also why I threw towards the corner rather than straight down the middle. The carom off the wall was a little more true.

[MisterV]

There is a better way.

Sure, and you and your buddy koganinja are charging $933 to learn about it.

I googled up the system you are trying to peddle here: "The trinity method."

You snake oil peddlers must be getting desperate for new business, with you reduced to trolling this board for new sheep.

You guys are so full of it!

If as you claim your method wins 88% of the time, you'd be in the casinos 24/7 playing craps, not spamming gambling forums.

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

[LarryS]

all the thousands of people who paid money via seminar and books/videos for dice influencing instruction and then afterward were told "it doesnt work unless you buy your own table and practice 1000 hours)..now can get fleeced by the trinity method...."something different"

[MisterV]

What price "hope," eh?

[regnis]

Larry--if they did buy their own table and practice for 1000 hours and it worked, would that be a problem? How many do you think actually did put in that time and effort? And no, I personally never went to a seminar and had never heard of them until I saw them on TV in some kind of Beating Vegas show that used to be on.

[LarryS]

all the thousands of people who paid money via seminar and books/videos for dice influencing instruction and then afterward were told "it doesnt work unless you buy your own table and practice 1000 hours)..now can get fleeced by the trinity method...."something different"

[LarryS]

after buying a table andafter 1000 hours of practice, no one guarantees results. Its just a dollar bill on the end of a fishing pole that just keeps getting out of reach as you chase it. After 1000 hours and complaining still no results....then the response is " thats 1000 hours is just an average....you may need more". More hours of practice, and maybe a second level seminar to refine your knowledge.
whats wrong with the instruction that people need to buy their own table and practice 1000 hours...is that it is not divulged pre-sale of books and of seminars.

In the end, the DI seminars and books and videos have produced so few effective DIs over the last 30 years..(possibly zero) that casinos find it to be a non threat and therefore do not outlaw setting

If they were at all threatened by DI...they could outlaw setting for the "good of the game"....keeping the game moving,...good both for the enjpyment of the patrons and for the profits of the casino. They wouldnt even have to mention DI in their rule change decision.

[regnis]

It isn't that simple. One local casino tried to outlaw dice setting. The players wouldn't stand for it and they had to rescind. Then they tried to put a time limit on it. That also didn't work. I don't really know what they were afraid of as I have never seen a DI at that casino.