Is Sports Betting AP Play?

[Alan Mendelson]

More likely to win? I've read so many times about so called APs who said their advantage came from cash back and drawing tickets and had nothing to do with winning. As an example: Dancer. He plays negative expectation video poker for a chance at winning a car thru drawing tickets.

True, but it is correct to include the value of the comps as "winnings."

What you put in vs. what you get back.

This is when I miss Singer who would point out that APs put certain values on sweatshirts and coffee mugs and go broke. LOL

[OneHitWonder]

That's all there is to it.

You don't have to be a full time AP to partake in some advantage plays.

I think that AP is this. A confusing relpy to a confusing question. There is no real advantage if it locked up in a mystery in an enigma around a riddle. Something like that. Maybe V can straighten it out. Lol.

P.S. At least no one is trying to back all of this up with an Actuarial Science degree. Ha.

Don't you have a baccarat or roulette table to go and lose your money on?

Would you believe 18 ties in a row?

[OneHitWonder]

This is when I miss Singer who would point out that APs put certain values on sweatshirts and coffee mugs and go broke. LOL

I'd choose the sweatshirt or nice mug over Singer's $5 drivel from biblical times any time.

[jbjb]

More likely to win? I've read so many times about so called APs who said their advantage came from cash back and drawing tickets and had nothing to do with winning. As an example: Dancer. He plays negative expectation video poker for a chance at winning a car thru drawing tickets.

True, but it is correct to include the value of the comps as "winnings."

What you put in vs. what you get back.

This is when I miss Singer who would point out that APs put certain values on sweatshirts and coffee mugs and go broke. LOL

I might value those things but I sure don't count them as winnings.

[MisterV]

No, not "winnings."

Still, not they're not to be disregarded.

How does one place a value on all the fun AP's are having plying their AP trade against the hapless casinos?

[jbjb]

How does one place a value on all the fun AP's are having plying their AP trade against the hapless casinos?

Ask that to that Zenking dude.

[OneHitWonder]

How does one place a value on all the fun AP's are having plying their AP trade against the hapless casinos?

Real fun has no value. It just is, a by-product of a job well done. I hope that you aren't implying the only fun is at the casino. We all deserve that, less the kick in the balls.

Ask that to that Zenking dude.

Don't have to.

[MisterV]

That asshat Zenking is to zen as Trump is to political correctness.

I've attempted to peer into zen a bit, and find it probably the most valuable lens for viewing the world.

see: http://www.101zenstories.org/101-zen...e-of-contents/

[OneHitWonder]

... and find it probably the most valuable lens for viewing the world.

Reality neither recoils at nor requires any lens.

Which reminds me of a karate instructor who told us on day-one there is no need to go to the orient to learn it. "Why go a long way to be ripped off?"

[MisterV]

One can view the world either as a participant, an observer, or a mixture of the two.

Zen only helps with the focus; we need to figure it out on our own.

[Biloxi Bill]

Do the above 2 idiots ^^^^^ ever STFU?

[AxelWolf]

If one has an advantage betting sports and does it regularly, I would say they are an advantage player.
I don't trust anyone's straight up handicapping. I don't believe in the JoelDezes of the world. There are various other legitimate methods people do to gain an advantage with sports.

People have only been using the word Advantage Player regularly since about, well I don't know exactly when it became a popular term, but I never even heard it used until about 2010 when I started posting regularly on WOV(I know it was used before that, but very few used that term). The casinos and Pro's usually called, what we now call AP's, team players or Pros.

Most longtime Advantage Players usually differentiate what kind of AP someone is when talking about or referring to a particular person. For instance,
"There's Joe, He's a sports bettor."
"That's Tony, he's a Blackjack player."
"Oh shit! Let's walk the other way, that's Robert, he's a scuffler"(use your imagination for this type of guy). "There's James, he's a hustler (usually a guy looking for slot banking bonuses, match plays, small promos, and various freebies)
"There's Craig, he's a low limit VP player."
"That's Steve, he's a high limit AP"
"That's Jerry, he works for so and so."
"There's Terry, he's a pro/AP" (generally
that's someone that will take advantage of anything with an advantage, assuming it fits his criteria)

If I call someone a sharp AP, that is someone who I know definitely knows his stuff, if you that person playing in a casino make sure you investigate carefully. If they tell me something, I'm sure to believe them and I would feel fairly confident in their calculations and method(I would obviously see for myself if they missed something even better)

I would call people who avoid playing bad games and search for things like 9/6 JOB and the best paytables, good BJ rules etc., who follow good strategies and even on occasion play with an advantage a Value Player, but I would not call them an Advantage Player.

[kewlJ]

That asshat Zenking is to zen as Trump is to political correctness.

I've attempted to peer into zen a bit, and find it probably the most valuable lens for viewing the world.

see: http://www.101zenstories.org/101-zen...e-of-contents/

I think Zenking's handle is a reference to the Zen count, a level 2 blackjack count, sort of a compromise count, that he played at one time, rather than a reference to Zen in the meditation /budda sense.

[mickeycrimm]

This is when I miss Singer who would point out that APs put certain values on sweatshirts and coffee mugs and go broke. LOL

The only thing that should be pointed out is how Singer conjured up in his deluded mind negative images of AP's. He lives in an alternative universe devoid of anything logical. He's an assclown. LOL

[mickeycrimm]

"Oh shit! Let's walk the other way, that's Robert, he's a scuffler"(use your imagination for this type of guy).

Okay, I'll use my imagination. This was Robert back in the day. He is a bottomfeeder. Robert hustles abandoned credits off the machines and looks for coins in the tray and on the floor. He even checks the pigeon holes under the bartops and on the coin counter, even the phone booth. He gets his smokes from the ashtrays between the machines. He drinks half finished cocktails and beer found around the machines. He looks for coupons everywhere even rummages through the garbage cans seaching for them. He buys his clothes from the Salvation Army Store under the overpass on Main St. Takes showers at the municipal swimming pool on Bonanza. While he's over that way he q's up for the 5 PM meal at the Las Vegas Rescue Mission on Bonanza. His home is a mattress at St. Vinnie's. If he puts down a machine play at all it's on the nickel blue screen Bingo's and Vacation U.S.A.'s. With an occasional good score he'll buy a hotel room for the night for $16 at the Western.

[Alan Mendelson]

I would say that if redietz studies his teams he can indeed be called an AP.

But I'm not sure Singer was wrong for criticizing so called APs when someone plays negative expectation video poker, includes drawing tickets "won" for playing video poker in the return, then loses the drawing.

[OneHitWonder]

Do the above 2 idiots ^^^^^ ever STFU?

Hey, I think that you are beginning to warm up to me.

[redietz]

Axel said something interesting in that he doesn't trust "straight handicapping." People do technically win straight handicapping, especially at college basketball, but straight handicapping has kind of gone the way of the dinosaur, in my mind,with college sports. Lines move so much in college football, for example, that WHEN to take a team has become almost as crucial as WHO to take. Probably a quarter of what I do involves whacking a team because I feel strongly the number will move, and then figuring out later if I really want that team or not. You have to set up middle shots and get the best of the number in college sports, or you're not using all of the tools. I do not know how Axel or anyone defines "straight handicapping," but everything is fluid. The college football season is so short that what transpires early in the day may effect what you think will happen later, and that can occur as late as week five or six, so wagering is ultra-fluid compared to 30 years ago.

Anyway, the point is, I try to explain that Integrity Sports isn't like other services. We don't sit there and say "we have teams a, b, and c" at some point in the week, and that's what we're doing. We're firing back and forth, and trying to middle games, and making game day decisions. I think that "non-straight" handicapping has become necessary for the last 10-12 years, at least. Billy Walters has been zig-zagging wagers for 30 years. It's how it's done.

[mickeycrimm]

But I'm not sure Singer was wrong for criticizing so called APs when someone plays negative expectation video poker, includes drawing tickets "won" for playing video poker in the return, then loses the drawing.

Singer is not an AP. He knows nothing about how to dominate the drum in a drawing promotion. Not all drawings are worth playing. You have to pick and choose carefully to insure you can dominate the drum.

Here is an example from one of my past plays. The Sands Regency in Reno put on a royal promotion. Whoever got the most royals got $10,000, 2nd place $5000, 3rd place $2000. In addition you got a drawing ticket for every royal flush. At the end of the promotion another $10,000 was given away in $500 increments when your ticket was drawn from the drum. That's 20 chances at $500.

My first thought was hundred play. I found two with penny 8/5 Super Aces, a 99.9% game. They were the only two hundred plays in the building. So I was there early to lock one up. So was someone else. I hit 147 royals, the other player outraced me and hit 169 so she got first place. 3rd place had 42.

I wound up a few hundred dollar loser on the Super Aces. But I got the 2nd place money, $5000. Then got my name drawn 6 times in the drawing for another $3000. I estimated I had 25% of the drum so came in about right in the drawing.

That's how you work a drawing, Alan. You dominate the drum as much as possible.

[mickeycrimm]

I remember a drawing promotion that Tuna Lund put his team on years ago at the Reno Hilton. It was before the multi-game machines. They had a drawing twice a day where two tickets were drawn, each winner to receive $5000. . It lasted a month. They had a ten machine bank of dollar 8/5 bonus poker with a five way progressive. That is, .25% meters running on the royal, straight flush, 4 Aces, small quads and generic quads. That's a 100.42% play. You got drawing tickets for every quad or higher. Tuna's team won all 60 drawings.