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Thread: Total Rewards Diamond/Seven Stars changes for 2018 -- goodbye free room benefit , goodbye Diamond Aspirations, goodbye 1.25:1 RC freeplay conversion

  1. #61
    I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.

  2. #62
    Hi Regnis:

    Congratulations on the win. I think the jury is out on whether a guest of a 25k Diamond has to pay any fee in 2018. No clarity as I can see

    FAB

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.
    I hope you mean tier credits, and not RCs!
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Just off the phone and was told this about the changes to free rooms and Diamond Lounges:

    "There has been too much abuse."

    The days of comp whoring are over.
    If that's the issue, I don't understand why they don't just restrict it.

    For example:

    - Make a rule that you can only stay X number of free nights per year on the Seven Stars benefits
    - Black out certain high occupancy dates
    - Require a long advance booking (30 days or more)

    That would be better than completely eliminating the benefit.

    I think CET is shooting itself in the foot in attempt to squeeze out a small number of Seven Stars value grinders.

    Many recreational players just like the whole "guaranteed room" aspect of the program. I saw a guy on Twitter today saying that he likes being able to travel to properties around the country using the Seven Stars benefit, and that's why he gambled with CET and became a Seven Stars.

    People don't like uncertainty. They don't like hearing, "You can get comped if your play justifies it". They like knowing that, no matter what, those four nights will be waiting for them anytime.

    The stupid thing here is that CET is not even saving that much money. Room costs are negligible, except when they are sold out. If you stay at Caesars during a non-event Wednesday night, you are costing them a few dollars at most. At the same time, even the Seven Stars value grinders spend money while on property. I'm not saying that they necessarily make money on these grinders, but they aren't being taken to the cleaners, either.

    I think some idiot in marketing came to the same (likely incorrect) conclusion that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider did:

    "This will only affect that customers who were abusing our free room benefit, and we don't want them anyway, so for everyone else it will have no impact."

    Except it will.

    Sure, the big gamblers won't be affected.

    But many of the recreational Seven Stars will stop being able to find comp rooms (especially in rarely-visited markets) during weekends, holidays, conventions, etc. It will be a jolt to the system. I think this will impact far more people than they believe.

    There's also the psychological aspect of the whole thing. You make Seven Stars, and you KNOW you will be getting free rooms at any of their properties for the next 1-2 years. It's a nice feeling, even if you would have qualified anyway.

    I think this was best summed up by Eric from the Travelzork site (on Twitter):

    "CET Properties are rarely the best of breed in any market. The one thing they did better than anyone else was player/consumer loyalty. I'm not privy to their numbers, so it may be a sound decision but I can no longer answer why they should get one's action."

    Exactly.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  5. #65
    Dan they'll welcome players for any number of free nights when they play.

    There's no reason to black out a real player.

    They wouldn't want to restrict a real player from calling his host on Friday to say "I'm coming up."

    All Caesars wants to do is have rooms for players and for those willing to pay. As I mentioned business has been good. It's so good they even charge for parking.

  6. #66
    They are charging for parking because they can. It became the industry standard after MGM did it and got away with it.

    The problem is that you're playing fast and loose with the definition of "real player". It's not a black-and-white distinction between obvious comp whores and highly-valuable whales.

    In reality, many players behave differently from trip to trip -- sometimes playing a lot, sometimes playing a little, and sometimes not at all. A few consecutive trips of little play, and there goes their comp rooms.

    Also, traveling to other markets -- especially during busy periods -- can also result in a lack of comps given, as some properties don't like comping out-of-market visitors, assuming they are more likely there to travel than there to gamble.

    They aren't doing this to free up rooms. They have plenty of rooms on most nights.

    This is an attack on "value" Diamond and Seven Stars members, but many others will get caught in the crossfire.

    They are misunderstanding what made their program appealing in the first place.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  7. #67
    I'll compare Total Rewards to a buffet, and maybe you'll understand.

    Say I run a buffet restaurant.

    It's best for me when 90-pound women come in, pay full price, and eat just a few bites.

    It's worst for me when big guys with huge appetites come in hungry and consume a ton of food.

    However, it all averages out, and I realize that accepting the big guys with the huge appetites is part of the cost of doing business.

    Well, one day after watching a few big guys eating far more in food than the price they paid for admission, I get angry and decide I'm going to put a stop to this.

    I put up signs all over the buffet that the most popular (and expensive) items are limited to two helpings. Each customer is now given two tickets for each of these areas, which they have to present in order to get food. So if you want a cut of prime rib, you hand over one of your two prime rib tickets.

    The big, gluttonous guys are put off by this, and they stop coming to my buffet -- exactly what I was hoping for.

    But then I notice the place is a ghost town, and I hardly have any customers at all.

    I see one of those 90-pound women turn around without deciding to enter the buffet, and I ask her what's wrong.

    "As soon as I saw the food here wasn't unlimited anymore, it lost appeal," she tells me.

    "But I've watched you before. You don't eat very much. This won't affect you at all. I've never seen you have more than two helpings of prime rib, for example," I reply.

    "That's right," she says. "But at least I knew I could if I wanted to. Now that I know this is all limited, there's really no point to go to your buffet anymore."

    And she walks out.

    That's what I think is going to happen to CET.

    Right now, most people are unaware of this change. However, come 2018, as this is widely discovered, people are going to realize that there's really no advantage to confining their business to CET anymore, if big guaranteed benefits like these are removed.

    Sometimes people just want to feel like they earned something, and that they know what to expect.

    This is a big mistake.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    They are charging for parking because they can.
    And they can take away the comps and the free stuff because they can.

    Business is good for the Caesars empire. It's so good they don't have to give free rooms anymore, and they can charge for parking, and they can cut back on offers, and they are getting more and more people.

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    They are charging for parking because they can.
    And they can take away the comps and the free stuff because they can.

    Business is good for the Caesars empire. It's so good they don't have to give free rooms anymore, and they can charge for parking, and they can cut back on offers, and they are getting more and more people.
    Nobody is arguing that they can't change things.

    They can at any time. Total Rewards is considered "promotional", and thus we have no rights to any of its benefits.

    The question is whether they SHOULD, and whether actions like this will hurt them.

    I feel that Seven Stars members are going to start abandoning CET once word of this gets around.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  10. #70
    It will definitely hurt them.... unless MGM follows.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    I was sitting at 23,000 RC's and decided to get the additional 2,000 today to lock in the Diamond room. Was questioning whether it was even worth it--and now you tell me I can't bring a guest in. Now it really isn't worth it. Luckily won $1400 chasing the 2000 RC's.
    I hope you mean tier credits, and not RCs!
    yep

  12. #72
    Regnis,

    My friend who plays craps just did the same thing yesterday -- got over the 25,000 mark with about 1000 in play. He debated making a push for the 5,000/10,000 bonus in a day thing, but I told him about the aspirations extinction. What was sleazy was that when asked directly about Aspirations biting the dust, the desk person hemmed and lied, "We haven't heard anything yet." What a crock. Next year, you need 25,000 to get in the diamond lounge. So at least it's useful he got to 25,000.

    P.S. "Real player" is a euphemism for a lot of things -- none of them good.

  13. #73
    I was thinking the same thing about getting the 5000. But in the back of my mind I was thinking I read something here that aspirations died so I left after I was at 25000. I don't really go often enough anymore to make it worthwhile, but since I only needed 2,000 I figured why not.

  14. #74
    So I have to give props to this site for making people aware of the changes. If I hadn't told my friend, he may have tried a seven hour grind.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    So I have to give props to this site for making people aware of the changes. If I hadn't told my friend, he may have tried a seven hour grind.
    Yes, thanks to Dan for looking into this and presenting clear information which most CET employees either can’t or won’t. This will probably be my last year as 7 stars.

  16. #76
    Thanks for the props, guys. I just want the gambling consumer to always fully understand what they're dealing with, and to always make an informed decision. CET appears to be attempting to keep these changes in the dark for as long as possible, hoping their omissions aren't noticed by most.

    I really wish that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider would get on board regarding complaining about this. His site is popular and many respect his opinion. He's never been shy before about criticizing CET, so everyone knows he's not a shill. Therefore, when he publishes an opinion that major changes like this "aren't a big deal" and that the program is "mostly the same as last year", this gives his readers the wrong impression.

    The program has changed more in 2018 than any other year in recent memory, and all of it for the worse. It's up to those running casino discussion sites (especially ones largely focused on CET) to really make it clear that this is a terrible neutering of the program.

    Indeed, there is no reason to get past 25,000 TC anymore, and no reason to get past 15,000 if you're not into the Diamond Lounges.

    You get nothing for passing 25k on the Diamond side, and reaching 150k is no longer worth it, as Seven Stars has been ruined.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  17. #77
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Thanks for the props, guys. I just want the gambling consumer to always fully understand what they're dealing with, and to always make an informed decision. CET appears to be attempting to keep these changes in the dark for as long as possible, hoping their omissions aren't noticed by most.

    I really wish that Darryl of Seven Stars Insider would get on board regarding complaining about this. His site is popular and many respect his opinion. He's never been shy before about criticizing CET, so everyone knows he's not a shill. Therefore, when he publishes an opinion that major changes like this "aren't a big deal" and that the program is "mostly the same as last year", this gives his readers the wrong impression.

    The program has changed more in 2018 than any other year in recent memory, and all of it for the worse. It's up to those running casino discussion sites (especially ones largely focused on CET) to really make it clear that this is a terrible neutering of the program.

    Indeed, there is no reason to get past 25,000 TC anymore, and no reason to get past 15,000 if you're not into the Diamond Lounges.

    You get nothing for passing 25k on the Diamond side, and reaching 150k is no longer worth it, as Seven Stars has been ruined.
    Yeah—I’m surprised that Darryl took such a mild approach to this. No doubt he won’t be personally impacted, but they have changed the guaranteed room comp any day into “come on in and we shall see” which is not good.

  18. #78
    I think I am seeing what's going on with Darryl. He's a little bit confused about how the Seven Stars comp works in the CET system, probably because he's a slot player and never actually had to use it. (That is, he probably always qualified for free rooms by play anyway.)

    Darryl concedes that the Seven Stars room comp has been removed by policy, but "may not be enforced".

    He's correct in one way -- not every policy is enforced. For example, for years the official rules have claimed that 96 hours are required between comp reservations, but only a 48-hour rule has ever been enforced.

    However, in this case, it's not a case where selective enforcement can occur.

    Seven Stars comp reservations can only be done through the 800 number or a host, using a special internal code which is generated for each individual year.

    So if no "Seven Stars comp room" code is generated for 2018 (which is likely going to be the case), then this will automatically be "enforced" by the system.

    Darryl tried an experiment today by making a random booking after February 1, and it showed him $0 for 4 nights.

    However, he did this on the Total Rewards website. This means nothing because the Total Rewards website only offers comp rooms based upon play and offers -- NOT the Seven Stars comp benefit.

    I just can't see CET knowingly making this major change, adjusting their website to reflect that change, and then knowingly generating a Seven Stars comp code for 2018 anyway.

    I think the only chance we have to get these Seven Stars room comps is if there's such intense player anger that corporate decides to reverse this change before February 1. But I don't think it's likely.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  19. #79
    Hi Dan:

    Speaking of CET policy of purposeful omissions, I did not see any mention of the "free" annual Seven Stars NCL cruise for 2018. Did that fall away too?

    FAB

  20. #80
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post
    Hi Dan:

    Speaking of CET policy of purposeful omissions, I did not see any mention of the "free" annual Seven Stars NCL cruise for 2018. Did that fall away too?

    FAB

    It's still there.

    On the 2018 benefits page, near the bottom, they list "Congratulatory Voyage with Norwegian Cruise Line".

    While I laughed at the "congratulatory" description, it's still there as expected.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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