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Thread: Total Rewards Diamond/Seven Stars changes for 2018 -- goodbye free room benefit , goodbye Diamond Aspirations, goodbye 1.25:1 RC freeplay conversion

  1. #81
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think I am seeing what's going on with Darryl. He's a little bit confused about how the Seven Stars comp works in the CET system, probably because he's a slot player and never actually had to use it. (That is, he probably always qualified for free rooms by play anyway.)

    Darryl concedes that the Seven Stars room comp has been removed by policy, but "may not be enforced".

    He's correct in one way -- not every policy is enforced. For example, for years the official rules have claimed that 96 hours are required between comp reservations, but only a 48-hour rule has ever been enforced.

    However, in this case, it's not a case where selective enforcement can occur.

    Seven Stars comp reservations can only be done through the 800 number or a host, using a special internal code which is generated for each individual year.

    So if no "Seven Stars comp room" code is generated for 2018 (which is likely going to be the case), then this will automatically be "enforced" by the system.

    Darryl tried an experiment today by making a random booking after February 1, and it showed him $0 for 4 nights.

    However, he did this on the Total Rewards website. This means nothing because the Total Rewards website only offers comp rooms based upon play and offers -- NOT the Seven Stars comp benefit.

    I just can't see CET knowingly making this major change, adjusting their website to reflect that change, and then knowingly generating a Seven Stars comp code for 2018 anyway.

    I think the only chance we have to get these Seven Stars room comps is if there's such intense player anger that corporate decides to reverse this change before February 1. But I don't think it's likely.
    Yeah, Darryl may not understand the difference between a calendar comp based on ADT vs a 7 stars forced comp because he has never had to use it.

    Intense player anger won’t occur because the players they care about will get comped rooms anyway.

  2. #82
    Going back and forth with Darryl on Twitter about this. He still doesn't get it. I don't think he wants to get it. I have no idea why a guy who always come off as intelligent and sharp is having such a hard time with this relatively easy concept.

    I really think he wants to believe this isn't a big deal because he initially took that position, and doesn't want to look bad for dismissing it as no big deal.



    Originally Posted by Dankyone
    Intense player anger won’t occur because the players they care about will get comped rooms anyway.
    I think the intense player anger won't occur for awhile because people won't realize it. I believe that many are like Darryl -- they don't understand how the Seven Stars comp works, and only care if they can book comp rooms! That is, they don't care HOW they're getting comped, just that it happens!

    So the higher-ADT players will keep seeing these comps, and won't realize anything's wrong -- at least not for awhile.

    But I do think that player outrage will start trickling in over the first half of 2018, as more and more people suddenly run into rooms they can't book complimentary, and get pissed.

    However, I am pretty sure that CET was aware that there would be some backlash, and have gone forward with it anyway, so it would have to be a higher-than-expected level of outrage for them to reverse this. That probably won't happen.

    It's very clear to me that CET is doing its best to avoid directly announcing this policy change (and advising TR reps to downplay it), knowing that many players who qualify for comps anyway won't even realize it, so there's no need pissing them off.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  3. #83
    Dan how many Seven Stars do you think there are who "work the system" the way you do?

    It wouldn't surprise me if there were no more than TEN others like you. I think Caesars knows that too.

    I also think that there are so many people gambling big money that they don't care about "minimal Seven Stars." I'm also a minimal Seven Stars player.

    I see who they fawn over now: the last time I was at Caesars there were five young guys, probably no older than 30, at my craps table. I was making $10 bets and they were betting with $500 chips. They took markers for $15,000 EACH. After about two hours of play they lost about $10,000 each (a big roll at the end got them about $5,000 each). Then a host walks up and says their limo is waiting to take them to play golf. And a bellman is coming with their clubs. That's the new player Caesars is seeing.

    These guys weren't even Seven Stars. I think they had gold cards, and it was their first visit.

    But this is who Caesars will cater to now. Lower level players who want big comps for little play have become a pain in the ass.

  4. #84
    Come on Alan, the Total Rewards program is a super valuable and successful asset of theirs. They even valued it at a billion dollars during the bankruptcy! They're not going to just throw all of that away because some Seven Stars grinders are irritating them.

    You seem to fail to understand that they're not just aiming this at overcomped Seven Stars members. If it were, they could easily kick us out of the program, and almost no one else would be affected.

    This is aimed at probably a large segment of the Seven Stars crowd who get to 150k and severely slow down their play because it seems like the law of diminishing returns (which it is).

    Then these same people want continued free hotel rooms everywhere, including during high occupancy periods, and they end up getting it.

    Caesars is probably tired of those play slowdowns and they want to keep all players on their toes, continually earning to justify their ongoing room comps. So even a non-grinder who just slows down his play at 150k and stays a few times without playing much will probably find himself not qualifying for comp rooms, especially during otherwise expensive periods.

    I see what they're trying to accomplish. By taking this room comp away, they're capping the value of Seven Stars at a fixed number under $3000. There's no longer an open-ended comp that people can keep using to their heart's desire. Now it's mostly back to the old model -- you get what you earned from your recent play -- with a few finite benefits (the trip, the $500 in meal vouchers, etc) to make it still look pretty.

    They also figure that their most valuable Seven Stars will never be left without a room comp anyway (based upon their ADT), so they'll never notice.

    But don't fool yourself into thinking that this only will affect a tiny percentage of Seven Stars.

    One day you're going to try and book a room and find yourself with a rate, and they're going to tell you that your recent play wasn't good enough, or that this weekend is too expensive.

    Then you'll realize that it's not just the bonus whores who are going to suffer here.

    The best thing about Total Rewards Seven Stars was that you could comp yourself. Once you had enough RCs banked and the Seven Stars status, you could basically stay for free and eat for free for a long time, and you'd only play when you'd feel like playing.

    That model is gone now. It's back to the constant game of having to earn enough to make your host and/or the computer happy.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  5. #85
    Alan, that Eric Rosenthal guy, who wrote the Travelzork coulmn, is a perfect example of the player they're going to lose from this.

    He admits to being a recreational gambler. He's a table games player, and says it takes a long time to make Seven Stars (he's right).

    He isn't a comp whore, and he's not working the system.

    However, he also wants to feel like he's valued as a customer. He found that other casinos had better offers, better properties, etc, but he put his action mostly with CET because he loved the idea of the guaranteed comp room at the large network of properties in the US.

    Now that this is gone, he asked himself, "Why should I give any action to CET anymore? Their comps aren't the best, their properties aren't the best, their customer service isn't the best... why bother?"

    So he's not going to re-earn it, and he's going to move his action elsewhere in 2018.

    If I were in CET management, I would be freaking out over losing players like this. They WANT the table games player who is prolific enough to get to Seven Stars. He dutifully plays and plays and plays to get that status. He mostly ignores their competitors while doing so, despite acknowledging their superiority in many ways. Now he's gone.

    Another guy discussing this on Twitter is a recreational gambler who loves to take his family around the country to different CET properties, and stay for free. He also is not a comp whore or an AP. He's just a regular guy who likes gambling and enjoys the fringe benefit of a standing room comp at lots of casino hotels around the US. Once again, that guarantee is gone, and so is his business.

    They are making a big mistake here.

    There were many ways to handle this room comp situation if they weren't happy with it.

    They could have kicked the comp whores out of the program. They could have capped the number of free nights one could redeem with that benefit in one year. They could have blacked out popular dates from that benefit.

    Removing it entirely was the worst possible choice.

    We shall see the fallout as the year progresses.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #86
    Holy crap. I just saw this thread or at least started reading it. Yeah, free rooms is probably the most important part to the 7 stars program. Without guaranteed free rooms, I likely won't do it next year. I know two others who most likely won't either. I know a fourth who was considering doing a 7 Stars run in January, because he always has friends coming to town and would like to put them up "for free" at a CET property on the strip. He likely won't be earning 7 stars without the guarantee free rooms.

    The cheapest you can do a 7* run in LV is about $4,500. We certainly don't get $4,500+ of value out of the free rooms and other benefits. But simply the ease of use and guarantee that you can get a room is worth the additional cost, IMO. Sort of like having a lawyer on retainer - it costs more but it's more hassle-free.

  7. #87
    Dan all I can say is its a new Era. I'm accepting it. Fortunately for me I don't have to stay in a hotel when I'm in Vegas so my only concern is a good game and offers for free play and dining.

    Red Rock has a great craps game. $10 bets on the 4 and 10 pay $19 while everyone else pays $18. They have Bonus Craps which I love. The tables have a good bounce and they're the right size. There's free parking. It's a clean casino and few smokers. I haven't played there enough yet to get any mailers, however, so I don't know what offers I might get.

    You have a problem. You need CET for free rooms during WSOP. Unfortunately you can post all you want on this forum and it won't help. But I have a suggestion: call the gaming writer at the LV Review Journal. That's your best shot.

  8. #88
    That's actually not a bad idea -- to contact the Gaming writer at the LVRJ. I think I might actually do that.

    I would love for the media to get a hold of this story and alert everyone to CET's shenanigans with this one.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  9. #89
    I just scrolled quickly through the 2018 7* benefits on TR.com. I'm seeing...

    Guaranteed Room with 72 hours notice in Atlantic City and Las Vegas5
    Upgrade to best available room at check-in2
    Complimentary early check-in / late check-out2
    2Restrictions apply. Please see Total Rewards Center for complete details.
    5Where available. Member responsible for the prevailing room rate at time of booking. Blackout dates may apply.
    Note: the "restrictions apply" is for #2, which is about upgraded rooms and late check out, and not guaranteed comp rooms.


    But I'm still reading it. But just from that it looks like LV and AC are good for comp rooms guarantee.

  10. #90
    Although I do see this

    1Some of these benefits and privileges are based on play/activity while using your Total Rewards card. Additional restrictions may also apply.
    Unfortunately the #1 doesn't show up on anything, as far as I can tell.

  11. #91
    "Guaranteed room" is a wording trick.

    Has never meant "comp room" at any property anywhere. That's a common "benefit" of upper-tier cards: We will hold a room for you, but you may have to pay a fortune for it!

    Well... ummm... thanks, I guess.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  12. #92

  13. #93
    Yes, the Seven Stars benefits changed its wording from “Complimentary room” to “Guaranteed room”. Guaranteed availability means you still might have to pay a rate if your ADT doesn’t justify a comp on the dates you want.

  14. #94
    Alan claimed in another thread that he had been informed that Caesars may not "enforce" the free room removal from Seven Stars.

    I asked privately who informed him of this, and he told me that a host had informed him that she would still be comping all of her Seven Stars players.

    That's what I'm hearing many people are being told, and in fact that's what a casino services employee tried to tell me when I called in December (without identifying myself).

    I am here to tell you that this is all BS.

    Seven Stars comps were special because they were enabled by a specific booking code. This booking code was not made public (and I think perhaps not even usable on the website), but could be used by both hosts and call center employees.

    If you did not otherwise qualify for a room comp, as I frequently didn't, they could enter your Seven Stars booking code and it would force it through as a comp booking.

    Without this code, there will be no Seven Stars room comps, and your only comps will be due to ADT (play-related) or mailed offers. Your comps will no longer have anything to do with you being a Seven Stars member.


    This code is generated each year. There has not yet been one generated for 2018, and there are currently no plans to generate such a code. At the moment, the 2017 code still works, but only on bookings ending by January 31. After that, the 2017 code will expire, and without a 2018 code, there will be no Seven Stars room comps.

    Some players will still get room comps because their play justifies it, but that's not due to being Seven Stars. That's simply from earning it due to recent/semi-recent past play, and you would earn the same (or better) room comps at other, non-Caesars casinos.

    So when your host (or other CET employees) tells you that this change is inconsequential, don't believe them. They're just telling you what you want to hear, possibly because they believe your play will justify comps anyway.

    This is a huge change.

    Prior to 2018, Seven Stars members were NOT a slave to playing regularly in order to qualify for room comps. Now they are.

    Enjoy!
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  15. #95
    Just an interesting note to add to this. Just received a random AC offer (nothing special) but noted the following at the bottom of the email:

    “As always, Seven Stars® guests will receive a complimentary stay, any day.”

    Anyone else see language like this in offers?

  16. #96
    Originally Posted by simmoja3 View Post
    Just an interesting note to add to this. Just received a random AC offer (nothing special) but noted the following at the bottom of the email:

    “As always, Seven Stars® guests will receive a complimentary stay, any day.”

    Anyone else see language like this in offers?
    I think that's VERY significant. Vegas goers should look for that. Thanks for posting.

  17. #97

  18. #98
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    "a" may be a key word
    What about "any day"?

    Looks pretty clear to me.

  19. #99
    you can have "a" free room on a day of your choosing

  20. #100
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    you can have "a" free room on a day of your choosing
    What did you expect, half the floor?

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