Tracking multiple BJ tables - Richard Munchkin

[kewlJ]

Post it up.

FUCK YOU! It is NOT my duty to teach you shit! And it is not your right to demand "shit".

I am happy to engage in respectful discussions and try my best to explain things (which isn't one of my strengths) to people when asked politely in a reasonable discussion. THAT is not YOU! I don't know what planet you are F-ing from that you think you have the right to demand anything of me.

[mickeycrimm]

The problem for you is there are people here playing with a full deck.

But you are not one of them.

[mickeycrimm]

The picture was taken from the end of the table and not the middle where there would have been an angle to the other table

You can't tell where Alan was standing from that photo.

The camera angle is all that matters, he could be standing at any position.

You and tj are both delusional.

You are blind as a bat.

[mickeycrimm]

I'm not a blackjack player, have read no books on the subject, and what little I've gleaned about the subject has come from these boards.

KJ, I read you explanation as to counting two tables simultaneously, and it is interesting.

But here is my question, applicable to all blackjack play: for counting to work correctly, shouldn't the counting begin and continue without interruption from the time the newly shuffled deck begins to be dealt?

Stated differently, if a counter starts counting mid-shoe, how can he account for the cards previously dealt, unless there is some sort of what I'd call "averaging," for lack of a better word?

Short answer is no MrV. A player can walk by a table that where 4 of 6 decks have already been played and see a bunch of small cards (2through 6) on the table and would be at an advantage the next round, even not having the slightest clue to what cards were played in those unseen 4 decks. It is not desirable. Desirable is to have as much information as possible. But the fact is it takes relatively little to identify an advantage.

Munchkin alluded to this. Unseen cards just serve the same as more shallow (or shallower?) penetration, which again, is not the most desirable. The math type guys are probably much better at explaining this than I.

That's called "situational betting", and is a load of crap. Post up how a count translates into an advantage.

What is your gambling history? What games do you play? What games have you studied? What is your track record? Qualify yourself and start posting under your real name.

POST IT UP

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually I wasn't standing. I was sitting and I held my cell at eye level to take the photo.

Let me see kewlj's photo.

[mickeycrimm]

I think you'll stick out as a card counter as soon as you start looking at another table and delay your own game.

It's all automated now. But, the casinos always did go by who wins and loses. How do you hide that?

Now you are really showing your stupidity. Surveilance goes by the betting pattern according to the count.

[kewlJ]

Now go look for yourselves. I know you disagree with me. But go look. You APs must be in casinos all the time so why hasn't anyone else looked or posted their own photo?

Crickets? Or as we used to say, your silence is deafening.

What the HELL is wrong with you Alan? Seriously were you in some kind of learning disability class when a child? (They probably didn't have that in the 1930's).

You repeat the same stupid (and WRONG) talking points over and over.

Nobody has posted pictures because no body CARES. And that fact isn't proof of what you are saying just the same as it doesn't support my case.

And BTW, nut job, AP's are in the casino for other reasons, not to take pictures to prove or disprove anything to you. While I don't want to speak for any other AP's here, I can assure you that is pretty far down on their list of what to do in the casino. Probably at about the same spot on the list as counting the fibers on the carpet.

[mickeycrimm]

Kewlj every time you lie I'm going to call you out on it. The photos were not taken from an end seat. .

I looked very closely at the photo and it's obvious you took the picture from 3rd base and not a middle seat.

Obviously I'm not going to convince you or kewlj that I took the photo from a middle seat as I originally described the photo when I first posted it.

So, why don't you or kewlj or RS or jbjb or any other interested person post your own photo. And while you're at it, while sitting at a table -- even a closed table at 3 in the morning -- look at the nearby tables and report back if you think you will be able to see cards?
Enough discussion about my photo. Go look for yourselves.

Hard to do when I'm hundreds of miles from a blackjack table.

[kewlJ]

And you know what else Alan? You should stop mentioning that photo was taken at 3am. You mention that like it's a good thing. You jumping up at 3am and running to the casino to take a photo of a blackjack table shows what a complete obsessive nut you are. That is exactly the kind of thing that will be brought up at your competency hearing...which I suspect isn't far off.

[mickeycrimm]

And you know what else Alan? You should stop mentioning that photo was taken at 3am. You mention that like it's a good thing. You jumping up at 3am and running to the casino to take a photo of a blackjack table shows what a complete obsessive nut you are. That is exactly the kind of thing that will be brought up at your competency hearing...which I suspect isn't far off.

And the photo doesn't show that cards can be seen even if a few people are at the table.

[kewlJ]

MrV, I take you at your word that your questions are sincere from somebody that doesn't play a lot of blackjack and doesn't know about blackjack AP. I am sorry that this is not the kind of environment or place that can allow for more reasonable discussions and answers. If the questions that you posed are really something you would like answers to, I recommend that you re-post them at WoV and allow Mike Shackleford or one of the other knowledgeable math or blackjack guys respond.

[MisterV]

My question was genuine, but my interest is casual as I don't play the game.

As with most aspects of my life I seek to learn, be informed, and evaluate and weigh things based on valid criteria.

I accept your answer to the question, thank you.

I do have another question, probably filed under "blackjack 101:" what is the policy toward mid-shoe entry?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was a red flag to try and ID counters, and that some casinos prohibited it?

[kewlJ]

My question was genuine, but my interest is casual as I don't play the game.

As with most aspects of my life I seek to learn, be informed, and evaluate and weigh things based on valid criteria.

I accept your answer to the question, thank you.

I do have another question, probably filed under "blackjack 101:" what is the policy toward mid-shoe entry?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was a red flag to try and ID counters, and that some casinos prohibited it?

No mid shoe entry usually referred to as NMSE, is much bigger in other areas, like east coast where I used to play than in Vegas. But some (off-strip) casinos in Vegas, have a rule that if you join mid shoe you have to bet table minimum until the shuffle, which serves the same purpose as NMSE.

But, while mid shoe entry is allowed at many places in Vegas, I personally agree with you observation, that it draws some attention. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "counter trap" as some other things in Vegas are, but I think your term "red flag" is appropriate. Let's just say if you sit down mid shoe betting anything much more than table minimum you will be noticed. Doesn't necessarily mean something will come of it, but you will be notice. I try to be noticed the least amount as possible.

[Alan Mendelson]

And you know what else Alan? You should stop mentioning that photo was taken at 3am. You mention that like it's a good thing. You jumping up at 3am and running to the casino to take a photo of a blackjack table shows what a complete obsessive nut you are. That is exactly the kind of thing that will be brought up at your competency hearing...which I suspect isn't far off.

Actually taking the photo at 3am was the right thing to do. Since the blackjack pit was closed I was able to sit down at a table and take the photos. There was no one there to stop me.

By the way most of my career was spent working nights. I worked my way through college as an overnight DJ at radio stations in Syracuse. At CBS News in New York as a producer I started work at midnight for the Morning News and to deal with our foreign bureaus in Europe and Asia. In Miami in the 1980s I covered the airline industry and that involved everything from all night contract talks to covering crashes anytime and any place. In LA in the 1990s and later I was on the 10 PM and 11 PM news and we'd party starting at midnight. And more recently working nights especially when editing and writing has the advantage of few distractions.

And now that I'm retired (or at least semi retired) I can do what I want when I want.

I'm still waiting to see your photo. It might provide good cover for you. You can claim to be a tourist, especially when they see you staring at the next table.

By the way, put two people between you and the next table, one or both at your table or at the table next to you between your eyes and the table surface, and you won't see any cards at the other table.

[Alan Mendelson]

My question was genuine, but my interest is casual as I don't play the game.

As with most aspects of my life I seek to learn, be informed, and evaluate and weigh things based on valid criteria.

I accept your answer to the question, thank you.

I do have another question, probably filed under "blackjack 101:" what is the policy toward mid-shoe entry?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was a red flag to try and ID counters, and that some casinos prohibited it?

No mid shoe entry usually referred to as NMSE, is much bigger in other areas, like east coast where I used to play than in Vegas. But some (off-strip) casinos in Vegas, have a rule that if you join mid shoe you have to bet table minimum until the shuffle, which serves the same purpose as NMSE.

But, while mid shoe entry is allowed at many places in Vegas, I personally agree with you observation, that it draws some attention. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "counter trap" as some other things in Vegas are, but I think your term "red flag" is appropriate. Let's just say if you sit down mid shoe betting anything much more than table minimum you will be noticed. Doesn't necessarily mean something will come of it, but you will be notice. I try to be noticed the least amount as possible.

So if you're stuck at table minimum what's the point of tracking a second table and then moving to it?

[kewlJ]

By the way, put two people between you and the next table, one or both at your table or at the table next to you between your eyes and the table surface, and you won't see any cards at the other table.

Damn it Alan! This is what infuriates me about you. THIS was established way back in July or August or whenever this topic first came up. I clearly said "when conditions permit". So you have spent months searching for and taking pictures of conditions that don't permit. I have to ask again, What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you really this thick? Maybe You should have been Alan Thicke. (that was weak I know).

[mickeycrimm]

By the way, put two people between you and the next table, one or both at your table or at the table next to you between your eyes and the table surface, and you won't see any cards at the other table.

KJ originally said he counts two tables when conditions permit. People in the way are not "when conditions permit." If someone said they take a dump when conditions permit your response would be "But you can't take a dump if the seat is already taken." The thing is, that goes without saying.

[AxelWolf]

Just curious, I know an AP doesn't want to sit around and take pictures in a casino, but I'm sure someone who has no opinion either way could take a few pictures. I don't know that any pictures could give a real view of what one can or cant see.

[OneHitWonder]

I'm still waiting to see your photo. It might provide good cover for you. You can claim to be a tourist, especially when they see you staring at the next table.

Hahaha.

[OneHitWonder]

I think you'll stick out as a card counter as soon as you start looking at another table and delay your own game.

It's all automated now. But, the casinos always did go by who wins and loses. How do you hide that?

Now you are really showing your stupidity. Surveilance goes by the betting pattern according to the count.

Yes, and that is automated.