The WoV Thread

[AxelWolf]

I was posting at WOV because they have decent traffic. I figured that with that decent traffic would come engagement with other gamblers.

And why do you care how much traffic is at a site?

Sharp attention and reading comprehension skills not a measure of one's card counting aptitude, evidently?

No, it comes for me only reading the first line. Going back, I see what you said. There seems to be a ton of traffic over at gambling forums including people such as yourself. Most of the regulars over on Wizard of Vegas are well aware of the fact that there's no special system (or whatever you want to call it) that can beat a -EV game. They're also well aware that there have been many people just like you, with all the pictures and outrageous stories who turned out to be complete frauds. It's always the same story over and over, it starts out and looks just like what if you have done so far. It's probably not your best audience.

[AxelWolf]

I can't remember all the details but there was someone on wizard of Vegas who allowed Michael Shackelford access to his online casino account to view win-loss statements where he claimed to make over $1000000 or something like that it turns out it was a complete fraud where a mistake had been made or some b******* like that.

[MDawg]

Actually now that you brought that up, what was the story there? I understand I am getting only your side of it right now, which it seems like you're quick to accuse people of fakery and looking at it from my point of view, at least last I checked I am not a fake, but still - I am curious, what's the complete story behind that SiegfriedRoy $1M blackjack table win?

I looked on the WOV site and I didn't find anyone posting anything to the effect of that it was illegitimate. Was there something behind the scenes no one ever posted about?

This is the thread
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...6-went-for-it/
and yes, I do see that the guy deleted the first post of the thread, which in itself is suspect, but what's the complete story?

Here is where the Wizard verified the $1M
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../8/#post399281

By the way, speaking of ignorance, this shows your ignorance Axel:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../9/#post399469
where you were going on and on about "show me the CTR" to prove that you won - this tells me you've never had a big table win in your life. I've had table wins of just under mid six figures, several of low six figures, more than I can count of over ten grand, and I never gotten a CTR handed in on me (unless I WANTED one to be handed in on me, and just took the cash) - I had almost all of the big wins wired, or got a check. So, I just think that you make up a lot of stuff to make it seem like you know what you are talking about. You can get a ten million dollar win at a table game and not a penny will be reported, and there will be no CTR.

Even the fact that you are saying "SHOW" me the CTR shows ignorance. If a table game player were sloppy enough or didn't care enough, to go ahead and cash out over ten grand in 24 hours, the cage cashier would hand him...not a thing, other than the cash! A CTR is a report sent to the Dept. of Treasury it is not a slip of anything, handed to you! ("Oh yeah, Sir, would you like a copy of that CTR?" DUH! no that's not the way it happens.) So again, it just shows how little you know about table game play, and tells me that you've never won over ten grand! at a table game. Weak.

But anyway...I digress. How exactly did you determine that this SiegfriedRoy bozo did not win a million? I clicked through every post in that thread after the one where the Wizard said he verified the win/loss, and there is no post from anyone, including you, contradicting the story. BeachBumBabs even comes in and congratulates the guy. The only odd things I notice are that the SiegfriedRoy guy went in and started deleting a bunch of his own posts, but you yourself came in and stated that he probably did that to stop weirdos from contacting him about his big win.

[House of Orange]

I suppose that as far as WOV when I return there I'll just have to post and not respond to anyone.

Just put on ignore the folks that goad you. Easy Peasy

[AxelWolf]

Actually now that you brought that up, what was the story there? I understand I am getting only your side of it right now, which it seems like you're quick to accuse people of fakery and looking at it from my point of view, at least last I checked I am not a fake, but still - I am curious, what's the complete story behind that SiegfriedRoy $1M blackjack table win?

I looked on the WOV site and I didn't find anyone posting anything to the effect of that it was illegitimate. Was there something behind the scenes no one ever posted about?

This is the thread
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...6-went-for-it/
and yes, I do see that the guy deleted the first post of the thread, which in itself is suspect, but what's the complete story?

Here is where the Wizard verified the $1M
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../8/#post399281

By the way, speaking of ignorance, this shows your ignorance Axel:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../9/#post399469
where you were going on and on about "show me the CTR" to prove that you won - this tells me you've never had a big table win in your life. I've had table wins of just under mid six figures, several of low six figures, more than I can count of over ten grand, and I never gotten a CTR handed in on me (unless I WANTED one to be handed in on me, and just took the cash) - I had almost all of the big wins wired, or got a check. So, I just think that you make up a lot of stuff to make it seem like you know what you are talking about. You can get a ten million dollar win at a table game and not a penny will be reported, and there will be no CTR.

Even the fact that you are saying "SHOW" me the CTR shows ignorance. If a table game player were sloppy enough or didn't care enough, to go ahead and cash out over ten grand in 24 hours, the cage cashier would hand him...not a thing, other than the cash! A CTR is a report sent to the Dept. of Treasury it is not a slip of anything, handed to you! ("Oh yeah, Sir, would you like a copy of that CTR?" DUH! no that's not the way it happens.) So again, it just shows how little you know about table game play, and tells me that you've never won over ten grand! at a table game. Weak.

But anyway...I digress. How exactly did you determine that this SiegfriedRoy bozo did not win a million? I clicked through every post in that thread after the one where the Wizard said he verified the win/loss, and there is no post from anyone, including you, contradicting the story. BeachBumBabs even comes in and congratulates the guy. The only odd things I notice are that the SiegfriedRoy guy went in and started deleting a bunch of his own posts, but you yourself came in and stated that he probably did that to stop weirdos from contacting him about his big win.

YOU ARE WRONG! I have been required to give my information even at poker tables for cash transactions.

Show me the law where table games are exempt from the law requiring CTR's? If they already have your information they probably aren't going to ask you in person for your information there's a chance you don't even know they're doing it.

[AxelWolf]

Actually now that you brought that up, what was the story there? I understand I am getting only your side of it right now, which it seems like you're quick to accuse people of fakery and looking at it from my point of view, at least last I checked I am not a fake, but still - I am curious, what's the complete story behind that SiegfriedRoy $1M blackjack table win?

I looked on the WOV site and I didn't find anyone posting anything to the effect of that it was illegitimate. Was there something behind the scenes no one ever posted about?

This is the thread
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...6-went-for-it/
and yes, I do see that the guy deleted the first post of the thread, which in itself is suspect, but what's the complete story?

Here is where the Wizard verified the $1M
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../8/#post399281

By the way, speaking of ignorance, this shows your ignorance Axel:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../9/#post399469
where you were going on and on about "show me the CTR" to prove that you won - this tells me you've never had a big table win in your life. I've had table wins of just under mid six figures, several of low six figures, more than I can count of over ten grand, and I never gotten a CTR handed in on me (unless I WANTED one to be handed in on me, and just took the cash) - I had almost all of the big wins wired, or got a check. So, I just think that you make up a lot of stuff to make it seem like you know what you are talking about. You can get a ten million dollar win at a table game and not a penny will be reported, and there will be no CTR.

Even the fact that you are saying "SHOW" me the CTR shows ignorance. If a table game player were sloppy enough or didn't care enough, to go ahead and cash out over ten grand in 24 hours, the cage cashier would hand him...not a thing, other than the cash! A CTR is a report sent to the Dept. of Treasury it is not a slip of anything, handed to you! ("Oh yeah, Sir, would you like a copy of that CTR?" DUH! no that's not the way it happens.) So again, it just shows how little you know about table game play, and tells me that you've never won over ten grand! at a table game. Weak.

But anyway...I digress. How exactly did you determine that this SiegfriedRoy bozo did not win a million? I clicked through every post in that thread after the one where the Wizard said he verified the win/loss, and there is no post from anyone, including you, contradicting the story. BeachBumBabs even comes in and congratulates the guy. The only odd things I notice are that the SiegfriedRoy guy went in and started deleting a bunch of his own posts, but you yourself came in and stated that he probably did that to stop weirdos from contacting him about his big win.

YOU ARE WRONG! I have been required to give my information even at poker tables for cash transactions.

Show me the law where table games are exempt from the law requiring CTR's? If they already have your information they probably aren't going to ask you in person for your information there's a chance you don't even know they're doing it. Oftentimes, casinos don't follow the laws.

[MDawg]

Axel, let me make nice and sparkling clear why you made clear that you've never in your life had any kind of significant win at a casino at a table game, and why you know nothing about table play.

In fact, even your follow up post here, today, shows how clueless and low end you are.

1) In this thread
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...6-went-for-it/
a guy posted about how he had won a million at blackjack.

You came in here
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb.../9/#post399469
and mused above whether the guy had received a CTR (cash transaction report) for the win, and asked him to show it to you or somehow establish that he received a CTR, as proof of the win.

a) Are you a fucking idiot? Obviously you have never had any kind of significant win at a casino, if you think that a guy who has won a million at a table game is going to get a CTR then you are as clueless as anyone who has never gambled at a casino at all. And this post of yours at WOV asking if he got a CTR crystallizes that you've never had any kind of significant table win at any casino - Anyone who wins anything significant at a casino would ask for the payout from the table game when cashing the chips in a WIRE or a CHECK, and, since you've obviously never been in that position of any kind of significant table game win, I will fill you in on what happens as far as a CTR when you're paid with a wire or check: nothing. No CTR is issued for you, at all.

So that's #1. Your asking whether a CTR was issued for any kind of significant table game win shows how alien any of this high end table game play is for you. No high roller would ask for a million in cash for a table game win, he would ask for it in a check, or bank wire, which would obviate any CTR.

2) In that thread you seem to be asking the guy to "show" you his CTR, or establish that he got one, to prove his table game win. Again, how clueless are you? A CTR is something that is transmitted to the Dept. of Treasury by the casino for any deposit or withdrawal of cash over $10K in a 24 hour period. It is not some slip of paper that is HANDED to the winner, nor is there any way for a player who deposits or withdraws cash to figure out definitively whether or not a CTR was handed in on him, so there is absolutely nothing that this guy who claims to have won a million at BJ could have shown or demonstrated to you CTR wise, to establish his win.

Even if he had been as clueless as you, and asked for the million in cash, STILL he would have no way of establishing to himself, you or anyone else that a CTR was issued.

In all, it just becomes clear that you've never had any kind of significant win at any table game, know nothing about table games of ANY kind, and know nothing about any kind of high roller.


Lest we forget
3) I posted at the end of this same WOV thread about a trip of mine from that period of play of mine from over a decade ago, where I won about three hundred K at one casino alone. (By the way, I can tell you right now that I did NOT have a CTR handed in on me for that win - I had it all wired, and actually, during that SAME trip I won just under a hundred and fifty K from a different casino.) I offered this experience of mine, from many years ago, as an illustration of that yes, it is possible to win big at a table game.
Now, you are coming in here, in this thread at VCT, saying that this guy's claim of winning a million, even though he had the Wizard login to his player account and verify the $1M win, was somehow gainsaid. How? Why? As I read through that thread once the Wizard came in and posted that he had verified the guy's win on his online player account, I did not see any post from anyone, including you, contradicting all that. AND DON'T TELL ME IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH A CTR, DROP THAT LINE OF IDIOTIC TALK YOU ALREADY BLEW IT AND ESTABLISHED THEN, AND AGAIN TODAY THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HIGH END TABLE PLAY AND HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED IT, at least not with any kind of significant win!

[LMR]

People with the answers don't waste their time with large blocks of text nobody with a life is going to read.

[monet]

People with the answers don't waste their time with large blocks of text nobody with a life is going to read.

Just another form of Entertainment and very inexpensive compared to other choices.

[LMR]

Ha, go read what I posted about Blackhole while you were posting this. Hehehe.

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...212#post100212

[MDawg]

Obviously you did read it though, large block or not! Are you saying that you have any more of a life than any of us, during coronavirus lockdown? Well, I still am getting some money sent in from non-local clients, and I still have my stock trading, but we can't even go to the gym which is the biggest killer. Now my wife is reminding me that she suggested that we build one here a while ago, but I always said that it would have to be huge in order to compete with what we have at our real gym, so I never got around to it.

Let's see how many of my tenants pay before the 5th....

Meantime I have fun engaging with Axel "show me the CTRs" Wolf to show how he knows nothing about high end table game play.

[regnis]

Below is a link for the rules regarding cash transactions in casinos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino...nk_Secrecy_Act

A few years ago Caesars got a substantial fine for failure to properly report.

[MDawg]

The operative word being CASH. Currency.

If you, like Axel, don't know the difference between a wire or check, and cash, you have never won much at a casino at a table game. Axel already showed his ignorance.

Axel: Hey MDawg, did you really win three hundred grand at the Baccarat tables? Where is your CTR to prove it?

DUH.

Give me a break. If you guys want to question MDawg, and I am not saying regnis that was your intent, but it HAS been clearly Axel's intent for some time, at least get a clue and don't show your hand - the hand being, of one who has never won much of anything at a table game. "I'm a card counter but I've never won more than ten grand at the tables." is what Axel is saying. Forgettaboutit.

[monet]

Give me a break. If you guys want to question MDawg, and I am not saying regnis that was your intent, but it HAS been clearly Axel's intent for some time, at least get a clue and don't show your hand - the hand being, of one who has never won much of anything at a table game.

I don't follow your posts and I don't care but did you just refer to yourself in the third person???
I hate that shit lol.

[MDawg]

Listen guys, how about stopping with the irrelevant comments just for one day --- which just end up burying the meat of this thread, which is calling out Axel for not knowing shit about anything he was talking about in that post. We already know he has a hard time following anything that is more than a few basic sentences (or forum posts) long. I mean, HE'LL post a long post going on and on, but try to get him to read your post of any length and he doesn't seem to be able to follow it. Or pretends that he can't.



I don't really care if he wants to concede that he knows nada or not, but given that he knows nada, he shouldn't question the real thing - which is...MDAWG! (3rd Person.)

Axel is apparently your guys' Walk on Water hero, so the fact that he knows nada may be unsettling to some of you, but step aside please, and let the self anointed hero Axel make his explanation.

[regnis]

Reporting requirements – Mandatory use of FinCEN BSA E-Filing System
Currency Transaction Report (CTR), must be filed by casinos to report each transaction in currency involving cash-in and cash-out of more than $10,000 in a gaming day (31 CFR 1021.311).

A. Transactions in currency involving cash-in include, but are not limited to (31 CFR 1021.311(a)):

Purchase of chips, tokens, and plaques
Front money deposits
Safekeeping deposits
Payments on any form of credit, including markers and counter checks
Bets of currency
Currency received by a casino for transmittal of funds through wire transfer for customer
Purchases of a casino’s check
Exchanges of currency for currency, including foreign currency
B. Transactions in currency involving cash-out include, but are not limited to (31 CFR 1021.311(b)):

Redemption of chips, tokens and plaques
Front money withdrawals
Safekeeping withdrawals
Advances on any form of credit, including markers and counter checks
Payments on bets, excluding slot and video lottery terminal jackpots
Payments by a casino to a customer based on receipts of funds through wire transfer for credit to a customer
Cashing of checks or other negotiable instruments
Exchanges of currency for currency, including foreign currency
Reimbursements for customers’ travel and entertainment expenses by the casino


So I wasn't taking any position even though I knew you were wrong. It is not my thing to get into these internet arguments. But I took part in creation of these rules so I know the intent. And the above makes it pretty clear, at least to me.

When I was a professional gambler a report was filed every day on me, even though I didn't carry any cash. It was all done by marker or otherwise. I was made aware of it by a friendly casino exec---but I hadn't ever thought that it wasn't being reported.

[tableplay]

Reporting requirements – Mandatory use of FinCEN BSA E-Filing System
Currency Transaction Report (CTR), must be filed by casinos to report each transaction in currency involving cash-in and cash-out of more than $10,000 in a gaming day (31 CFR 1021.311).

A. Transactions in currency involving cash-in include, but are not limited to (31 CFR 1021.311(a)):

Purchase of chips, tokens, and plaques
Front money deposits
Safekeeping deposits
Payments on any form of credit, including markers and counter checks
Bets of currency
Currency received by a casino for transmittal of funds through wire transfer for customer
Purchases of a casino’s check
Exchanges of currency for currency, including foreign currency
B. Transactions in currency involving cash-out include, but are not limited to (31 CFR 1021.311(b)):

Redemption of chips, tokens and plaques
Front money withdrawals
Safekeeping withdrawals
Advances on any form of credit, including markers and counter checks
Payments on bets, excluding slot and video lottery terminal jackpots
Payments by a casino to a customer based on receipts of funds through wire transfer for credit to a customer
Cashing of checks or other negotiable instruments
Exchanges of currency for currency, including foreign currency
Reimbursements for customers’ travel and entertainment expenses by the casino


So I wasn't taking any position even though I knew you were wrong. It is not my thing to get into these internet arguments. But I took part in creation of these rules so I know the intent. And the above makes it pretty clear, at least to me.

When I was a professional gambler a report was filed every day on me, even though I didn't carry any cash. It was all done by marker or otherwise. I was made aware of it by a friendly casino exec---but I hadn't ever thought that it wasn't being reported.

If you don't watch it Regnis, Mdawg will put you on ignore (I can't imagine the amount of sleep you will lose over it ;-)) - he doesn't like being shown that he is dead wrong.

[MDawg]

Regnis: I am not wrong.

I am sorry but you are hopelessly clueless about any of this. It is painfully obvious that you have never been there. You're posting a bunch of regulations with no clue as to what they mean, or how they are applied.

Let me explain. I am a credit line player. I don't deposit cash. If I win three hundred grand, which I have before, and I ask for the funds to be sent to me by wire, or ask for a check, there is no cash involved, and there will be no CTR.

Let's say, I am a front money player. I present a cashier's check, or I have the money wired in, to fund my account. Again, no cash involved. I win over ten grand and I ask for a check or wire for my win. Again, there will be no CTR.

Let's stop right there regnis, if you can't understand the above two examples, foregattaboutit, we're not on the same page to begin with.

I mean come on, "involving cash-in and cash-out of more than $10,000." Duh. Do I need to explain what that means, or doesn't mean?

What IS becoming clear is that you guys are all low end slots players. That's why you keep talking about W2Gs and CTRs. Most of the highest end players do not deal with cash at all, we're all credit line, bank wires, and so on. If we take some of our wins in cash, it's usually just walking around money and we are careful to keep it under ten grand per 24 hours.


I mean if we were to follow along with the absurdity of what you are implying, every time money was wired or a check deposited in any bank account, there would be a CTR! CTRs are there to document instances of CASH (currency) moving around. The intent of CTRs is not to try to record casino wins which is what you seem to be implying.

I've received business wires of 7 figures and absolutely no report was made to the government on them.

Took me about two seconds to find this:
https://www.bankersonline.com/qa/ctr-incoming-wires
CTR on Incoming Wires

Answered by: John BurnettRandy Carey
Question:
When filling out the CTR concerning incoming wires, why do we have to fill out the wire transfer if it is not cash? If does have to be filled out, where do we list the dollar amount in cash-in?
Answer:
Answer by Randy Carey:Unless you are providing cash in an amount over $10,000 to the wire recipient from the incoming wire, a CTR would not be applicable.

Answer:
Answer by John Burnett:Take a step back and look at what the initials CTR stand for: Currency Transaction Report. A wire transfer is not a transaction in currency, per se. If you accept a wire transfer request that is paid for in cash in a reportable amount, you should file a CTR. You'd also file if you receive a wire transfer and the beneficiary takes the proceeds of the wire in cash in a reportable amount. In each of those cases, currency (cash) changes hands. Cash wire transfers (in or out) are rare these days. Most wire transfers are paid for by check or account debit and paid to the beneficiary by check or account credit. The purpose of CTR filing is to provide records of cash transactions.

First published on BankersOnline.com 1/21/08

I transferred, via ACH, a few hundred grand to my stock account from a bank account of mine, towards the end of 2018. I just wanted a little extra money in there to buy some more stock. Of course there was no CTR filed on that!


Anyone, like AxelWolf, who asks for a record of a CTR for a table games player who claims to have just won a million, to try to prove or disprove what happened, is a clueless idiot. Unless the guy cashed a million in currency, there would be no CTR, and even if he did walk out of the casino with a briefcase full of dollars, which is absurd, if there were a CTR for walking out with all cash, a CTR is not something that is ever documented as in shown to the player.

[regnis]

I've been ignored by better than the Dawg.

And here, for redietz, is the hot rib eating wife. Props to the Dawg on this.

[regnis]

Regnis: I am not wrong.

I am sorry but you are hopelessly clueless about any of this. It is painfully obvious that you have never been there. You're posting a bunch of regulations with no clue as to what they mean, or how they are applied.

Let me explain. I am a credit line player. I don't deposit cash. If I win three hundred grand, which I have before, and I ask for the funds to be sent to me by wire, or ask for a check, there is no cash involved, and there will be no CTR.

Let's say, I am a front money player. I present a cashier's check, or I have the money wired in. Again, no cash involved. I win over ten grand and I ask for a check or wire for my win. Again, there will be no CTR.

Let's stop right there regnis, if you can't understand the above the two examples, foregattaboutit, we're not on the same page to begin with.

I mean come on, "involving cash-in and cash-out of more than $10,000." Duh. Do I need to explain what that means, or doesn't mean?

Clearly you can't read the regs. It is not limited to cash.