The WoV Thread

[LMR]

If you believe all that I have some property a little east of Miami you might be interested in.

Get the virus now, while you still have a chance. Or, spend the remainder of your life, just talking about it.

[mickeycrimm]

If you believe all that I have some property a little east of Miami you might be interested in.

Get the virus now, while you still have a chance. Or, spend the remainder of your life, just talking about it.

You are a sock puppet which means you are a gutless coward. So, consequently, you go on my ignore list.

[Darkoz]

The CV count is notoriously corrupt. And you completely ignore the millions of deaths of children worldwide the causation of which is the extreme poverty they are subjected to because of the economic shutdown. STOOOOOOOOPPIIIDDDDD!!!!

Oh, and FUCK YOUR BLOG. It's nothing but socialist bullshit.

Millions of children starved from shutdown? Link please to legit article!

Oh and still waiting for links to violence inside CHAZ that you claimed were posted on YouTube

Are you just going to keep making up bullshit with no proof?

Dude, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Its a well known fact the economic slowdown from the industrialized countries has affected third world countries. It's estimated that over 1 billion people are and will be thrown back into extreme poverty (extreme poverty defined as a family living on less than $5 a day). Its a well known fact the mortality rates for living in extreme poverty are the highest in the world by far. More than a million kids will likely die, along with adults. That's the consequences of the economic shutdown that you and redietz so proudly support.

But you don't have to worry about American kids starving. Our poor have apartments, cars, color TV's and cell phones. Not quite like being poor in a third world country.

Inside CHAZ there are plenty of assaults and property crimes. The occupiers have rules against filming and making videos. Don't get caught. There was a shooting last night still being investigated. People with apartments inside the zone afraid to go in so staying in hotels. But keep the propaganda up.

BTW, Black Lives Matter, the organization that you support, is a marxist organization. The leaders are marxists.

Now, redietz believes the shutdown should continue and fuck poor people going back to work. That's his own words. But on WoV he said he would be visiting LV in July. He's got to see about the futures bets for his customers. You see, futures bets are essential services. So it is essential that redietz make it to LV if he can to get those bets down. Meanwhile, fuck all the poor people. They can stay unemployed.

All I asked for was links to proof.

Clearly you have none.

Case closed

[Darkoz]

Distrust. Examples: The CDC Covid-19 tallying policy, Look where Hitler led the German people, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. Just because a person is technically competent, it doesn't mean they won't say something to advance a particular agenda. If the May mortality figures are running high, it could be because lockdown repercussions are already exerting themselves.

Certainly, suicides, drug overdoses, and domestic violence deaths can be collated away from virus deaths, so I kind of doubt there's any chance of them sneaking up on epidemiologists. Have you examined the annual death totals for these things -- suicides, drug overdoses, and domestic violence so you have some sense of proportion? These figures aren't state secrets. Suicides have been going up for the last 15 years in the U.S., quite dramatically, and it in fact correlates with income inequality growing, but a really bad regular flu year still kills as many people as commit suicide in the United States.

As far as agendas go, I think a sane person would sit back and ask, "What is more likely? That virtually all epidemiologists in the U.S. are lying and that medical examiners are padding figures and that international researchers and writers are colluding to undercount their nations' totals, and that everyone but Fox News is covering this up, including international papers and academics in every country on earth, all in the service of preventing a second Trump term for some reason, or ... maybe 'I'm wrong'?"

If people want to believe in longshot after longshot, that's their prerogative, but if nothing that occurs (say, 200,000 U.S. deaths and still no epidemiologists agree with you and still no international studies show overcounts) can alter your position, then what you have is a religion.

A hospital gets 1.2 million dollars from the feds if its a CV death. Any other cause and they get nothing. Nope, absolutely no room for corruption there. People are as honest as the day is long. No one would dare tamper with the numbers. After all, honesty is the best policy.

If you believe all that I have some property a little east of Miami you might be interested in.

Please supply links to prove this claim.

Again simple request. If what you say is true it should be easy.

Otherwise you just keep spouting nonsense

[Deech]

There is a 20% premium for COVID related services within the hospitals. The estimate is $13,000 for respiratory ailments and $39,000 - $40,000 for patients with ventilator usage. Much of this discussion started in April when Minnesota state senator, Scott Jensen, went on the Ingraham show. After that interview he has stated that he believes that the COVID numbers are under reported.

A Medicare spokesperson went on record and stated that if hospitals make claims with inaccurate diagnosis they will be liable for civil and/or criminal charges. Hence, the fine can be larger than the 20% premium for a "juiced" diagnosis.

I thought I would report this before "Red" had the opportunity. Apparently, there is a significant amount of bad information in the world today. Here are a few articles of which I make my statements.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/v...8-a7a71aae2bd1

[LMR]

If you believe all that I have some property a little east of Miami you might be interested in.

Get the virus now, while you still have a chance. Or, spend the remainder of your life, just talking about it.

You are a sock puppet which means you are a gutless coward. So, consequently, you go on my ignore list.

I meant that it's best to get it while you are younger. The longer you put it off, the less likely to survive it.


mickeycrimm mickeycrimm is offline
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[tableplay]

There is a 20% premium for COVID related services within the hospitals. The estimate is $13,000 for respiratory ailments and $39,000 - $40,000 for patients with ventilator usage. Much of this discussion started in April when Minnesota state senator, Scott Jensen, went on the Ingraham show. After that interview he has stated that he believes that the COVID numbers are under reported.

A Medicare spokesperson went on record and stated that if hospitals make claims with inaccurate diagnosis they will be liable for civil and/or criminal charges. Hence, the fine can be larger than the 20% premium for a "juiced" diagnosis.

I thought I would report this before "Red" had the opportunity. Apparently, there is a significant amount of bad information in the world today. Here are a few articles of which I make my statements.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/v...8-a7a71aae2bd1

Nice posts Mickey and Deech. Moving up the ladder a rung - why are hospitals incentivized to do this ? Because the people doing the incentivizing want their person in the white house rather than Trump.

[mickeycrimm]

Certainly, suicides, drug overdoses, and domestic violence deaths can be collated away from virus deaths, so I kind of doubt there's any chance of them sneaking up on epidemiologists. Have you examined the annual death totals for these things -- suicides, drug overdoses, and domestic violence so you have some sense of proportion? These figures aren't state secrets. Suicides have been going up for the last 15 years in the U.S., quite dramatically, and it in fact correlates with income inequality growing, but a really bad regular flu year still kills as many people as commit suicide in the United States.

As far as agendas go, I think a sane person would sit back and ask, "What is more likely? That virtually all epidemiologists in the U.S. are lying and that medical examiners are padding figures and that international researchers and writers are colluding to undercount their nations' totals, and that everyone but Fox News is covering this up, including international papers and academics in every country on earth, all in the service of preventing a second Trump term for some reason, or ... maybe 'I'm wrong'?"

If people want to believe in longshot after longshot, that's their prerogative, but if nothing that occurs (say, 200,000 U.S. deaths and still no epidemiologists agree with you and still no international studies show overcounts) can alter your position, then what you have is a religion.

A hospital gets 1.2 million dollars from the feds if its a CV death. Any other cause and they get nothing. Nope, absolutely no room for corruption there. People are as honest as the day is long. No one would dare tamper with the numbers. After all, honesty is the best policy.

If you believe all that I have some property a little east of Miami you might be interested in.

Please supply links to prove this claim.

Again simple request. If what you say is true it should be easy.

Otherwise you just keep spouting nonsense

Do your own goddam research, bitch. I’m not your fucking secretary.

[mickeycrimm]

Millions of children starved from shutdown? Link please to legit article!

Oh and still waiting for links to violence inside CHAZ that you claimed were posted on YouTube

Are you just going to keep making up bullshit with no proof?

Dude, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Its a well known fact the economic slowdown from the industrialized countries has affected third world countries. It's estimated that over 1 billion people are and will be thrown back into extreme poverty (extreme poverty defined as a family living on less than $5 a day). Its a well known fact the mortality rates for living in extreme poverty are the highest in the world by far. More than a million kids will likely die, along with adults. That's the consequences of the economic shutdown that you and redietz so proudly support.

But you don't have to worry about American kids starving. Our poor have apartments, cars, color TV's and cell phones. Not quite like being poor in a third world country.

Inside CHAZ there are plenty of assaults and property crimes. The occupiers have rules against filming and making videos. Don't get caught. There was a shooting last night still being investigated. People with apartments inside the zone afraid to go in so staying in hotels. But keep the propaganda up.

BTW, Black Lives Matter, the organization that you support, is a marxist organization. The leaders are marxists.

Now, redietz believes the shutdown should continue and fuck poor people going back to work. That's his own words. But on WoV he said he would be visiting LV in July. He's got to see about the futures bets for his customers. You see, futures bets are essential services. So it is essential that redietz make it to LV if he can to get those bets down. Meanwhile, fuck all the poor people. They can stay unemployed.

All I asked for was links to proof.

Clearly you have none.

Case closed

Put up some links that prove me wrong, bitch. Otherwise, you’re just spouting nonsense.

[The Boz]

Dark Oz, very nice of you to continue to remind the new poster at WoV that he is making political statements and is risking suspension. Only a cynic would suggest you are doing it to point out that he should be suspended. After all it appears he doesn’t agree with you and RED’s liberal view of the world.

EDIT: Actually Discflicker has been a member since 2011. I didn’t remember him posting much over the years.

[The Boz]

Dude, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Its a well known fact the economic slowdown from the industrialized countries has affected third world countries. It's estimated that over 1 billion people are and will be thrown back into extreme poverty (extreme poverty defined as a family living on less than $5 a day). Its a well known fact the mortality rates for living in extreme poverty are the highest in the world by far. More than a million kids will likely die, along with adults. That's the consequences of the economic shutdown that you and redietz so proudly support.

But you don't have to worry about American kids starving. Our poor have apartments, cars, color TV's and cell phones. Not quite like being poor in a third world country.

Inside CHAZ there are plenty of assaults and property crimes. The occupiers have rules against filming and making videos. Don't get caught. There was a shooting last night still being investigated. People with apartments inside the zone afraid to go in so staying in hotels. But keep the propaganda up.

BTW, Black Lives Matter, the organization that you support, is a marxist organization. The leaders are marxists.

Now, redietz believes the shutdown should continue and fuck poor people going back to work. That's his own words. But on WoV he said he would be visiting LV in July. He's got to see about the futures bets for his customers. You see, futures bets are essential services. So it is essential that redietz make it to LV if he can to get those bets down. Meanwhile, fuck all the poor people. They can stay unemployed.

All I asked for was links to proof.

Clearly you have none.

Case closed

Put up some links that prove me wrong, bitch. Otherwise, you’re just spouting nonsense.

Mickey, you don’t understand, Dark Oz has black children so he is in the group that doesn’t have to prove anything anymore. They just say it and we are expected to do it or risk being called a racist.

Unless of course said blacks happen to be conservative or Trump supporters. Then they are called Uncle Tom’s or worse.

[Darkoz]

All I asked for was links to proof.

Clearly you have none.

Case closed

Put up some links that prove me wrong, bitch. Otherwise, you’re just spouting nonsense.

Mickey, you don’t understand, Dark Oz has black children so he is in the group that doesn’t have to prove anything anymore. They just say it and we are expected to do it or risk being called a racist.

Unless of course said blacks happen to be conservative or Trump supporters. Then they are called Uncle Tom’s or worse.

I'm not the one making the claims.

If I make claims I will link to prove it.

Mickey makes lots of farcical claims.

If there was any truth to his statements his reply would be here take a look at this Info you stupid bitch.

Instead his answer is "do your own research stupid bitch"

The implication clearly being he hasn't even done his own research.

So keep listening to someone that makes up farcical comments with no research.

I will keep asking him to prove his farcical statements

I guess you can't handle the truth - famous quote

[Darkoz]

Dark Oz, very nice of you to continue to remind the new poster at WoV that he is making political statements and is risking suspension. Only a cynic would suggest you are doing it to point out that he should be suspended. After all it appears he doesn’t agree with you and RED’s liberal view of the world.

EDIT: Actually Discflicker has been a member since 2011. I didn’t remember him posting much over the years.

I have been suspended for political statements and I damn sure aren't going to listen to any without speaking up.

Absolutely

[monet]

In other news, I am going to do some lump charcoal grilling today.
Gonna grill whole fish with squash, red bell pepper, asparagus, red onion, carrots and musrooms.
I'm inspired by these pictures below.
Time to go do some shopping.

[MDawg]

When you eat at someplace like Costa di Mare (at Wynn, Vegas) or Estiatorio Milos (Cosmopolitan) they bring the same sort of fish you may buy yourself for maybe ten or twenty a pound, and sell it to you for something like an adjusted hundred a pound, but - they always seem to cook it all in one piece and then serve it to you looking still intact. It's hard to get that same presentation at home. But still, the fish tastes the same and it can feel good saving the eighty or ninety bucks a pound, especially these days when it's dangerous to eat out and subject yourself to the potential coronavirus of the restaurant staff and other patrons.

[MDawg]

Health providers are paid for services rendered (even in cases of fraud, such as these Medicare fraud doctors, they are paid for services claimed to have been rendered). No health provider gets a "bonus" or special massive payment of any kind when a patient dies - that conspiracy theory is along the lines of the "straw man [redemption] theory" that the U.S. government has taken out a bond on everyone born and all we need to do is file the proper paperwork to collect.

[Mission146]

When I suspended myself and got banned for telling the Wizard to GFY and Jump Off a Cliff, I was told that Mike is on the spectrum and has some form of Aspergers.
AxelWolf, BBB and others told me this, through PMs, to calm me down and to not take it too serious what he said about a certain gambler and pictures on his phone.
Mike stated that I got banned for creating a duplicate account named PingPangPong and he was the only one on the site who didn't know it was monet.
BBB contacted me through PM, telling me that she knew it was me and wanted to know if I wanted to reinstate monet or PingPangPong.
I replied that the name monet could be a problem and that I probably should keep PingPangPong.
So she weaved some stories through PMs to Mike and others that they needed to reinstate me under PingPangPong.
In hindsight, I was ignorant and didn't read the rules of the forum.
Directly being derogatory to Mike was what really got me banned because they were working on a suspension before that.
It might of been a few weeks suspension from what I gathered.
Later, creating more duplicates/socks and posting got me nuked.
I still have a bunch they never caught but I hardly post over there anymore.

This is one I don't remember much about because I don't think I knew a whole lot about it until the tail end of the thing, you'll forgive me for even forgetting why you originally resigned as Monet.

I see there was light chatter about this ban (of you and socks) in the Discussion About the Suspension List thread, and I defended you against someone because they said you didn't add any value to the forum:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info...06/#post618347

But, yeah, that came right in the wake of the WoN thing where it was decided we were going to be pretty hardcore about socks. Absent evidence to the contrary, I think that stance has remained pretty firm ever since. It was only a few months after this I would resign, though, so I can't really say for sure.

Anything having to do with Monet/PingPongPang---I just looked back through PM's---which I almost never delete---it doesn't seem that I was consulted. If I had been consulted, my advice would have just been to ban PingPongPang and give you the option of coming back as Monet....but again, we were being pretty hardcore about socks, at the time.

You know me, I always bent over backwards in favor of people staying if they created/participated in good gambling conversations.

After the whole incident Mike said that he and his crew had strayed from policy and that is when WizardOfNothing got banned/nuked.
It appears that he was on the site formally as StrictlyAP and everyone knew he was WizardOfNothing except the Leader Mike, yet again lol.
So they got rid of WoN.
Later, WoN got involved in scandals ripping members off as they let him recruit members through the Private Message Back Door.
They even let him advertise his recruitment for a long time in his signature.
Mission146 had his own debacle dealing with the site and WoN.
WoN actually PMed me a few times telling me about some mistake or play.
I never once responded to him as I figured it was some sort of a set up.

I'm getting tired of being continuously brought up with this because now we're talking about two years ago, actually longer, if you get right down to it. I'm going to toss you out a couple of FACTS, a few of which, I don't think I've ever openly said on the Forums.

1.) Lots of people knew StrictlyAP = WizardofNothing, and that's precisely WHY some people did not want the WoN account banned. They figured he would just come back with another sock, make some decent gambling-related posts and then everyone would have to figure out who was him all over again.

It's easier to ban someone for purely posting reasons and just be done with it because they'll generally not come back as a sock, or if they do, they'll make it pretty obvious-sometimes intentionally.

Anyway, some people---who can identify themselves if they like---but if they were to ever deny it---I have the receipts---wanted to keep him on there as WoN to kind of keep track of what he was doing. How involved they got with those sorts of things I have no idea, because very few-if any-people ever directly asked me about him. In the rare event they did, I basically just said the equivalent of, "Watch your ass," as I would when it comes to working with anyone.

2.) Any work that I did with WoN was mostly related to getting cards, helping him run coin-in in AC---and, rarely---picking up offers out there if he wasn't available to do it. When I would get cards for him, that was mostly involving myself and people I knew directly from outside of the forums (essentially family members and co-workers, mostly) who I would give the cliffnotes version of what the purpose of the cards is. They didn't really care, anyway, because in almost all cases these would be people who needed some extra bucks, didn't really (or ever) gamble and it was just some quick cash.

3.) The ONLY occasion that I ever hooked WoN up with a forum member was someone who is a personal friend of mine off the forums and he specifically asked me (the forum member) to set it up. That also consisted of just getting some cards and he also knew what the reason for the cards was. The main reason I denied this is because I didn't want to get him involved in all of the forum drama, and also because he specifically approached me about setting it up. When asked if I could guarantee everything would go down smoothly, my answer was, "Nope. Probably will, but I can't guarantee it. Obviously, if he screws you over in any way, he loses any chance of me doing anything with him ever again."

4.) I couldn't name who---other than the people who came out and said something about it---that he tried to discuss anything with via PM because Admins have no access to that. I also couldn't have banned him, even if I had wanted to, absent the WoN account doing something untowardly on the actual forum because people specifically wanted him to post under that so an eye can be kept on him.

-Because I'm sure you'll ask, Wizard was NOT one of those people. At least, not by way of any direct conversation that I can remember.

5.) The big thing that went down with me was that I deleted a post with a link in it that directly doxxed him. The website name was literally his full name, but mainly, I was concerned because his wife's name and---I think---picture also appeared on the site. As far as she goes, I've literally never spoken to her in my life and have absolutely zero reason to believe that she had anything to do with anything casino-related, aside from with WoN himself directly. I've certainly never seen anyone say anything to the contrary, and guilt-by-association doesn't really fly, in my book.***

***And, as you see, even this site has rules against Doxxing. That's how clear cut of a rule it is in the message board world.

6.) Prior to that, I'd taken some flak for editing another post, or posts, that doxxed him. This was addressed by someone else, via PM, who I won't identify. My answer was pretty simply that while I don't personally vouch for him, and while he may have engaged in scamming conduct with people (I did not know this for a fact---particularly not at this time) the rules protect anyone and everyone against Doxxing.

7.) I was in a uniquely tough position because he was banned as StrictlyAP (this is before I'd ever worked with him or knew his real name---maybe first name) for reasons that I disagreed with. A Secret Admin essentially Nuked him for welching on a bet that was in dispute between the two (SAP and someone else, not the Secret Admin himself). At this time, there was no rule that existed that would even justify such a ban. Even if there had been, I was also irked by the fact that a Secret Admin (who I didn't oversee at all and also have no idea who a few of them even were) was going around just banning people without consulting with Greens first. I was REALLY pissed about that, in fact.

My other concern was kind of a quasi-legal concern to the extent that I didn't think the site, in any official capacity, has any business enforcing bets. That's why I always tell the winners of the WoV Picks Game to keep track themselves, because I'm not enforcing anything...but they can post who pays or fails to as they like.

But, overall, those were just my objections. My objections were not so strenuous that I would have made them emphatically in a public way. Publicly I basically said that I was essentially neutral, or disagreed, but wouldn't really take a hard stance against the ban.

CONCLUSION:

In any event, I resigned after all of this because there were several people I expected to come out and make a much better defense for me. Nobody wanted their heads, though, so I could see why they wouldn't. I couldn't really say much about much because just about everything involved private conversations, so it's for them to have brought these things to light, not for me, which is why my defense of myself was so weak. I was also being attacked by a few people, though amends have been made, who I believed (or knew) to have knowledge of one or more of the points above.

But, the main thing is that I resigned and the only person on the Forum where I acted as a hookup of any kind directly asked me to do it. I even told all who I would have go get the cards that there was a very good chance they would later get a letter in the mail trespassing them from the casino, but since they were likely never going to AC again, that was up to them. More people than not refused to go after I made them aware of what the whole thing consists of, which is fine, but I wasn't going to be bringing people out there without them knowing exactly what's going on.

The main point is that it is all about the back door PM system.
They Lie, Cheat and Steal and operate as a group within the group.
Lesson Learned for me though as I didn't realize how serious forum rules actually are on most sites.
WoV was only my second Forum I had ever posted on.
I literally didn't realize you could get banned from Forums/Websites lol.
I never had a problem for years on Civfanatics Forum because all I every posted was questions, strategies and game experience.
I never got any return for my kindness towards meeting these people in person.
It became clear that people were looking for a sponsor for the most part.
I gave away over a thousand in comp and spent some cash on drinks and pool time.
It cost me a little headache giving a drunk a ride to a 7/11.
I'm easy going though and have no problem giving away comp and I even give homeless people working the corner cash from time to time.
I'm still the Bad Guy though and don't ever forget that!
Whatever, sorry for this wall of text as you kiddies say.

Again, I don't know what all goes on via PM or who talks to whom. For my part, I've recently been corresponding with someone (looking for tips and just BS'ing) who I told to never give me information aside from good machine titles I should be looking for. I told him never to reveal specific plays or casinos to me, at all, because if he ever gets competition for anything---he'll know the tip didn't come from me.

From an AP perspective, I'm pretty much just generally inclined to avoid everyone, when it comes to doing any related work. Maybe once in a while I might, with various people, but that would mainly be if the money is okay, guaranteed and I'm in the mood to go out of town to begin with.

[LMR]

After Mission and the BBB took over, was when there was nothing left to even troll. The final "roar" of a moron's view of gambling. I was surprised to see Eliot J. on here, for a few days. Textbook case of some sort and degree of professional "burnout". Pitiful.

This is one I don't remember much about because I don't think I knew a whole lot about it until the tail end of the thing, you'll forgive me for even forgetting why you originally resigned as Monet.

I see there was light chatter about this ban (of you and socks) in the Discussion About the Suspension List thread, and I defended you against someone because they said you didn't add any value to the forum:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info...06/#post618347

But, yeah, that came right in the wake of the WoN thing where it was decided we were going to be pretty hardcore about socks. Absent evidence to the contrary, I think that stance has remained pretty firm ever since. It was only a few months after this I would resign, though, so I can't really say for sure.

Anything having to do with Monet/PingPongPang---I just looked back through PM's---which I almost never delete---it doesn't seem that I was consulted. If I had been consulted, my advice would have just been to ban PingPongPang and give you the option of coming back as Monet....but again, we were being pretty hardcore about socks, at the time.

You know me, I always bent over backwards in favor of people staying if they created/participated in good gambling conversations.



I'm getting tired of being continuously brought up with this because now we're talking about two years ago, actually longer, if you get right down to it. I'm going to toss you out a couple of FACTS, a few of which, I don't think I've ever openly said on the Forums.

1.) Lots of people knew StrictlyAP = WizardofNothing, and that's precisely WHY some people did not want the WoN account banned. They figured he would just come back with another sock, make some decent gambling-related posts and then everyone would have to figure out who was him all over again.

It's easier to ban someone for purely posting reasons and just be done with it because they'll generally not come back as a sock, or if they do, they'll make it pretty obvious-sometimes intentionally.

Anyway, some people---who can identify themselves if they like---but if they were to ever deny it---I have the receipts---wanted to keep him on there as WoN to kind of keep track of what he was doing. How involved they got with those sorts of things I have no idea, because very few-if any-people ever directly asked me about him. In the rare event they did, I basically just said the equivalent of, "Watch your ass," as I would when it comes to working with anyone.

2.) Any work that I did with WoN was mostly related to getting cards, helping him run coin-in in AC---and, rarely---picking up offers out there if he wasn't available to do it. When I would get cards for him, that was mostly involving myself and people I knew directly from outside of the forums (essentially family members and co-workers, mostly) who I would give the cliffnotes version of what the purpose of the cards is. They didn't really care, anyway, because in almost all cases these would be people who needed some extra bucks, didn't really (or ever) gamble and it was just some quick cash.

3.) The ONLY occasion that I ever hooked WoN up with a forum member was someone who is a personal friend of mine off the forums and he specifically asked me (the forum member) to set it up. That also consisted of just getting some cards and he also knew what the reason for the cards was. The main reason I denied this is because I didn't want to get him involved in all of the forum drama, and also because he specifically approached me about setting it up. When asked if I could guarantee everything would go down smoothly, my answer was, "Nope. Probably will, but I can't guarantee it. Obviously, if he screws you over in any way, he loses any chance of me doing anything with him ever again."

4.) I couldn't name who---other than the people who came out and said something about it---that he tried to discuss anything with via PM because Admins have no access to that. I also couldn't have banned him, even if I had wanted to, absent the WoN account doing something untowardly on the actual forum because people specifically wanted him to post under that so an eye can be kept on him.

-Because I'm sure you'll ask, Wizard was NOT one of those people. At least, not by way of any direct conversation that I can remember.

5.) The big thing that went down with me was that I deleted a post with a link in it that directly doxxed him. The website name was literally his full name, but mainly, I was concerned because his wife's name and---I think---picture also appeared on the site. As far as she goes, I've literally never spoken to her in my life and have absolutely zero reason to believe that she had anything to do with anything casino-related, aside from with WoN himself directly. I've certainly never seen anyone say anything to the contrary, and guilt-by-association doesn't really fly, in my book.***

***And, as you see, even this site has rules against Doxxing. That's how clear cut of a rule it is in the message board world.

6.) Prior to that, I'd taken some flak for editing another post, or posts, that doxxed him. This was addressed by someone else, via PM, who I won't identify. My answer was pretty simply that while I don't personally vouch for him, and while he may have engaged in scamming conduct with people (I did not know this for a fact---particularly not at this time) the rules protect anyone and everyone against Doxxing.

7.) I was in a uniquely tough position because he was banned as StrictlyAP (this is before I'd ever worked with him or knew his real name---maybe first name) for reasons that I disagreed with. A Secret Admin essentially Nuked him for welching on a bet that was in dispute between the two (SAP and someone else, not the Secret Admin himself). At this time, there was no rule that existed that would even justify such a ban. Even if there had been, I was also irked by the fact that a Secret Admin (who I didn't oversee at all and also have no idea who a few of them even were) was going around just banning people without consulting with Greens first. I was REALLY pissed about that, in fact.

My other concern was kind of a quasi-legal concern to the extent that I didn't think the site, in any official capacity, has any business enforcing bets. That's why I always tell the winners of the WoV Picks Game to keep track themselves, because I'm not enforcing anything...but they can post who pays or fails to as they like.

But, overall, those were just my objections. My objections were not so strenuous that I would have made them emphatically in a public way. Publicly I basically said that I was essentially neutral, or disagreed, but wouldn't really take a hard stance against the ban.

CONCLUSION:

In any event, I resigned after all of this because there were several people I expected to come out and make a much better defense for me. Nobody wanted their heads, though, so I could see why they wouldn't. I couldn't really say much about much because just about everything involved private conversations, so it's for them to have brought these things to light, not for me, which is why my defense of myself was so weak. I was also being attacked by a few people, though amends have been made, who I believed (or knew) to have knowledge of one or more of the points above.

But, the main thing is that I resigned and the only person on the Forum where I acted as a hookup of any kind directly asked me to do it. I even told all who I would have go get the cards that there was a very good chance they would later get a letter in the mail trespassing them from the casino, but since they were likely never going to AC again, that was up to them. More people than not refused to go after I made them aware of what the whole thing consists of, which is fine, but I wasn't going to be bringing people out there without them knowing exactly what's going on.

The main point is that it is all about the back door PM system.
They Lie, Cheat and Steal and operate as a group within the group.
Lesson Learned for me though as I didn't realize how serious forum rules actually are on most sites.
WoV was only my second Forum I had ever posted on.
I literally didn't realize you could get banned from Forums/Websites lol.
I never had a problem for years on Civfanatics Forum because all I every posted was questions, strategies and game experience.
I never got any return for my kindness towards meeting these people in person.
It became clear that people were looking for a sponsor for the most part.
I gave away over a thousand in comp and spent some cash on drinks and pool time.
It cost me a little headache giving a drunk a ride to a 7/11.
I'm easy going though and have no problem giving away comp and I even give homeless people working the corner cash from time to time.
I'm still the Bad Guy though and don't ever forget that!
Whatever, sorry for this wall of text as you kiddies say.

Again, I don't know what all goes on via PM or who talks to whom. For my part, I've recently been corresponding with someone (looking for tips and just BS'ing) who I told to never give me information aside from good machine titles I should be looking for. I told him never to reveal specific plays or casinos to me, at all, because if he ever gets competition for anything---he'll know the tip didn't come from me.

From an AP perspective, I'm pretty much just generally inclined to avoid everyone, when it comes to doing any related work. Maybe once in a while I might, with various people, but that would mainly be if the money is okay, guaranteed and I'm in the mood to go out of town to begin with.

TLDR.

[Mission146]

TLDR.

That's fine, it was mainly for Monet. Also, kind of for a few people who I know lurk here, but not really.

[Mission146]

But, the main thing is that I resigned and the only person on the Forum where I acted as a hookup of any kind directly asked me to do it.

Asked me to hook them up, not to resign.