Acres case study indicates advantage players have edge playing video poker

[mickeycrimm]

The software is now available:

https://cdcgaming.com/acres-case-stu...g-video-poker/

[Don Perignom]

The software is now available

Is this new? A release was mentioned in 2021 if not earlier:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301333495.html

I look forward to the casinos 86ing customers who play 9/5 TDB accurately.

[jdog]

I think that software has been around for at least a few years but they seem to be selling it harder now. 1% of VP players are APs but they account for 26% of coin in?? That sounds like a bit of a stretch... and then somehow this software is going to increase your VP revenue 45%?? Just silliness.

[Don Perignom]

Just silliness.

Full report on their site:

https://acresmanufacturing.com/advantage-video-poker/

It seems so dumb, I think I must be misunderstanding it. They took a sample, measuring player accuracy. The most accurate players beat the house substantially.

This is news to me. Where are these games that exceed 100%? I occasionally play positive progressives, but everything else is negative. My edge comes from the slot club.

It's true that I play accurately, but if I had an idea they were monitoring me, I could sprinkle in some errors for cover.

They seem to insinuate that accurate play automatically confers an advantage. If only it were that easy.

[accountinquestion]

It suggests they do analysis by individual hands. Thst info isn't broadcast by the machine, right? I don't think machines have some plugin ability? Like a browser or something similar. So how does this even work?

[mickeycrimm]

It suggests they do analysis by individual hands. Thst info isn't broadcast by the machine, right? I don't think machines have some plugin ability? Like a browser or something similar. So how does this even work?

The technology is actually pretty old. The Winpoker software for analyzing and learning vp games is 27 year old technology. In the pic below I put it in training mode, played some hands at 9/6 Jacks (99.54%)and intentionally made 14 errors. In the upper right hand corner it showed that I was playing at only 98.14% of optimum.

If one routinely makes those same mistakes it turns a 99.54% game into a 97.7% game. This would be valuable information to slot operations or marketing or whatever. Offers can be based on how good or bad the player is.

In this training mode you can turn on the warning feature that will tell you when you're making a mistake.

[accountinquestion]

It suggests they do analysis by individual hands. Thst info isn't broadcast by the machine, right? I don't think machines have some plugin ability? Like a browser or something similar. So how does this even work?

The technology is actually pretty old. The Winpoker software for analyzing and learning vp games is 27 year old technology. In the pic below I put it in training mode, played some hands at 9/6 Jacks (99.54%)and intentionally made 14 errors. In the upper right hand corner it showed that I was playing at only 98.14% of optimum.

If one routinely makes those same mistakes it turns a 99.54% game into a 97.7% game. This would be valuable information to slot operations or marketing or whatever. Offers can be based on how good or bad the player is.

In this training mode you can turn on the warning feature that will tell you when you're making a mistake.

The code/calculations are straight forward. I ran into a guy playing poker out of state who had written this sort of thing. It really isn't hard at all for someone with a high enough IQ. If you were a coder, you'd be able to create this technology. I suspect you could do it on your own if you really desired. Your aptitude for analyzing machine equity suggests to me that you could do such a thing. (big learning curve on the coding)

The problem is that they have to integrate this with existing machines. Or replace the machines. So if you don't replace the machines, then the error analysis has to either be done on the backend or inside the machine itself.

Do gamemaster (?) video poker machines have some plugin capability to run the analyzer on the same machine? Given gaming laws and many other factors - this does NOT seem likely. (Gamemaster would implement this themselves before they'd architect some plugin capability which would just open up tons of potential security issues).

So that leaves that some backend system looks at the errors but then the backend systems need to know what was dealt/selected. And for that to happen the VP machine has to broadcast what happened.

Maybe there are some select newer machines this works on. Maybe you upgrade the VP machines enough and they have a capability to send the player's actions to a central server? This is the only thing that makes sense to me if they are analyzing per hand.

My guess is they don't believe their own marketing. They're grasping for straws and so they get someone to just make up some bullshit. Perhaps backed with some real set of numbers. The truth though is that theyd never be sued for lying in their marketing like that so I'm not sure it matters. Just make up crazy numbers and away they go.

[DGenBen]

Sounds like they want to sell software.

Casinos are posting record profits & with things like increased competition, online gaming, retaining & hiring new employees in a tight labor market, I would think that finding AP Video poker players is pretty low on the list.

Especially when VP is sort of a dying game except in big locals markets.

[Garnabby]

Save the "sticks, and stones" for after WWIII. Ha.

In other words, the casinos already know more about you guys than you do.

[DGenBen]

Save the "sticks, and stones" for after WWIII. Ha.

In other words, the casinos already know more about you guys than you do.

Speaking of WWIII they say a nuclear winter would block out the sun & drastically reduce temperatures, so wouldn’t WWIII be a good thing as it would cure for Global Warming?

[Don Perignom]

Speaking of WWIII they say a nuclear winter would block out the sun & drastically reduce temperatures, so wouldn’t WWIII be a good thing as it would cure for Global Warming?

Correct.

[accountinquestion]

Save the "sticks, and stones" for after WWIII. Ha.

In other words, the casinos already know more about you guys than you do.

Speaking of WWIII they say a nuclear winter would block out the sun & drastically reduce temperatures, so wouldn’t WWIII be a good thing as it would cure for Global Warming?

Only good because it kills off so many people who keep making it worse but the dust will settle and it will be back the way it was. So the only "cure" is the death of people by nukes. The dust would just be temporary so not really a solution.

I know you're not serious but I'm just saying ..

[Don Perignom]

So the only "cure" is the death of people by nukes.

Is there a registry where I can submit my preferred pronouns for the death certificate?

[jdog]

VP is sort of a dying game except in big locals markets.

There's the rub. A sophisticated system must be put in place to make this work because a 30yo Game King is not designed to do this. So why bother when casinos are already doing their best to phase VP out?

[smurgerburger]

Pretty sure all VP machines log the hands played for the same reason that slot machines log the spins. At the very least there needs to be some kind of record to check for payout errors or other malfunctions.

I know player tracking systems are able to distinguish between different games on the same machine.

[DGenBen]

So the only "cure" is the death of people by nukes.

Is there a registry where I can submit my preferred pronouns for the death certificate?

Actually if there is anything good about the tranny craze it probably lowers the odds of WWIII.

Why would anyone want to nuke to us when we’re already cutting off our own dicks?

[accountinquestion]

Pretty sure all VP machines log the hands played for the same reason that slot machines log the spins. At the very least there needs to be some kind of record to check for payout errors or other malfunctions.

I know player tracking systems are able to distinguish between different games on the same machine.

This makes sense too but I wonder what the nature of the hand log is? It is accessible remotely? That would be easiest enough though. Just grab log file every so often and read the results.

For most shops VP isn't a big deal but AC seems very different. For a place like AC I could see it making sense. It would allow them to throw a lot more at the bad players to keep them coming back. The difference between a perfect player and a bad player could be 3x (or more) on the same coinin.

If a casino gives perks by coin-in only and isn't that sharp then maybe the software marketing doesn't have crazy numbers. I suspect most casinos are far more sophisticated than this to even be an issue anymore.

Basically this is software that gives people like Rob Singer more cookies. lol.

Good for Rob.

[jdog]

If a casino gives perks by coin-in only and isn't that sharp then maybe the software marketing doesn't have crazy numbers. I suspect most casinos are far more sophisticated than this to even be an issue anymore.

This is why many casinos calculate comps based on losses or a calc of loss & theo. This software tells you how much a player is theoretically losing or winning on VP play only... what's the point?? They already have loss numbers on overall rated play which is more valuable.

So if an AP is playing a +EV progressive without a card is this software going to send a notification in real time to send someone over there and toss them out?? I'm thinking probably not. Just trying to figure out what possible benefits there could be.

[accountinquestion]

If a casino gives perks by coin-in only and isn't that sharp then maybe the software marketing doesn't have crazy numbers. I suspect most casinos are far more sophisticated than this to even be an issue anymore.

This is why many casinos calculate comps based on losses or a calc of loss & theo. This software tells you how much a player is theoretically losing or winning on VP play only... what's the point?? They already have loss numbers on overall rated play which is more valuable.

So if an AP is playing a +EV progressive without a card is this software going to send a notification in real time to send someone over there and toss them out?? I'm thinking probably not. Just trying to figure out what possible benefits there could be.

They give out free play by an additional metric or they could still use theoretical loss only. They just calculate it differently.

[jdog]

They just calculate it differently.

Yeah they sure do. They imply a casino could increase their VP revenue by as much as 45% lol. C'mon, it's snake oil and I think most operators can see that.