The WoV Thread

[Darkoz]

I generally have my workers do 20 cards apiece.

Do the workers get a TITO after each card, or just one big ticket at the end of playing the 20 cards, or some other combination ?

Different Tito's.

They don't sit at the same machines doing 20 cards. They get up and find new ones. Perhaps if a casino is extremely crowded they might stay at one machine for a few

[Darkoz]

Unless I am mistaken and attributing the comment to someone else, Dark disputed that "using other peoples' players cards" was his main scam. Now he appears to be saying that is all he does. Assuming then this low end scam is what he does:

The primary claim MLM businesses make is that all one needs to do is sign up 2 or 3 new members, and then if each of them signs up 2 or 3, one will become fabulously rich. The problem - as this multi level everyone signs up and then everyone's everyone also signs up - happens, is that the entire earth's population is exhausted within something like 13 weeks. In other words, it's impossible to sustain this constant sign up of new members.

From what I understand, free play comes to NEW players, and to sign up for a card one needs an ID. So unless this guy is running some highly illegal scam with identity fraud, he'd need a new body to walk in to collect each new player card. If each new player card is good for only a hundred bucks, to rake in a million a year he'd need 10,000 identities a year, new identities. There is just no way he could convince that many new players to walk in and do this, working the homeless he knows from his past, or not.

And even if it WERE possible, bringing in an army of new players weekly, both these new players and the "workers" he mentions who are assuming the identities of the new players, would need to get paid, so he personally still wouldn't be netting anywhere near what he claims.

I never disputed using multiple players cards.

I disputed using them the way you describe.

[coach belly]

I know one place that any card with offers more than $100 a day gets scrutiny and cutoff.

My impression is that Boz was referring to "getting hosted"...when a player inserts his card and a floor greeter or junior host gets pinged and greets the player almost immediately.

Not necessarily a crackdown maneuver, more of a gesture of recognition by the house.

I would imagine that greeting players who get $2K per day in free play would be a priority for the player development staff.

[coach belly]

Different Tito's.

They don't sit at the same machines doing 20 cards.

Are the TITOs consolidated at some point, or do you feed 80 tickets into the redemption kiosk?

How about when you play the VBJ...aren't the options much more limited than slots and wouldn't that require more time that 90 seconds each?

[MDawg]

The only free play you get that's truly free on these cards is for new players. And as noted above, which he could not refute, the numbers do not add up - he could not sustain the new player sign up as there simply could not be enough free bodies who have never stepped foot in the casino willing to just hand over their free play to this guy.

As far as "earned" free play along the way, he's playing stupid machines, with no edge, with no special skills, which almost no one wins at, so the earned after the initial sign up free play would not be expected to be of value against the actual coin input.

So we're back to his needing an army - something like 10000 new players per year - all willing to hand over 100% of their free play to him for nothing, and an army of workers willing to work for free, in order for him personally to net a million a year. He is not making that much a year.

It's a low end, unsustainable, scam that according to him puts food in the mouths of a group of people, is all. Not putting it down per se, but I can see perhaps how it would seem like Xanadu to someone recently coming from the streets.

I mean when I win ten or twenty grand at the casinos in the back of my mind is how I am wasting my time, because there are so many much bigger ventures for me. I do the casinos for fun. The thrill of beating them.

[Rob.Singer]

I haven't been reading often here but is this Dark oz a product of WoV?

Everyone already knows there is no way to operate in the manner he describes. And every question posed results in him concocting impossible responses.

Follow blackhole's advice and let the guy talk to himself. I'm perfectly fine with him virtually paying for our SS each month.

[Darkoz]

Different Tito's.

They don't sit at the same machines doing 20 cards.

Are the TITOs consolidated at some point, or do you feed 80 tickets into the redemption kiosk?

How about when you play the VBJ...aren't the options much more limited than slots and wouldn't that require more time that 90 seconds each?

They consolidate the Tito's at the redemption machine

While it's possible that could result in a trace back it never has.

I'm not sure what your point is about VBJ. Hit draw look at the options, stand or hit. Some places allow double/split options so maybe a few extra seconds to decide.

Not a big deal

[Darkoz]

The only free play you get that's truly free on these cards is for new players. And as noted above, which he could not refute, the numbers do not add up - he could not sustain the new player sign up as there simply could not be enough free bodies who have never stepped foot in the casino willing to just hand over their free play to this guy.

As far as "earned" free play along the way, he's playing stupid machines, with no edge, with no special skills, which almost no one wins at, so the earned after the initial sign up free play would not be expected to be of value against the actual coin input.

So we're back to his needing an army - something like 10000 new players per year - all willing to hand over 100% of their free play to him for nothing, and an army of workers willing to work for free, in order for him personally to net a million a year. He is not making that much a year.

It's a low end, unsustainable, scam that according to him puts food in the mouths of a group of people, is all. Not putting it down per se, but I can see perhaps how it would seem like Xanadu to someone recently coming from the streets.

I mean when I win ten or twenty grand at the casinos in the back of my mind is how I am wasting my time, because there are so many much bigger ventures for me. I do the casinos for fun. The thrill of beating them.

You are simply wrong in your assessment of what and how to achieve earned freeplay.

[coach belly]

I'm not sure what your point is about VBJ.

You wrote that your workers don't play all 20 cards at the same machine, they move around.

I asked how does that apply to when you do the same at VBJ? Do you move around? Doesn't that take time beyond the 90 seconds play time? Do most properties have 20+ VBJ machines?

[Keystone]

Sounds like jealous to me

Talk about full blown bullshitting self proclaimed alleged AP's, it don't get much better than this snakey, con-artist's sample.

What's even more hilarious then this bullshitter's comments are the fools here looking to debate his obvious bullshit.

Why would anyone even care? Just ignore the asshole and let him fade away. The worst it could get after ignoring him is just another meaningless annoying Tasha swinging around in the branches dropping assorted fruits on you as you walk by.

LOL

[Darkoz]

I'm not sure what your point is about VBJ.

You wrote that your workers don't play all 20 cards at the same machine, they move around.

I asked how does that apply to when you do the same at VBJ? Do you move around? Doesn't that take time beyond the 90 seconds play time? Do most properties have 20+ VBJ machines?

I was referring to the amount of time for gameplay. Yes there is time required to switch machines, enter pins, download freeplay.

It's not a half hour job but it's not a 8 hour job either

[coach belly]

They consolidate the Tito's at the redemption machine

Did you mean that they feed all their TITOs into the redemption machine which then dispenses cash? How many tickets can these machines accept at one time?

By consolidating the TITOs I meant consolidating a large number of smaller tickets into one larger ticket for redemption...while sitting at a gaming machine, rather than feeding many tickets into the redemption machine while other players line up behind you and observe.

[coach belly]

It's not a half hour job

You wrote earlier that you could run 20 cards in one hour at VBJ.

3 minutes per card?

[Darkoz]

They consolidate the Tito's at the redemption machine

Did you mean that they feed all their TITOs into the redemption machine which then dispenses cash? How many tickets can these machines accept at one time?

By consolidating the TITOs I meant consolidating a large number of smaller tickets into one larger ticket for redemption...while sitting at a gaming machine, rather than feeding many tickets into the redemption machine while other players line up behind you and observe.

20 tickets at a redemption machine isn't that many.

I have seen people put in a whole bunch of vouchers for pennies apiece.

The average redemption machine may do 6 - 10 Tito's at a time.

They are designed that way. Nothing special about it.

[Darkoz]

It's not a half hour job

You wrote earlier that you could run 20 cards in one hour at VBJ.

3 minutes per card?

I believe I said 90 minutes.

Really how long does it take you guys to do ten hands of VBJ?

[coach belly]

It's not a half hour job

You wrote earlier that you could run 20 cards in one hour at VBJ.

3 minutes per card?

I believe I said 90 minutes.

Of course if there is VBJ accepting freeplay then even better. I can handle 20 cards in an hour.

Really how long does it take you guys to do ten hands of VBJ?

Insert the card, download the FP, play 10 hands, cash out, move to another machine...that could take somewhat longer than 3 minutes.

Like you wrote earlier, it often takes longer than 3 minutes just for the download.

[coach belly]

I have seen people put in a whole bunch of vouchers for pennies apiece.

Those people are confused or otherwise compromised.

Doesn't it make more sense to sit down and consolidate 20 smaller TITOs into one large one, than to stand there feeding 20 tickets into the redemption machine?

[Darkoz]

I have seen people put in a whole bunch of vouchers for pennies apiece.

Those people are confused or otherwise compromised.

Doesn't it make more sense to sit down and consolidate 20 smaller TITOs into one large one, than to stand there feeding 20 tickets into the redemption machine?

At some places it does. In general it's not a big deal.

I do know of a few places that will not only lock a players card but lock the Tito earned from the card as well. Merging tickets can lead to more than one Tito affected and them tracking the cards.

Cashing out at the redemption machine will just result in a flagged voucher being spit back out. No merging or tracing will happen.

It's a rare event though.

[Darkoz]

I believe I said 90 minutes.

Of course if there is VBJ accepting freeplay then even better. I can handle 20 cards in an hour.

Really how long does it take you guys to do ten hands of VBJ?

Insert the card, download the FP, play 10 hands, cash out, move to another machine...that could take somewhat longer than 3 minutes.

Like you wrote earlier, it often takes longer than 3 minutes just for the download.

Okay misspoke. I probably could do it in an hour but extremely rushed.

Definitely 90 minutes it could be done.

I think you asked me if casinos have 20 VBJ machines for me to do 20 cards with. That's not necessary. Plenty of machines have players use freeplay all day long. I don't need 20 machines to throw the casino off the track.

Really I only need three. Or even two.

I just mean switching seats and games. It makes it look like you are just a player removing your card and switching seats. Not liking the game and switching back.

It's so you are not observed "Card Flipping" that is pulling out and replacing cards in the same machine.

There is nothing suspicious about taking your card out when you get up and putting it in when you sit down. Doing it at the same seat could be

[coach belly]

I do know of a few places that will not only lock a players card but lock the Tito earned from the card as well.

If the TITO earned from a card is locked, then I'm assuming the card is locked during the use of FP redeemed with that card. Is that correct?

Under what circumstances would the casino lock a player's card during play?