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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #4381
    Originally Posted by Kaboom View Post
    Looks like Mission146 went apeshit on Diversity Tomorrow and threatened to fight someone.
    Shackleford stepped in and suspended him, and he also stripped him of his moderating duties lol

    http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/3236/17/#post144626
    Mission was right about what is going on. Peaceful protests being hijacked by subversives bent on the destruction of the city and America.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #4382
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Without the electoral college New York and California would elect all the national leaders.
    All the national leaders? What national leaders do you mean?
    All presidential races. They would win every one of them.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #4383
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post

    Mainly, I don't like the Electoral College system, even though there's a very outside chance that my party will benefit from it one day. I've really warmed up to The Constitution, as late, because I hypothesized a country where it was actually followed and it's a pretty good one.

    Unlike present party and other assorted trolls here, I don't remember much about it because I tend not to pay attention or have any concern about matters that have nothing to do with me.
    Without the electoral college New York and California would elect all the national leaders. When you see national polls that say Biden 46% Trump 42%, take Cali and NY out of that equation and Trump leads.
    No president can win with just two states electorally so that's just not true.

    However if it was true that the population of NY and Cali could outvote the other 48 states then it probably means they should get to decide the next election. Your argument would be if the mass of the population is all congregated in two states that's less valid than if a minority of people are spread out.

    Which makes no sense to me
    New York and California are not like most states. They have an over-abundence of liberals. It's way lopsided. Hillary easily won the popular vote in 2016 because of surplus liberal votes out of New York and California. With no electoral college it would have been this super majority of liberal votes in both states that made the difference.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  4. #4384
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Right now, about .5% of the population elects the president. In 2016, it was basically 4 states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida. Trump happened to win them all narrowly. In 2020, it looks like it will be Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida again, with Arizona and North Carolina joining. Michigan seems to fairly solidly heading back blue. So we may have 5 states this election that decide. And really it is 1 or 2 swing counties in each of these swings states that really decide, so it is even a smaller number of people that really elect the president. And because of that 40-45 states don't see either candidate from either party. All the campaigning is done in those 4-5 swing states. So in a sense the rest of us, our vote doesn't matter. Only a handful of voters in a few key states do.

    Right now the republicans and republican supporters want no part of fixing the electoral college problem. But Texas is on the verge of turning blue. Probably not this election, but clearly demographics are changing and in the next election or two it will be blue. So just imagine, in 2024, or 2028, a democrat running for president wins California, New York, Texas, and maybe a swing state of Florida. All they need is another 4 or 5 states and they are over 270. And maybe the democrat wins California, New York, Texas by slim margins and loses 40 or 41 states by a larger margin, meaning they lose the popular vote and pretty significantly. All of the sudden, the republicans will be interested in amending or doing away with the electoral college system.

    If there was no electoral college, you would see republican candidates campaign in New York and California. You would see democratic candidates campaign in Utah, and Alabama. Even if they lose those states by a 2-1 margin, every vote they pick up counts just the same as every other vote.
    Wishful thinking KJ. Governor Whitmer has shown Michigan liberals that they have no rights under democrat leadership. Do you really think that is going to pick up votes for dems? Guess again. With their turning the shutdown from "flatten the curve" into "until we find a cure" keeping workers under house arrest and away from their jobs way longer than expected and their weak response to left wing subversives burning down cities during the pandemic, Dems are commiting political suicide all across this country. It will show in the election this November.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #4385
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Without the electoral college New York and California would elect all the national leaders. When you see national polls that say Biden 46% Trump 42%, take Cali and NY out of that equation and Trump leads.
    No president can win with just two states electorally so that's just not true.

    However if it was true that the population of NY and Cali could outvote the other 48 states then it probably means they should get to decide the next election. Your argument would be if the mass of the population is all congregated in two states that's less valid than if a minority of people are spread out.

    Which makes no sense to me
    New York and California are not like most states. They have an over-abundence of liberals. It's way lopsided. Hillary easily won the popular vote in 2016 because of surplus liberal votes out of New York and California. With no electoral college it would have been this super majority of liberal votes in both states that made the difference.
    That is absolutely correct!

    But they are Americans!

    I get it. You are conservative and see how NY and Cali make winning difficult but that's the way it is. It's like playing a basketball game and finding out the other team has guys over seven feet tall. Can you insist they don't play so you have a better chance at winning?

    But wait a minute. I'm pretty certain it's been this way since the sixties if I am not mistaken.

    1960 - Democrat
    1964 - Democrat
    1968 - Republican
    1972- Republican
    1976 - Democrat
    1980 - Republican
    1984 - Republican
    1988 - Republican
    1992 - Democrat
    1996 - Democrat
    2000 - Republican
    2004 - Republican
    2008 - Democrat
    2012 - Democrat
    2016 - Republican

    WTF? Even with NY and Cali liberal majority Republican's have won more elections than Democrats (and that's with owning Watergate for Christ's sake)

    Now as to the upcoming election. Who knows where we are in just four months. Anything can happen. But you seem pretty confident people are going to be voting for Trump.

    The state of the Union (just facts)

    100,000 dead from new disease (with unproven treatments touted [Bleach under the skin anyone])

    40 million asking for unemployment

    Race riots and looting ACROSS THE NATION!

    Forget Democrat or Republican. I don't see any president surviving those numbers

    Was Trump responsible for this Derek Chauvin/George Foster catalyst? No, aside from some systemic baiting over the years he didn't have anything to do with the incident

    But what happens when the lead car in the Indy 500 with a huge lead has a tire blow and does a triple somersault crash before the finish line? Wasn't his fault but he doesn't win the race either.

    Trump has four months to pull out a miracle. Personally I want to get back to work. I want a treatment that makes Covid-19 go away. And I want it now.

    If that does happen Trump will tout how he found the treatment for America. He will own it regardless of if he did anything but hey he gets to own the problems, he can own the success. Getting America back to work MAGA if you will is more important than who is in office to me.

    But right now after four years every Republican should be chanting KAGA (Keep America Great Again). You guys haven't succeeded in making it yet???? Come on!

  6. #4386
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post

    The guy had lunch with Wizard of Nothing but can't remember much of it.
    He can't hold his chicken nuggets.
    He wants the constitution to be thrown out or rewritten.
    etc etc etc
    Mainly, I don't like the Electoral College system, even though there's a very outside chance that my party will benefit from it one day. I've really warmed up to The Constitution, as late, because I hypothesized a country where it was actually followed and it's a pretty good one.

    Unlike present party and other assorted trolls here, I don't remember much about it because I tend not to pay attention or have any concern about matters that have nothing to do with me.
    Without the electoral college New York and California would elect all the national leaders. When you see national polls that say Biden 46% Trump 42%, take Cali and NY out of that equation and Trump leads.
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Right now, about .5% of the population elects the president. In 2016, it was basically 4 states, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida. Trump happened to win them all narrowly. In 2020, it looks like it will be Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida again, with Arizona and North Carolina joining. Michigan seems to fairly solidly heading back blue. So we may have 5 states this election that decide. And really it is 1 or 2 swing counties in each of these swings states that really decide, so it is even a smaller number of people that really elect the president. And because of that 40-45 states don't see either candidate from either party. All the campaigning is done in those 4-5 swing states. So in a sense the rest of us, our vote doesn't matter. Only a handful of voters in a few key states do.

    Right now the republicans and republican supporters want no part of fixing the electoral college problem. But Texas is on the verge of turning blue. Probably not this election, but clearly demographics are changing and in the next election or two it will be blue. So just imagine, in 2024, or 2028, a democrat running for president wins California, New York, Texas, and maybe a swing state of Florida. All they need is another 4 or 5 states and they are over 270. And maybe the democrat wins California, New York, Texas by slim margins and loses 40 or 41 states by a larger margin, meaning they lose the popular vote and pretty significantly. All of the sudden, the republicans will be interested in amending or doing away with the electoral college system.

    If there was no electoral college, you would see republican candidates campaign in New York and California. You would see democratic candidates campaign in Utah, and Alabama. Even if they lose those states by a 2-1 margin, every vote they pick up counts just the same as every other vote.
    My counter-argument essentially mirrors KewlJ's. The main thing that people say is that the EC is necessary, because otherwise, you would essentially have a few states pick the winner. As KewlJ has succinctly pointed out, a few states already do pick the winner.

    Furthermore, the Electoral College results in tons of votes essentially being nullified by way of its very existence. For example, we don't really know how many Republicans in California fail to show up to the polls because they basically consider the POTUS vote a lost cause. We don't know how many Democrats in Montana simply do not turn out to vote on the basis of it not making a difference.

    In other words, we don't even know what the true popular vote would be.

    I can say that you wouldn't have a few major cities deciding; they would just be contributing. For instance, on a popular vote basis, if you took HRC's votes from Texas away, now she loses the popular vote.

    For that reason, I would argue, in terms of having one's voice heard, straight popular vote would be an improvement. You would have to campaign and have operations everywhere (both/all parties) because you would need every vote that you could possibly get. There would be outreach to Alaska Democrats and Hawaii Republicans.

    However, it seems that some states are going to circumvent the EC system if enough of them get on board, by agreeing to be bound to the popular vote. It also seems like they can do this because the Constitution lacks provisions for the exact mechanism by which states control their popular votes.

    But, my biggest problem with the EC is Faithless Electors. Some states throw them out, but not all of them. Ron Paul, Faith Spotted Eagle, John Kasich, Bernie Sanders and three (!?) votes for Colin fucking Powell! Who the hell is Faith Spotted Eagle representative of in this, 'Representative Democracy?' She received ZERO popular votes; she literally represents nobody.

    I also think that the Internet and other mechanisms of mass communication have rendered the argument that rural areas would be underrepresented slightly less valid than it once was, so I do admit that the EC, at one time, had a very important purpose. It was a little different when a town hall to a rural area would have required a three-day trip, by horse.

    FUN FACT: At one time, national support for going to a straight popular vote was once nearly 70%, and that was with equal agreement of both parties.

  7. #4387
    I think Darkoz' point kind of hurts the EC-no case a little bit because there hasn't been a first-term Republican President to win the popular vote since 1988. Although, it's hard to say what might have happened in 2000 had there been a point in turning out in all of the states.

  8. #4388
    Alan should take that $500 and vulture machines. Guaranteed to hit $400,000 but it'll take a while.

  9. #4389
    As has been said many times before a democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. As has been pointed out countless times we are not a democracy. We are a republic. The electoral college came into existence to protect the slight minority from the tyranny of the slight majority.

    BTW, darkoz, I'm not a republican. I'm not even a right winger. I'm a middle of the road independent. But democrats are so far to the left these days that moderates like myself appear to be ultra far righties to them. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils this election cycle.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  10. #4390
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post

    No president can win with just two states electorally so that's just not true.

    However if it was true that the population of NY and Cali could outvote the other 48 states then it probably means they should get to decide the next election. Your argument would be if the mass of the population is all congregated in two states that's less valid than if a minority of people are spread out.

    Which makes no sense to me
    New York and California are not like most states. They have an over-abundence of liberals. It's way lopsided. Hillary easily won the popular vote in 2016 because of surplus liberal votes out of New York and California. With no electoral college it would have been this super majority of liberal votes in both states that made the difference.
    That is absolutely correct!

    But they are Americans!

    I get it. You are conservative and see how NY and Cali make winning difficult but that's the way it is. It's like playing a basketball game and finding out the other team has guys over seven feet tall. Can you insist they don't play so you have a better chance at winning?

    But wait a minute. I'm pretty certain it's been this way since the sixties if I am not mistaken.

    1960 - Democrat
    1964 - Democrat
    1968 - Republican
    1972- Republican
    1976 - Democrat
    1980 - Republican
    1984 - Republican
    1988 - Republican
    1992 - Democrat
    1996 - Democrat
    2000 - Republican
    2004 - Republican
    2008 - Democrat
    2012 - Democrat
    2016 - Republican

    WTF? Even with NY and Cali liberal majority Republican's have won more elections than Democrats (and that's with owning Watergate for Christ's sake)

    Now as to the upcoming election. Who knows where we are in just four months. Anything can happen. But you seem pretty confident people are going to be voting for Trump.

    The state of the Union (just facts)

    100,000 dead from new disease (with unproven treatments touted [Bleach under the skin anyone])

    40 million asking for unemployment

    Race riots and looting ACROSS THE NATION!

    Forget Democrat or Republican. I don't see any president surviving those numbers

    Was Trump responsible for this Derek Chauvin/George Foster catalyst? No, aside from some systemic baiting over the years he didn't have anything to do with the incident

    But what happens when the lead car in the Indy 500 with a huge lead has a tire blow and does a triple somersault crash before the finish line? Wasn't his fault but he doesn't win the race either.

    Trump has four months to pull out a miracle. Personally I want to get back to work. I want a treatment that makes Covid-19 go away. And I want it now.

    If that does happen Trump will tout how he found the treatment for America. He will own it regardless of if he did anything but hey he gets to own the problems, he can own the success. Getting America back to work MAGA if you will is more important than who is in office to me.

    But right now after four years every Republican should be chanting KAGA (Keep America Great Again). You guys haven't succeeded in making it yet???? Come on!
    I lived in California in the sixties. The state was not far left in those days. Reagan won the governors race in 66 and 70. He couldn't get elected dog catcher there today.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #4391
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post

    Mainly, I don't like the Electoral College system, even though there's a very outside chance that my party will benefit from it one day.

    straight popular vote would be an improvement.

    FUN FACT: At one time, national support for going to a straight popular vote was once nearly 70%, and that was with equal agreement of both parties.
    We have an electoral college because our Founding Fathers thought that the American people were too stupid to elect their own President. That is the reason - no other, and not to protect minority rights either. I have read some revisionist theories as to why else we have an electoral college, but I don't really buy them.

    The electors do not have to vote with the popular vote of even their own state, and sometimes do not, they are merely elected to vote - for us.

    Back then, among a nation of illiterates and farmers this rationale of an ignorant populace might have been true, but no longer applies sufficiently to justify the Republic's Electoral College system.
    Last edited by MDawg; 06-01-2020 at 11:20 AM.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  12. #4392
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Originally Posted by Mission146 View Post

    Mainly, I don't like the Electoral College system, even though there's a very outside chance that my party will benefit from it one day.

    straight popular vote would be an improvement.

    FUN FACT: At one time, national support for going to a straight popular vote was once nearly 70%, and that was with equal agreement of both parties.
    We have an electoral college because our Founding Fathers thought that the American people were too stupid to elect their own President. That is the reason - no other, and not to protect minority rights either. I have read some revisionist theories as to why else we have an electoral college, but I don't really buy them.

    The electors do not have to vote with the popular vote of even their own state, and sometimes do not, they are merely elected to vote - for us.

    Back then, among a nation of illiterates and farmers this rationale of an ignorant populace might have been true, but no longer applies sufficiently to justify the Republic's Electoral College system.
    Really MDawg?

    You forcing me to agree with you on something

    Damn, what's gonna happen to our feud now?

  13. #4393
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    As has been said many times before a democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. As has been pointed out countless times we are not a democracy. We are a republic. The electoral college came into existence to protect the slight minority from the tyranny of the slight majority.

    BTW, darkoz, I'm not a republican. I'm not even a right winger. I'm a middle of the road independent. But democrats are so far to the left these days that moderates like myself appear to be ultra far righties to them. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils this election cycle.
    I'm moderate left although I will dig in my heels if I have to.

    As for choices, definitely two evils. I'm not confident in Biden. But I know how bad (evil) Trump is now that we got to experience him for four years. That is the only real reason for Biden. Maybe he will turn out worse, maybe better.

    Dems definitely needed a stronger candidate and one did not come along.

  14. #4394
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Really MDawg?

    You forcing me to agree with you on something

    Damn, what's gonna happen to our feud now?
    You and I saw eye to eye on a lot of things in the beginning. I remember actually defending you against the mob. At some point we started feuding. I can't recall exactly why or what started it.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  15. #4395
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Really MDawg?

    You forcing me to agree with you on something

    Damn, what's gonna happen to our feud now?
    You and I saw eye to eye on a lot of things in the beginning. I remember actually defending you against the mob. At some point we started feuding. I can't recall exactly why or what started it.
    Uh, yeah I think it was when you kept insisting on spelling my name as a Russian operative. You kept calling me Darkov. Even after being corrected a fee times.

    But if you want to, I'm fine with bygones. I didn't come here to fight. In fact I came here to clear accusations that I had followed you just to fight under Baccmaster which wasn't true (BTW, I noticed once I proved who I was he disappeared. I think he was enjoying letting people believe he was Darkoz)

  16. #4396
    Fair enough - bygones.

    Yes it did seem at first that you were BaccM but we now know who he is, but he disappeared from this forum anyway, so not much point in unearthing him here unless he should rear again and remain bothersome. He pretty much had a one track mind anyway. I think I responded to just one post of his, so he felt compelled to repeat himself over and over hoping I would reply. But if he'd appeared much longer might've sent Alice Cooper over to his house back east to string up his puppies. Or you could've hit him up yourself on your way into Atlantic City.
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.

    MDawg Adventures carry on at: https://www.truepassage.com/forums/f.../46-IPlayVegas

  17. #4397
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Fair enough - bygones.

    Yes it did seem at first that you were BaccM but we now know who he is, but he disappeared from this forum anyway, so not much point in unearthing him here unless he should rear again and remain bothersome. He pretty much had a one track mind anyway. I think I responded to just one post of his, so he felt compelled to repeat himself over and over hoping I would reply. But if he'd appeared much longer might've sent Alice Cooper over to his house back east to string up his puppies. Or you could've hit him up yourself on your way into Atlantic City.
    Okay well fair warning on the bygones.

    I posted some retort to you on a different thread PRIOR to our bygones. Monet already quoted it so pointless to change it now but don't think I'm violating the truce.

  18. #4398
    Originally Posted by Darkoz View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    As has been said many times before a democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. As has been pointed out countless times we are not a democracy. We are a republic. The electoral college came into existence to protect the slight minority from the tyranny of the slight majority.

    BTW, darkoz, I'm not a republican. I'm not even a right winger. I'm a middle of the road independent. But democrats are so far to the left these days that moderates like myself appear to be ultra far righties to them. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils this election cycle.
    I'm moderate left although I will dig in my heels if I have to.

    As for choices, definitely two evils. I'm not confident in Biden. But I know how bad (evil) Trump is now that we got to experience him for four years. That is the only real reason for Biden. Maybe he will turn out worse, maybe better.

    Dems definitely needed a stronger candidate and one did not come along.
    Trump is obvious choice to rebuild the economy.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  19. #4399
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Fair enough - bygones.

    Yes it did seem at first that you were BaccM but we now know who he is, but he disappeared from this forum anyway, so not much point in unearthing him here unless he should rear again and remain bothersome. He pretty much had a one track mind anyway. I think I responded to just one post of his, so he felt compelled to repeat himself over and over hoping I would reply. But if he'd appeared much longer might've sent Alice Cooper over to his house back east to string up his puppies. Or you could've hit him up yourself on your way into Atlantic City.
    Don't let yourself CUCK out. Your initial instincts are not betraying you. This was solid GOLD.

    "It would be okay, and few would challenge you if you weren't so sensitive about your past failures that you felt the need to boast about having a few benjies in your pocket and that you could afford to pay for many spring fling dinners. All that makes you sound ridiculous and opens you up to contumely. You bring it on yourself!

    We didn't resign ourselves to sleeping on the streets for years, and that you'd show to a social WOV event with a mask on (in pre-coronavirus times) proves that you fall into the mentally ill camp of the homeless population.

    Still, stick to what you know. Whatever that might be, writing is well beyond your ken."

  20. #4400
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
    Fair enough - bygones.

    Yes it did seem at first that you were BaccM but we now know who he is, but he disappeared from this forum anyway, so not much point in unearthing him here unless he should rear again and remain bothersome. He pretty much had a one track mind anyway. I think I responded to just one post of his, so he felt compelled to repeat himself over and over hoping I would reply. But if he'd appeared much longer might've sent Alice Cooper over to his house back east to string up his puppies. Or you could've hit him up yourself on your way into Atlantic City.
    Don't let yourself CUCK out. Your initial instincts are not betraying you. This was solid GOLD.

    "It would be okay, and few would challenge you if you weren't so sensitive about your past failures that you felt the need to boast about having a few benjies in your pocket and that you could afford to pay for many spring fling dinners. All that makes you sound ridiculous and opens you up to contumely. You bring it on yourself!

    We didn't resign ourselves to sleeping on the streets for years, and that you'd show to a social WOV event with a mask on (in pre-coronavirus times) proves that you fall into the mentally ill camp of the homeless population.

    Still, stick to what you know. Whatever that might be, writing is well beyond your ken."
    You are itching for the battle obviously

    Point of a truce is let previous shots be brushed off.

    This ain't Game of Thrones AP style.

    At least I won't be the one to break the peace (wasn't that a quote from the Godfather)

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