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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #3721
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Just had an interesting exchange at WoV with someone named TDTony. He impugned my veracity. I offered to lay 5K against his 50 bucks and an apology. He backed down.

    I tried to remember mickey's hummingbird mouth or ass quote, but couldn't come up with it.

    I get the feeling most of the WoV membership thinks fifty bucks is betting real money. Cheap motherfuckers over there.

    Note: Just saw "Dolemite is My Name." Need to start using mf word more.
    You have no veracity and you posted this nonsense because even those at WoV are calling you out and labeling you for what you really are. All you do is constantly give weakass excuses for being too afraid to post any of your "locks and profitable plays" prior to the games being played. You demand a stellar rep, yet you expect everyone to take your word for it when it's the easiest of the casino games to just simply prove oneself at publicly. I suspect you're still trying to reel in unsuspecting people that keep the cash flowing.

    Instead of more monotonous BS about all the "university professors" "scientists" & and weirdo "academics" you claim to rub elbows with, and the histrionics about "I only post the truth on forums and everyone HAS GOTS to believe me"....just post some winning picks BEFORE the games are played for once in your life instead of the usual bevy of excuses.

  2. #3722
    I want to mention what I said over on WoV, throw a historical angle on it, then circle around to what blackhole just said.

    I listed reasons, that after 40 years in the business I consider solid, proven reasons, why no winning handicapper should publicly post plays on a site like this or WoV as a way of proving anything. If you're a novice, fine. If you do not know if you can win, fine. But if you do win, bad idea. I'll get to those reasons in a minute.

    Back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, there were entities called consensus services. Basically what they did was they paid seasonal fees to maybe 30 different high-profile name handicappers, maybe 1K each. They collected the plays each week and resold them to the public for, say, $400 for everybody's plays. Nothing illegal about it, but it basically killed the real handicappers, who were charging more for just their own plays. The consensus services didn't have to worry about downturns or losing seasons from individual handicappers. They were selling an array in bulk. And they didn't have to do much advertising. Any advertising the individual handicappers did was in some way also helping the consensus services. Not surprisingly, this made it almost impossible for actual handicappers to survive as individuals.

    Fast forward to Billy Walters' heyday. Mr. Walters began collecting roundtables of wunderkinds and having them design power ratings and compete against each other, while not paying them terribly well. Now I have all the respect in the world for Mr. Walters, but this was him using his reputation as leverage for exploitation. The young handicappers had their styles and emphases profiled by converting them to power ratings. Basically, some handicappers had their angles and expertise hijacked. After the power ratings were formalized, some of these handicappers' systems could be used without the handicappers.

    And now we circle into today. Winning handicappers should never post their plays publicly for the following reasons:

    1) Whether they know it or not (most do), their plays will have priorities and emphases, some kind of situational angles and such. If you have a large enough sample of their plays, these plays can be quantified, analyzed, and data-mined. The handicappers who win are cutting their own throats by public posting. Other people are going to be able to quantify why and how they win. It's almost a horse racing situation without the obvious pari-mutuel effect. It's a subtle pari-mutuel effect.
    2) If the handicappers are winning prior to the public posting, they have clients. Those clients pay money for the plays. Offering those plays for free does not make for happy clients.
    3) No matter how well one does, your record on a public forum is not going to garner enough clients to offset the fact that you exposed your plays and possibly ticked off current paying customers.
    4) In addition, if you bet futures, once you announce those plays, you have cut your own throat in terms of adding more money to them down the road, because you will have made the plays public and possibly cut the odds for yourself.

    Now I listed these reasons on WoV, but nobody seems to get off the treadmill that "of course people should post their plays." So this gets to what blackhole was saying. WoV would be a terrible site on which to post plays precisely because Shackleford is capable of data mining the plays as well as anyone. He is capable of figuring out and hijacking, a la Billy Walters, how people win. So of course WoV is going to argue that plays should be posted by as many people as possible.

    (A) It drives traffic. It's free posts and folks there have admitted it's a major attraction of the site. Posting goes up during football.
    (B) People can try to data-mine the handicappers.

    So posting not only exposes plays. It adds to WoV's bottom line by driving traffic. If you win, it's a really bad idea.

    My saying these things seems to not be terribly appreciated. The response seems to be, "but of course people should post their plays." Well, if you want to contribute to WoV's bottom line or have your plays hijacked, then yeah, great idea.
    Last edited by redietz; 01-20-2020 at 10:28 AM.

  3. #3723
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Just had an interesting exchange at WoV with someone named TDTony. He impugned my veracity. I offered to lay 5K against his 50 bucks and an apology. He backed down.

    I tried to remember mickey's hummingbird mouth or ass quote, but couldn't come up with it.

    I get the feeling most of the WoV membership thinks fifty bucks is betting real money. Cheap motherfuckers over there.

    Note: Just saw "Dolemite is My Name." Need to start using mf word more.
    You have no veracity and you posted this nonsense because even those at WoV are calling you out and labeling you for what you really are. All you do is constantly give weakass excuses for being too afraid to post any of your "locks and profitable plays" prior to the games being played. You demand a stellar rep, yet you expect everyone to take your word for it when it's the easiest of the casino games to just simply prove oneself at publicly. I suspect you're still trying to reel in unsuspecting people that keep the cash flowing.

    Instead of more monotonous BS about all the "university professors" "scientists" & and weirdo "academics" you claim to rub elbows with, and the histrionics about "I only post the truth on forums and everyone HAS GOTS to believe me"....just post some winning picks BEFORE the games are played for once in your life instead of the usual bevy of excuses.
    Rob, honestly, you don't know much of anything about gambling in general. I mean, really, you have no expertise whatsoever. If you find some sports gambling related claim here that I've made that you can debunk, I'll bet you my ring finger against yours that you cannot. Yakuza style.

    Now, for example, Rob isn't going to challenge whether I had SF at 20-1 and 40-1 to win the NFC, even if I make the same offer I did at WoV. I'll lay 5K against fifty bucks and an apology and a coffee. Rob's response will be crickets.

    He really should occasionally try to learn something from somebody.
    Last edited by redietz; 01-20-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  4. #3724
    I'll do the same thing as the folks over at WoV are driving you up a wall with: tell you you're full of it unless and until you prove you're what you claim to be by posting your picks and pictures of tickets BEFORE any games are played...and they win. Absent that, and you're nothing more than just another self-annointed phony sportsbetting handicapper who occasionally tries to get people like me to give you money for your "sure things". Which, of course, you'll again deny. But I have a sneaking suspicion people are believing me more than you given your constant weak excuses for refusing to prove what you brag about yourself.

  5. #3725
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Why would I time a trip for somebody else's schedule to make $50?
    You gave the impression that it wasn't so much about the money, more about the opportunity to prove yourself truthful to someone who called you a liar.

    $50 is a pretty nominal bet, the credibility and apology you seek are things that money can't buy.

  6. #3726
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Why would I time a trip for somebody else's schedule to make $50?
    You gave the impression that it wasn't so much about the money, more about the opportunity to prove yourself truthful to someone who called you a liar.

    $50 is a pretty nominal bet, the credibility and apology you seek are things that money can't buy.
    He talks a big game coach....on the internet. Rumor is he claims Five Dimes Tony ain't got nothin' on him.

    Ever wonder why he "stands by" the concocted claims of kew and vice-versa? Ask him when he meets up with you

  7. #3727
    [QUOTE=Rob.Singer;96316]
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Why would I time a trip for somebody else's schedule to make $50?
    You gave the impression that it wasn't so much about the money, more about the opportunity to prove yourself truthful to someone who called you a liar.

    $50 is a pretty nominal bet, the credibility and apology you seek are things that money can't buy.
    He talks a big game coach....on the internet. Rumor is he claims Five Dimes Tony ain't got nothin' on him.

    Ever wonder why he "stands by" the concocted claims of kew and vice-versa? Ask him when he meets up with you [/QUOTE



    What you didn't read here was "Singer" taking the 5k versus $50 wager. LOL. I've got that phrase now...alligator mouth/hummingbird ass. Or was it balls? Hummingbird balls?

  8. #3728
    The wager was already accepted by coach, where we've been treated to another one of your cowardly excuses. What I'm interested in is you finally posting plays and tickets BEFORE the games are played. And they're doing a fine job humiliating you on WoV for deflecting there also.

  9. #3729
    I think 10 years in "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and 30 years in the invitation-only Wise Guys Contest (www.playbook.com//Vegas-Wise-Guys/) and a dozen years or so in the nationally-distributed Playbook newsletter would translate into plays being publicly monitored.

    So for 30 years, my top two plays each week have been available to the public via the Wise Guys Contest.

    Of course, this gets old. Mickey helped me post some "Tipsters or Gypsters?" pages in the Retro Road Trip thread. If you'll notice, I was the top college football profit guy three times, the only person in the history of the publication to do that.

    I'm having a tough time figuring out why Rob won't risk 50 bucks for a chance at 5K. I'm sure he has a fine explanation. By the way, Rob, everything good with the family? How's Numbers 14:18 treating you?
    Last edited by redietz; 01-22-2020 at 04:33 PM.

  10. #3730
    Happy to see kind words for GBC as being so knowledgeable and trustworthy. They're my book publisher!

    And enough with your tournaments up to decades ago. Those are meaningless. Post some picks BEFORE THE GAMES ARE PLAYED. And stop deflecting.

  11. #3731
    I'm sure everyone here knows the classic sports con. You have two lists of customers, list A and list B. In the first week you send each list the winner of a game -- half getting one team, half getting the other. In the second week the winning list is divided in half. In the third week the winners are divided again. By the end of the season the customers with all the winners think you're a genius and they easily fork over the big bucks for your final pick.

    The point, of course, is that anyone can produce a winning ticket. But what losers were there?

    Apparently the Wizard of Vegas folks know that anyone can produce a winning ticket... and can trash the losing tickets.

    Another point. My local casino just had an NFL pick contest for the regular season. I know the winner. He had about ten different entries... not just one... with different combinations of winners.

  12. #3732
    Alan, fifth graders know about the old cons. That stuff is dated beyond belief.

    You're correct. Anyone can produce a winning ticket. And in fact some of the big bettors who dented the national media the last few years with high-profile longshot tickets did just that. They fired an array of longshots, hit one, then leveraged that into some half-page articles in USA Today.

    I don't do that. I'm Joe Friday. I report the facts. Reality. It's possible I bet a gazillion longshots all over LV, then hit one, then offered 5K versus 50 bucks that I won it. That would be a real AP play, eh? Invest a fortune, lose a bundle overall, but win one and get 50 bucks from Rob Singer. Brilliant plan. One for the ages. Blow thousands to make Rob Singer look bad on a forum nobody reads.

    I have partners. They have the same plays I do. If you're into investigative reporting, I'm sure some of them would be open to being interviewed. I think all of my current people have been onboard for at least a decade or have known me for 30 years plus. But you won't do that. You have an agenda.

  13. #3733
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Happy to see kind words for GBC as being so knowledgeable and trustworthy. They're my book publisher!

    And enough with your tournaments up to decades ago. Those are meaningless. Post some picks BEFORE THE GAMES ARE PLAYED. And stop deflecting.
    Rob, you keep mentioning this. I have been kind all of these years and never said one negative thing about your books. I have, however, discussed your "book contract" with some folks. So why don't you share the details of that contract? I'm sure the forum would love to hear about it.

  14. #3734
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Anyone can produce a winning ticket.
    Anyone but you.

  15. #3735
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Anyone can produce a winning ticket.
    Anyone but you.
    Ahh, but coach, did you check the Retro Road Trip thread? Lots of winning tickets there. Of course, that was my cousin, E.R.Dietz.

    Turns out, I did PM somebody on this forum the futures on September 3rd. Now I'm not going to expose a private message in a forum post, unless I get permission or Rob bets me a lot more than 50 dollars. And obviously, I PM'ed just one set of futures to one person, so it's not like I played dartboard array.

    And coach, don't worry. I postponed my trip next week due to concerns about the coronavirus and it being Chinese New Year. Las Vegas is the top international destination for Chinese during New Year. Now coach, would somebody like, (cough) "AndrewG" verifying the ticket work for you? How about blackhole? He seems like an honest sort. Or Shackleford? You could ring up Shackleford. I'm trying to squeeze in a trip before the conference hoops tournaments.

  16. #3736
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Now coach, would somebody like, (cough) "AndrewG" verifying the ticket work for you?
    Not necessary, just post screenshots of the tickets, and then please hurry up and get permission to post the PM that you sent to "somebody".

    If you don't get permission to share that info, then redact the addressee.

    But unless you can get them to confirm your message then it's still suspect.

    I can't imagine why any member here would deny you permission...can you explain why?

  17. #3737
    More of redietz' diverting accountability for his claims. It's always "blasts from the past", never posting game picks prior to the games being played.

    Now he mentions "partners". Name them, and their contact information.

    Any doubt why there's a question of whether his supposed wife committed suicide or not in an effort to get away from him? The only person we've seen divert, deny, deflect, and lie more is Adam Schiff.

  18. #3738
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Now coach, would somebody like, (cough) "AndrewG" verifying the ticket work for you?
    Not necessary, just post screenshots of the tickets, and then please hurry up and get permission to post the PM that you sent to "somebody".

    If you don't get permission to share that info, then redact the addressee.

    But unless you can get them to confirm your message then it's still suspect.

    I can't imagine why any member here would deny you permission...can you explain why?

    Well, coach, let's discuss this. Maybe they don't want to bother getting in the way of someone like you or "Singer." What's in it for them? Or maybe they haven't been posting in a long time. Or maybe I want to wait until you embarrass yourself further. The only people it's suspect with are you and Robbie Singer. The dynamic duo.

    Let's get "AndrewG" to verify the ticket. Nothing like Alan in person watching a ticket getting cashed. I'll video it if he won't.

  19. #3739
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The only people it's suspect with are you and Robbie Singer.
    Me, Singer, and everybody else here...and everybody on WOV...except for you.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    What's in it for them?
    There's nothing in it for anybody but you, as far as I can tell...so redact the addressee, that would take care of any conflict that your imaginary friend could have.

    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Let's get "AndrewG" to verify the ticket. Nothing like Alan in person watching a ticket getting cashed. I'll video it if he won't.
    You are implying that AndrewG is Alan M.

    I don't know that he is, do you know that he is?

    I would think that Druff could clear that up.

    If it's established that Andrew is Alan, then yes let's get him to watch you cash the ticket(s).

    I'll video it, you'll just have to wait until April for that.

    From what you wrote above, it seems that April is still a possibility.

    In the meantime, post a screenshot of the ticket(s).

  20. #3740
    It's pretty easy to understand why someone that makes money from others on his sportspicks would not put up pre-game picks to others for free. You're charging a select group but giving the picks away for free to others? That's as stupid as it gets. What happens when that select group finds out about it? Talk about shitting in your own nest.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

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