The WoV Thread

[Darkoz]

I made this above post earlier and was hoping Kewlj would respond to it. I'm re-posting it in case he missed it getting tied up in Darkey's bullshit.

I saw it blackhole. Had plans this morning....forgive me for not immediately jumping to your needs.

Look, you guys are unbelievable. You troll and attack and say all kind of very untruthful things, some that you know are lies, other that you maybe just don't have a clue about...all in an attempt to discredit me. So really, why should I even bother to treat you like a reasonable mature person and have a reasonable discussion? Answer me that?

Look, most of these things have been discussed, here and elsewhere. There is nobody that has shared more of what I do and how I do it and am bale to do things, that I have. Problem is that people like you and Singer, anti-AP, hear things, you don't want to hear and say things like "oh that can't be done", when the simple fact is you have no idea. It is an area you just don't know about.

But I will be nice, and in the Christmas spirit, answer your questions, although I have no doubt you will just shit on me again.

If you post any evidence they will just say it's faked so what's the point

[kewlJ]

I can't and won't talk about everything I do, but basically two simple things. Betting limits and short sessions. If you saw the documentary "inside the edge" that has been talked about a lot lately, you see what happens when a player is playing limits that are outside the casinos comfort limits. KC was a high limit player and he drew immediate heat, backoffs, barring. That is exactly why I play moderate limits that are better tolerated, more within the casinos comfort levels. Once you identify what those better tolerated levels are, and you keep your sessions short, you can play unmolested, because you aren't creating a situation that anyone has to answer for. THAT is the reason backoffs, barrings occur, because the player has created a situation that the pit is going to have to answer for.

I have friends that work in the pit at two different casinos here in Vegas, one a local casino, one a strip casino. So I am going to tell you how backoffs, barings work at most Vegas casinos. Pit person notices a spread that like I said is outside the comfort or tolerance level. He calls upstairs for surveillance to do an evaluation. Once surveillance confirms the player moving money with the count, the pit backs off or bars the player. Now here is the thing many people don't know. There is paperwork that goes along with that. The pit people have to document everything that happened, interaction with surveillance, the interaction with player during the backoff/baring.

Translation = Extra work for the pit person. So really they don't want to take this action unless they have to. Once you understand that, it is easy. You don't put them in that position. Betting limits that are better tolerated (within comfort level) and short sessions is going to take care of most of these problems. Short session means smaller wins. No, or few large 5 figure sessions that they have to answer for. And that pit person noticing the spread that starts the whole process, that occurs when a player drops back to the small wager at the shuffle after betting bigger before the shuffle. THAT is the big tell, not raising bets, but dropping back at the shuffle. I avoid that big tell by exiting after showing my spread, rather than drop back. It is one of my exit triggers as part of my short session strategy.

I have said this before, I am not tricking anyone (pit critters). I am not trying to trick anyone. I see the look of recognition on their face. And I suspect most know exactly what I am doing. But they also know I won't be there long and wont create a situation that they have to answer for. Won't create a situation that means extra work and paperwork for them. THAT is the key to longevity. I have been doing it for just about a decade in Vegas. There are players that have been doing it for 40, 50, 60 years. That is what card counting is. It isn't about the actually counting of cards, and betting more at certain times. A monkey could be taught that. The real skill is learning how and what is tolerated.

But go ahead, tell me "oh nobody can do that", because it is something you have no clue about.

[blackhole]

As for Blackhole, I suggest he go over to read my posts at WOV where I have discussed plays and posted evidence before he opens his black hole again

Please link me to evidence.

[blackhole]

If you post any evidence they will just say it's faked so what's the point

Finally the long awaited expected response finally showed up. Are all you bullshit artists sharing the same anonymous play book?

[MisterV]

KJ, I am not a blackjack player but I know that it takes awhile to track the cards to verify what the count is, correct?

Given that, how short are the short sessions you play, and if they're short how can you accurately determine the count quickly?

Do you bet minimum til the count is right, then bet more, win, and immediately close out and leave?

[Rob.Singer]

I can't and won't talk about everything I do, but basically two simple things. Betting limits and short sessions. If you saw the documentary "inside the edge" that has been talked about a lot lately, you see what happens when a player is playing limits that are outside the casinos comfort limits. KC was a high limit player and he drew immediate heat, backoffs, barring. That is exactly why I play moderate limits that are better tolerated, more within the casinos comfort levels. Once you identify what those better tolerated levels are, and you keep your sessions short, you can play unmolested, because you aren't creating a situation that anyone has to answer for. THAT is the reason backoffs, barrings occur, because the player has created a situation that the pit is going to have to answer for.

I have friends that work in the pit at two different casinos here in Vegas, one a local casino, one a strip casino. So I am going to tell you how backoffs, barings work at most Vegas casinos. Pit person notices a spread that like I said is outside the comfort or tolerance level. He calls upstairs for surveillance to do an evaluation. Once surveillance confirms the player moving money with the count, the pit backs off or bars the player. Now here is the thing many people don't know. There is paperwork that goes along with that. The pit people have to document everything that happened, interaction with surveillance, the interaction with player during the backoff/baring.

Translation = Extra work for the pit person. So really they don't want to take this action unless they have to. Once you understand that, it is easy. You don't put them in that position. Betting limits that are better tolerated (within comfort level) and short sessions is going to take care of most of these problems. Short session means smaller wins. No, or few large 5 figure sessions that they have to answer for. And that pit person noticing the spread that starts the whole process, that occurs when a player drops back to the small wager at the shuffle after betting bigger before the shuffle. THAT is the big tell, not raising bets, but dropping back at the shuffle. I avoid that big tell by exiting after showing my spread, rather than drop back. It is one of my exit triggers as part of my short session strategy.

I have said this before, I am not tricking anyone (pit critters). I am not trying to trick anyone. I see the look of recognition on their face. And I suspect most know exactly what I am doing. But they also know I won't be there long and wont create a situation that they have to answer for. Won't create a situation that means extra work and paperwork for them. THAT is the key to longevity. I have been doing it for just about a decade in Vegas. There are players that have been doing it for 40, 50, 60 years. That is what card counting is. It isn't about the actually counting of cards, and betting more at certain times. A monkey could be taught that. The real skill is learning how and what is tolerated.

But go ahead, tell me "oh nobody can do that", because it is something you have no clue about.

Let me get this straight: In response to blackhole's not buying your bj bs, YOU say you outwit the game (as well as the pitbosses everywhere) by playing SHORT TERM SESSIONS, which as a math genius such as yourself should know (I say "such as yourself" because you always purport yourself as doing nothing but what the math demands of "winning" players) it's results cannot and should not ever be used as a barometer or indicator of "long term" actuality.

However....in true Liberal hypocrite form--where "what applies to me does not apply to you"--my particular play strategy that has an 85% possibility of being successful in every short term session (can your bj sessions even come close to that?) is totally incapable of winning over the long term as it has for the 4 years I played it.

This is only but one of the reasons why what you keep so desperately trying to push down the throats of everybody about yourself, is not to be believed. The rest, which you try so eloquently to corral everyone into believing about your "success", has never been anything more that educated snippets stolen from gaming professionals' writings and sometimes rephrased, in an effort to get satisfaction that you've turned the forum masses into needing to look up at you. Which clearly explains why forum rejection forces you into losing your mind, and why you have this insane weakness never to stay gone every single time you announce you are quitting for good.

A wise man once said--"If a man tells us that he is going to perform a certain function in life and consistently fails to follow through on it, what worth do any of his words carry....forever?"

And THAT is why you remain in this endless forum loop, afraid of feeling irrelevant and terrified of becoming insane.

[MaxPen]

I'm really not concerned. I have paid my taxes.

It's everyone else saying I didn't. And everyone else saying I made a million dollars this year.

I never said I make $20,000 every week all year long. My words are constantly misconstrued.

As for Blackhole, I suggest he go over to read my posts at WOV where I have discussed plays and posted evidence before he opens his black hole again

I could only guess this detour means you won’t be posting any proof of anything, including any proof to confirm your stupid anonymous AP war stories from Wizard of Fools. With all this money you allege moving around you can’t post up a single part of it.

Like I said earlier any story you post over there is no different then the nonsense you post here like making 20K a week. Because you posted some bullshit stories at the Wizard of Fools, I'm not sure why you think that makes the story any truer? Please link me to any post you made over WOF where you posted proof. Post a canceled check from IRS front and back to confirm you even paid any taxes.

You will never prove a fucking thing because you can’t or you already would have.

You’re a 2-bit AP loser without any credit cards, or even a car. Not that those things really mean anything, but in your case, helps confirm your full of 2-bit bullshit.

Darkoz posted proof of his money moving around. What are you talking about? Don't you remember the pic of his daughter's boyfriend holding the cash he stole from Darkox? If that isn't "money moving around", then I don't know what is...

[MaxPen]

I can't and won't talk about everything I do, but basically two simple things. Betting limits and short sessions. If you saw the documentary "inside the edge" that has been talked about a lot lately, you see what happens when a player is playing limits that are outside the casinos comfort limits. KC was a high limit player and he drew immediate heat, backoffs, barring. That is exactly why I play moderate limits that are better tolerated, more within the casinos comfort levels. Once you identify what those better tolerated levels are, and you keep your sessions short, you can play unmolested, because you aren't creating a situation that anyone has to answer for. THAT is the reason backoffs, barrings occur, because the player has created a situation that the pit is going to have to answer for.

I have friends that work in the pit at two different casinos here in Vegas, one a local casino, one a strip casino. So I am going to tell you how backoffs, barings work at most Vegas casinos. Pit person notices a spread that like I said is outside the comfort or tolerance level. He calls upstairs for surveillance to do an evaluation. Once surveillance confirms the player moving money with the count, the pit backs off or bars the player. Now here is the thing many people don't know. There is paperwork that goes along with that. The pit people have to document everything that happened, interaction with surveillance, the interaction with player during the backoff/baring.

Translation = Extra work for the pit person. So reDXly they don't want to take this action unless they have to. Once you understand that, it is easy. You don't put them in that position. Betting limits that are better tolerated (within comfort level) and short sessions is going to take care of most of these problems. Short session means smaller wins. No, or few large 5 figure sessions that they have to answer for. And that pit person noticing the spread that starts the whole process, that occurs when a player drops back to the small wager at the shuffle after betting bigger before the shuffle. THAT is the big tell, not raising bets, but dropping back at the shuffle. I avoid that big tell by exiting after showing my spread, rather than drop back. It is one of my exit triggers as part of my short session strategy.

I have said this before, I am not tricking anyone (pit critters). I am not trying to trick anyone. I see the look of recognition on their face. And I suspect most know exactly what I am doing. But they also know I won't be there long and wont create a situation that they have to answer for. Won't create a situation that means extra work and paperwork for them. THAT is the key to longevity. I have been doing it for just about a decade in Vegas. There are players that have been doing it for 40, 50, 60 years. That is what card counting is. It isn't about the actually counting of cards, and betting more at certain times. A monkey could be taught that. The real skill is learning how and what is tolerated.

But go ahead, tell me "oh nobody can do that", because it is something you have no clue about.

Let me get this straight: In response to blackhole's not buying your bj bs, YOU say you outwit the game (as well as the pitbosses everywhere) by playing SHORT TERM SESSIONS, which as a math genius such as yourself should know (I say "such as yourself" because you always purport yourself as doing nothing but what the math demands of "winning" players) it's results cannot and should not ever be used as a barometer or indicator of "long term" actuality.

However....in true Liberal hypocrite form--where "what applies to me does not apply to you"--my particular play strategy that has an 85% possibility of being successful in every short term session (can your bj sessions even come close to that?) is totally incapable of winning over the long term as it has for the 4 years I played it.

This is only but one of the reasons why what you keep so desperately trying to push down the throats of everybody about yourself, is not to be believed. The rest, which you try so eloquently to corral everyone into believing about your "success", has never been anything more that educated snippets stolen from gaming professionals' writings and sometimes rephrased, in an effort to get satisfaction that you've turned the forum masses into needing to look up at you. Which clearly explains why forum rejection forces you into losing your mind, and why you have this insane weakness never to stay gone every single time you announce you are quitting for good.

A wise man once said--"If a man tells us that he is going to perform a certain function in life and consistently fails to follow through on it, what worth do any of his words carry....forever?"

And THAT is why you remain in this endless forum loop, afraid of feeling irrelevant and terrified of becoming insane.

Xmas freeroll. Run out to the Newell and take a pic with a Christmas card inside and I will send $1000 to your daughter's house for you. You don't even have to stand in the shower with the squeegee. Just stand in front of the bed with the Xmas card. Don't forget to smile though....

[blackhole]

Kewlj, you get an A for consistently. After so many years how many of the pits and dealers do you come across over and over again. There’s only so many casinos with so many shifts. After all these years none of them ever wondered why you’re always around day after day or week after week.

Every time I sat at a table game I was always asked for a card or if I wanted to be rated. Did the friends you know in the pits explain how that’s part of their job to know who is sitting at their tables? Are you saying after crossing the same pit bosses and dealers who asked you for a card or to get rated let’s say 10 times, neither take a special interest after you keep saying no? After so many years of this it gets hard to believe. You think the pit had a conversation with the dealer after seeing you over and over again for ten years?

So, what you’re saying is the casinos are willing to let you leave with over 2K per week and never show concern in you for the sake of not having to do paperwork.

You also said once you show your spread that’s the cue for you to exit. Let’s say you go through half of the shoe losing many more than winning $25.00 per hands. Now the count is in your favor, do you bet one or two hundred then run for the hills? Isn’t the whole idea of card counting to take advantage of a good count? Or do you ride the good count with your bigger bets which would be the only way to win at card counting before you pull out? Then just get up and leave with no i.d. over and over again year after year?

Something stinks in Denmark...

[kewlJ]

KJ, I am not a blackjack player but I know that it takes awhile to track the cards to verify what the count is, correct?

Given that, how short are the short sessions you play, and if they're short how can you accurately determine the count quickly?

Do you bet minimum til the count is right, then bet more, win, and immediately close out and leave?

MisterV, most evaluations start on the floor with pit calling upstairs to request an evaluation. So there has to be something that triggers that evaluation. Something that the pit see, that makes them uncomfortable. A player starting off betting $50 who suddenly ups his bet to $400, $500. Yeah, they will notice that, but there are many players that escalate their wagers. Players losing, bet more trying to quickly recoup losses. (That is called chasing losses). Progressive bettor increase wagers. Players winning, often "chip up" or bet more, trying to capitalize on a "winning streak". These are all longterm losing strategies, and the casino would love all these kinds of players. So raising bets alone, isn't the "tell". Again, the big tell is the retreat back to that small bet $50 at the shuffle. If you make that one of your exit triggers, you avoid that "tell".

A real evaluation takes 30 minutes. But they may see enough to make a determination in half that time if the count fluctuates fast enough. So to get to the point that an evaluation is requested and then the evaluation has to take at least 30 minutes.

So here are my exit triggers:

1.) I will exit a predetermined negative counts just because I would rather find a new game than play negative counts (sometimes the game right at the next table). This first exit trigger can results in some very short sessions. I have sat down had the count go significantly negative in 2-3 rounds and exited. That would be a 2 minute session. (extreme)

2.) is the previously mentioned, exit at the shuffle after showing my big bets rather than retreat back to small bet. So I sit down, playing off the top of a fresh shuffle. Count hovers around zero or slightly positive for a while as it tends to do. So Maybe I am betting $50, maybe occasionally $100 on a slightly positive count. Halfway through the shoe a lot of small cards come out and count rises. I bet $200, then $400, then maybe $600. Lets say $600 is my max bet. After a number of rounds betting my max bet, the cut card comes out meaning it is shuffle time. Whether I have won or lost, that is my exit trigger rather than retreat back to a small $50 wager. So that is 1 shoe of play, probably about 15 minutes, depending on number of players and if players are playing side bets.

3.) Lets say neither #1 or #2 has occurred, I will exit after 30-40 minutes, just because I don't want too much of my play on "tape".

These 3 exit triggers assure a short session and makes a really big win.....the kind of big win, someone has to answer for, less likely. Not impossible, but less likely. And even if there is something about your play that triggers an evaluation, there just isn't enough time. You are gone before a determination.

[kewlJ]

I can't and won't talk about everything I do, but basically two simple things. Betting limits and short sessions. If you saw the documentary "inside the edge" that has been talked about a lot lately, you see what happens when a player is playing limits that are outside the casinos comfort limits. KC was a high limit player and he drew immediate heat, backoffs, barring. That is exactly why I play moderate limits that are better tolerated, more within the casinos comfort levels. Once you identify what those better tolerated levels are, and you keep your sessions short, you can play unmolested, because you aren't creating a situation that anyone has to answer for. THAT is the reason backoffs, barrings occur, because the player has created a situation that the pit is going to have to answer for.

I have friends that work in the pit at two different casinos here in Vegas, one a local casino, one a strip casino. So I am going to tell you how backoffs, barings work at most Vegas casinos. Pit person notices a spread that like I said is outside the comfort or tolerance level. He calls upstairs for surveillance to do an evaluation. Once surveillance confirms the player moving money with the count, the pit backs off or bars the player. Now here is the thing many people don't know. There is paperwork that goes along with that. The pit people have to document everything that happened, interaction with surveillance, the interaction with player during the backoff/baring.

Translation = Extra work for the pit person. So really they don't want to take this action unless they have to. Once you understand that, it is easy. You don't put them in that position. Betting limits that are better tolerated (within comfort level) and short sessions is going to take care of most of these problems. Short session means smaller wins. No, or few large 5 figure sessions that they have to answer for. And that pit person noticing the spread that starts the whole process, that occurs when a player drops back to the small wager at the shuffle after betting bigger before the shuffle. THAT is the big tell, not raising bets, but dropping back at the shuffle. I avoid that big tell by exiting after showing my spread, rather than drop back. It is one of my exit triggers as part of my short session strategy.

I have said this before, I am not tricking anyone (pit critters). I am not trying to trick anyone. I see the look of recognition on their face. And I suspect most know exactly what I am doing. But they also know I won't be there long and wont create a situation that they have to answer for. Won't create a situation that means extra work and paperwork for them. THAT is the key to longevity. I have been doing it for just about a decade in Vegas. There are players that have been doing it for 40, 50, 60 years. That is what card counting is. It isn't about the actually counting of cards, and betting more at certain times. A monkey could be taught that. The real skill is learning how and what is tolerated.

But go ahead, tell me "oh nobody can do that", because it is something you have no clue about.

Let me get this straight: In response to blackhole's not buying your bj bs, YOU say you outwit the game (as well as the pitbosses everywhere) by playing SHORT TERM SESSIONS, which as a math genius such as yourself should know (I say "such as yourself" because you always purport yourself as doing nothing but what the math demands of "winning" players) it's results cannot and should not ever be used as a barometer or indicator of "long term" actuality.

However....in true Liberal hypocrite form--where "what applies to me does not apply to you"--my particular play strategy that has an 85% possibility of being successful in every short term session (can your bj sessions even come close to that?) is totally incapable of winning over the long term as it has for the 4 years I played it.

This is only but one of the reasons why what you keep so desperately trying to push down the throats of everybody about yourself, is not to be believed. The rest, which you try so eloquently to corral everyone into believing about your "success", has never been anything more that educated snippets stolen from gaming professionals' writings and sometimes rephrased, in an effort to get satisfaction that you've turned the forum masses into needing to look up at you. Which clearly explains why forum rejection forces you into losing your mind, and why you have this insane weakness never to stay gone every single time you announce you are quitting for good.

A wise man once said--"If a man tells us that he is going to perform a certain function in life and consistently fails to follow through on it, what worth do any of his words carry....forever?"

And THAT is why you remain in this endless forum loop, afraid of feeling irrelevant and terrified of becoming insane.

Rob the difference is my play is +EV, because I am doing something that results in it being +EV...card counting, and betting more in +EV situations and less or not at all in -EV situation. Under those circumstances, yes, many small sessions (I actually count rounds) will get you to the longterm.

Now, you on the other hand, start out playing -EV game, add in your special plays and it becomes even less optimal or more -EV, if you will. You are trying to use short sessions as the thing that flips your play from -EV to +EV and that is just nonsense. If you were doing something, anything legit that makes the game +EV, or even starting out playing a 100+% games, then yes all the short sessions equals longterm positive expectation.

What you seem to want to do is take one short -EV session and add another and another short -EV session and somehow think that makes the total play +EV. Negative + negative does not equal positive!

[kewlJ]

Kewlj, you get an A for consistently. After so many years how many of the pits and dealers do you come across over and over again. There’s only so many casinos with so many shifts. After all these years none of them ever wondered why you’re always around day after day or week after week.

Every time I sat at a table game I was always asked for a card or if I wanted to be rated. Did the friends you know in the pits explain how that’s part of their job to know who is sitting at their tables? Are you saying after crossing the same pit bosses and dealers who asked you for a card or to get rated let’s say 10 times, neither take a special interest after you keep saying no? After so many years of this it gets hard to believe. You think the pit had a conversation with the dealer after seeing you over and over again for ten years?

So, what you’re saying is the casinos are willing to let you leave with over 2K per week and never show concern in you for the sake of not having to do paperwork.

You also said once you show your spread that’s the cue for you to exit. Let’s say you go through half of the shoe losing many more than winning $25.00 per hands. Now the count is in your favor, do you bet one or two hundred then run for the hills? Isn’t the whole idea of card counting to take advantage of a good count? Or do you ride the good count with your bigger bets which would be the only way to win at card counting before you pull out? Then just get up and leave with no i.d. over and over again year after year?

Something stinks in Denmark...

I don't know what Denmark smells like as I have never been there.

No you don't bet big one or two rounds and then exit. You exit at the next shuffle after betting big.

There are lots of ways to avoid playing rated. I don't want to get into specifics, but plenty of things you can say, like, "No I only have a couple minutes". Also you body language, and buying in amounts and playing with a chip inventory play a part in that. Like I said, I am not going to get into that, you should be able to figure it out.

[coach belly]

my play is +EV, because I am doing something that results in it being +EV

I bet $200, then $400, then maybe $600. Lets say $600 is my max bet. After a number of rounds betting my max bet, the cut card comes out meaning it is shuffle time.

LOL...after a number of rounds of max bets, the cut card comes out? And how many rounds is that?

In the scenario above, you're playing -EV for most of your max bet hands.

More complete bullshit from another low-IQ pinhead.

[Rob.Singer]

In light of kew's continuingly embarrassing himself by posting concocted -EV bj betting schemes, may I suggest he put on the brakes and relax with a fine bourbon while listening to one of the greatest albums of all time--Astral Weeks by the incomparable Van Morrison.

Once this occurs, he will be able to trace his own dark history and the reason he needs so much acceptance from groups of other anonymous personalities. And it is at this point in time that I would redirect him to Morrison's Moondance album, which should in itself bring about a positive change in his very sour life.

[coach belly]

And it is at this point in time that I would redirect him to Morrison's Moondance album

From my neighborhood to yours...

[wasilla]

KJ, I am not a blackjack player but I know that it takes awhile to track the cards to verify what the count is, correct?

Given that, how short are the short sessions you play, and if they're short how can you accurately determine the count quickly?

Do you bet minimum til the count is right, then bet more, win, and immediately close out and leave?

MisterV, most evaluations start on the floor with pit calling upstairs to request an evaluation. So there has to be something that triggers that evaluation. Something that the pit see, that makes them uncomfortable. A player starting off betting $50 who suddenly ups his bet to $400, $500. Yeah, they will notice that, but there are many players that escalate their wagers. Players losing, bet more trying to quickly recoup losses. (That is called chasing losses). Progressive bettor increase wagers. Players winning, often "chip up" or bet more, trying to capitalize on a "winning streak". These are all longterm losing strategies, and the casino would love all these kinds of players. So raising bets alone, isn't the "tell". Again, the big tell is the retreat back to that small bet $50 at the shuffle. If you make that one of your exit triggers, you avoid that "tell".

A real evaluation takes 30 minutes. But they may see enough to make a determination in half that time if the count fluctuates fast enough. So to get to the point that an evaluation is requested and then the evaluation has to take at least 30 minutes.

So here are my exit triggers:

1.) I will exit a predetermined negative counts just because I would rather find a new game than play negative counts (sometimes the game right at the next table). This first exit trigger can results in some very short sessions. I have sat down had the count go significantly negative in 2-3 rounds and exited. That would be a 2 minute session. (extreme)

2.) is the previously mentioned, exit at the shuffle after showing my big bets rather than retreat back to small bet. So I sit down, playing off the top of a fresh shuffle. Count hovers around zero or slightly positive for a while as it tends to do. So Maybe I am betting $50, maybe occasionally $100 on a slightly positive count. Halfway through the shoe a lot of small cards come out and count rises. I bet $200, then $400, then maybe $600. Lets say $600 is my max bet. After a number of rounds betting my max bet, the cut card comes out meaning it is shuffle time. Whether I have won or lost, that is my exit trigger rather than retreat back to a small $50 wager. So that is 1 shoe of play, probably about 15 minutes, depending on number of players and if players are playing side bets.

3.) Lets say neither #1 or #2 has occurred, I will exit after 30-40 minutes, just because I don't want too much of my play on "tape".

These 3 exit triggers assure a short session and makes a really big win.....the kind of big win, someone has to answer for, less likely. Not impossible, but less likely. And even if there is something about your play that triggers an evaluation, there just isn't enough time. You are gone before a determination.

I joined close to a year ago thinking this forum had professional gamblers talking about professional gambling. Enjoyed your post.

[jbjb]

Ole Axle got 7 days. Freddy is going to have a hussy fit he didn't get martingaled to about 672 days.

[kewlJ]

Ole Axle got 7 days. Freddy is going to have a hussy fit he didn't get martingaled to about 672 days.

I don't think Axel should have even been suspended at all...at least not for what he was suspended for, telling the truth. Maybe he should have been suspended for the idiocrasy of continuing that stupid thread and challenge that was never going to happen.

This is one of Mike's biggest, faults in my opinion, his inflexibility. And especially when Mike himself knows and recognized that both MDawg and coach belly were just trolling. I can't tell you how I know that is how Mike feels, because that would violate some privacy rule....but I do know for a fact that is how he felt.

So what Axel did was just clean up the mess that Mike should have long ago.

[kewlJ]

KJ, I am not a blackjack player but I know that it takes awhile to track the cards to verify what the count is, correct?

Given that, how short are the short sessions you play, and if they're short how can you accurately determine the count quickly?

Do you bet minimum til the count is right, then bet more, win, and immediately close out and leave?

MisterV, most evaluations start on the floor with pit calling upstairs to request an evaluation. So there has to be something that triggers that evaluation. Something that the pit see, that makes them uncomfortable. A player starting off betting $50 who suddenly ups his bet to $400, $500. Yeah, they will notice that, but there are many players that escalate their wagers. Players losing, bet more trying to quickly recoup losses. (That is called chasing losses). Progressive bettor increase wagers. Players winning, often "chip up" or bet more, trying to capitalize on a "winning streak". These are all longterm losing strategies, and the casino would love all these kinds of players. So raising bets alone, isn't the "tell". Again, the big tell is the retreat back to that small bet $50 at the shuffle. If you make that one of your exit triggers, you avoid that "tell".

A real evaluation takes 30 minutes. But they may see enough to make a determination in half that time if the count fluctuates fast enough. So to get to the point that an evaluation is requested and then the evaluation has to take at least 30 minutes.

So here are my exit triggers:

1.) I will exit a predetermined negative counts just because I would rather find a new game than play negative counts (sometimes the game right at the next table). This first exit trigger can results in some very short sessions. I have sat down had the count go significantly negative in 2-3 rounds and exited. That would be a 2 minute session. (extreme)

2.) is the previously mentioned, exit at the shuffle after showing my big bets rather than retreat back to small bet. So I sit down, playing off the top of a fresh shuffle. Count hovers around zero or slightly positive for a while as it tends to do. So Maybe I am betting $50, maybe occasionally $100 on a slightly positive count. Halfway through the shoe a lot of small cards come out and count rises. I bet $200, then $400, then maybe $600. Lets say $600 is my max bet. After a number of rounds betting my max bet, the cut card comes out meaning it is shuffle time. Whether I have won or lost, that is my exit trigger rather than retreat back to a small $50 wager. So that is 1 shoe of play, probably about 15 minutes, depending on number of players and if players are playing side bets.

3.) Lets say neither #1 or #2 has occurred, I will exit after 30-40 minutes, just because I don't want too much of my play on "tape".

These 3 exit triggers assure a short session and makes a really big win.....the kind of big win, someone has to answer for, less likely. Not impossible, but less likely. And even if there is something about your play that triggers an evaluation, there just isn't enough time. You are gone before a determination.

I joined close to a year ago thinking this forum had professional gamblers talking about professional gambling. Enjoyed your post.

Thank you Wasilla. This forum had and still has some professional players (AP's) and some AP's that while they may not play professionally, are of that level. And there used to be even more. Unfortunately, the anti-AP fraction has taken over this forum and has the bigger say, because they just troll non-stop.

This has happened to some degree on most of these gambling related sites, including WoV. And that is why many of the real AP's and professional players have gone underground, participating on forum that are private, and the trolls and anti-APers can't get to.

[Ozzy]

Any rational moderator under these circumstances, would have given Axel a pass for his last post. He called it the way it was and did what he had to do, to finalize that shitstorm. As predicted, the dictator did what he does best, dole out ANOTHER unwarranted suspension. Nobody was surprised by his actions.