The WoV Thread

[Darkoz]

What did it say? Wizard redacted it before I could read it.

I was busy watching the Sound of Music with my gf for three hours

[MisterV]

I was busy watching the Sound of Music with my gf for three hours

I remember one night I was tripping on mescaline in college, it was the middle of the night and the only thing on the TV screen was the test pattern.

Somehow my buddy fed his stereo feed to the TV which caused the screen to show separate moving images for bass, snare, guitar ... I really enjoyed watching the sound of music.

[mickeycrimm]

Darkoz, per your 2nd NY AP move thread, it looks like Eddie Teams was doing the same as you or something similar at Resorts World in Queens. He describes it in this article. It's several paragraphs down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._QyUWJG3k1Fuks

Eddie Teams taught Kelly Sun how to edge sort and she later teamed up with Phil Ivey. And I think there was some scuttlebut about him getting roughed up at Luxor or Mandalay Bay by security for working the advantage slots.

[MaxPen]

Darkoz, per your 2nd NY AP move thread, it looks like Eddie Teams was doing the same as you or something similar at Resorts World in Queens. He describes it in this article. It's several paragraphs down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._QyUWJG3k1Fuks

Eddie Teams taught Kelly Sun how to edge sort and she later teamed up with Phil Ivey. And I think there was some scuttlebut about him getting roughed up at Luxor or Mandalay Bay by security for working the advantage slots.

The story of the Plaza is exaggerated BS. $200k per machine....lol

[Darkoz]

Darkoz, per your 2nd NY AP move thread, it looks like Eddie Teams was doing the same as you or something similar at Resorts World in Queens. He describes it in this article. It's several paragraphs down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._QyUWJG3k1Fuks

Eddie Teams taught Kelly Sun how to edge sort and she later teamed up with Phil Ivey. And I think there was some scuttlebut about him getting roughed up at Luxor or Mandalay Bay by security for working the advantage slots.

Thanks, Mickey

He was doing my original NY AP move at Craps it seems although I don't think he was pulling the cards. Simply achieving a high theoretical.

Pulling the cards (to simulate high wins not losses) at Resorts Work on Craps would result in $6,000 freeplay for two months (he says 8,000 for three months but that's wrong. He might be changing details purposely, forgot the details or was plain misquoted. Freeplay never lasted more than two months at Resorts since they linked ADT to kiosks in 2014.)

Anyway, pulling the cards to simulate winning would cost about $100 per card. He says $500 so he was just doing the theoretical. The reason that was possible there as well was because the wagers at Craps including the free odds wagers all contributed to ADT!

To backup his claims I am familiar with the 2018 shutdown of offers obtained at the tables. I am familiar with some of the rival teams that were at Resorts World at that time (not the one in the article) and I remember them bitching about the shutdown at the time. It was for players getting offers from E-games.

I was unaffected for another year as I was into my 2nd NY AP move using the freeplay at the slots to generate offers instead.

WHAT IS REALLY SAD is that this guy in the article seemed to be unaware that in 2018 they had installed slots on the 3rd floor of Resorts World that printed out the same vouchers as the kiosks in order to alleviate the long lines. If he had known that his Resorts World operation would have lasted two and a half years like mine instead of just two and a half months.

I had voucher pullers doing twenty cards apiece but by sitting at slots only. Inserting your players card into a slot and removing vouchers from slots was so un-surveillable!

Finally, he said he had one guy pulling fifty cards (at kiosks no less) but I think that's over exagerated as there were stumbling blocks to going that hard.

Number one, there are only about twenty Craps seats at Resorts World. They have three, maybe four E-tables with five to ten seats apiece and not all would be available as it's a popular game. Playing doey-dont required two seats right there and to get the calendar size required about five hours of play (the $600 Jackpot limitations at NYC racinos limited how high you could push obtaining ADT in your wagers).

He would have been competing for seats with other teams besides ploppies. I don't see him doing as many cards at once as he claimed.

A second stumbling block, Resorts World doesn't exactly give freeplay. You have to earn EVERY SINGLE OFFER twenty points on your players card. They got tired of people just taking offers a long time ago

So his voucher pullers would be obligated to gamble for 20 points on each card every single day. So I am not so certain he had as many as he claims

All in all I hit Resorts World for over two years 2012-2014, and then waited for a very heat heavy situation to cool off and I hit them for another 2 1/2 years 2017-2019

[blackhole]

Darkoz, per your 2nd NY AP move thread, it looks like Eddie Teams was doing the same as you or something similar at Resorts World in Queens. He describes it in this article. It's several paragraphs down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._QyUWJG3k1Fuks

Eddie Teams taught Kelly Sun how to edge sort and she later teamed up with Phil Ivey. And I think there was some scuttlebut about him getting roughed up at Luxor or Mandalay Bay by security for working the advantage slots.

You know I wouldn’t doubt for one second if Darkey finds these old AP articles like this one from Eddie Teams at Resorts in NY and then claims on gambling forums they were his own idea.

Darkey is so full of shit, I wouldn’t put anything past him for attention.

I also read in that thread “2nd NY play” on Wizard of Fools, Darkey mentions his book is done. But, it’s in hibernation since he hasn’t gotten a chance to shop it around.

Personally, gambling books are a dime a dozen. Anything and everything about gambling has been published more than once especially AP’ing. If Darkie thinks a publisher would pay him for his memoirs, AP plays, or even his fiction story about coming out of the gutter to gambling riches, man is he in for a surprise. He might already know those facts and that’s why the book is in hibernation.

He’ll only be able to self-publish something so much not in demand both in context and interest. It’ll probably cost him between 8 and 10K to self-publish explaining why the book is in hibernation and will never see the light of day. Maybe Darkey isn't as stupid as I think and realizes he'll never get 10% of his book investment back.

I’m starting to get convinced that Darkey is actually a full-blown broken-down shoe.

[Darkoz]

Darkoz, per your 2nd NY AP move thread, it looks like Eddie Teams was doing the same as you or something similar at Resorts World in Queens. He describes it in this article. It's several paragraphs down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._QyUWJG3k1Fuks

Eddie Teams taught Kelly Sun how to edge sort and she later teamed up with Phil Ivey. And I think there was some scuttlebut about him getting roughed up at Luxor or Mandalay Bay by security for working the advantage slots.

You know I wouldn’t doubt for one second if Darkey finds these old AP articles like this one from Eddie Teams at Resorts in NY and then claims on gambling forums they were his own idea.

Darkey is so full of shit, I wouldn’t put anything past him for attention.

I also read in that thread “2nd NY play” on Wizard of Fools, Darkey mentions his book is done. But, it’s in hibernation since he hasn’t gotten a chance to shop it around.

Personally, gambling books are a dime a dozen. Anything and everything about gambling has been published more than once especially AP’ing. If Darkie thinks a publisher would pay him for his memoirs, AP plays, or even his fiction story about coming out of the gutter to gambling riches, man is he in for a surprise. He might already know those facts and that’s why the book is in hibernation.

He’ll only be able to self-publish something so much not in demand both in context and interest. It’ll probably cost him between 8 and 10K to self-publish explaining why the book is in hibernation and will never see the light of day. Maybe Darkey isn't as stupid as I think and realizes he'll never get 10% of his book investment back.

I’m starting to get convinced that Darkey is actually a full-blown broken-down shoe.

If anyone still doesn't think Blackhole has been living in his basement for fifty years it this post along with him not even knowing about redemption machines.

Digital on-demand technology makes the cost of self-publishing about $100. Yet retard Blackhole thinks it still has to be printed in a print shop for ten grand

Jesus Blackhole can you please leave your hovel and join the 21 century.

I bet Blackhole doesn't want to take pictures with a cell phone because he doesn't want to have get them developed at the lab

[blackhole]

If anyone still doesn't think Blackhole has been living in his basement for fifty years it this post along with him not even knowing about redemption machines.

Digital on-demand technology makes the cost of self-publishing about $100. Yet retard Blackhole thinks it still has to be printed in a print shop for ten grand

Jesus Blackhole can you please leave your hovel and join the 21 century.

I bet Blackhole doesn't want to take pictures with a cell phone because he doesn't want to have get them developed at the lab

A book is a book. Some bullshit you could read online for a hundred bucks is exactly that. I'm betting you wouldn't even go for the hundred bucks.

Time for you to hunt down another play someone else found that you will try and claim for yourself.

[Darkoz]

If anyone still doesn't think Blackhole has been living in his basement for fifty years it this post along with him not even knowing about redemption machines.

Digital on-demand technology makes the cost of self-publishing about $100. Yet retard Blackhole thinks it still has to be printed in a print shop for ten grand

Jesus Blackhole can you please leave your hovel and join the 21 century.

I bet Blackhole doesn't want to take pictures with a cell phone because he doesn't want to have get them developed at the lab

A book is a book. Some bullshit you could read online for a hundred bucks is exactly that. I'm betting you wouldn't even go for the hundred bucks.

Time for you to hunt down another play someone else found that you will try and claim for yourself.

Like the one where I stick a plunger up your Blackhole and you pay me $100 admitting it's the first time you ever enjoyed sex

[Garnabby]

MisterV, most evaluations start on the floor with pit calling upstairs to request an evaluation. So there has to be something that triggers that evaluation. Something that the pit see, that makes them uncomfortable. A player starting off betting $50 who suddenly ups his bet to $400, $500. Yeah, they will notice that, but there are many players that escalate their wagers. Players losing, bet more trying to quickly recoup losses. (That is called chasing losses). Progressive bettor increase wagers. Players winning, often "chip up" or bet more, trying to capitalize on a "winning streak". These are all longterm losing strategies, and the casino would love all these kinds of players. So raising bets alone, isn't the "tell". Again, the big tell is the retreat back to that small bet $50 at the shuffle. If you make that one of your exit triggers, you avoid that "tell".

A real evaluation takes 30 minutes. But they may see enough to make a determination in half that time if the count fluctuates fast enough. So to get to the point that an evaluation is requested and then the evaluation has to take at least 30 minutes.

So here are my exit triggers:

1.) I will exit a predetermined negative counts just because I would rather find a new game than play negative counts (sometimes the game right at the next table). This first exit trigger can results in some very short sessions. I have sat down had the count go significantly negative in 2-3 rounds and exited. That would be a 2 minute session. (extreme)

2.) is the previously mentioned, exit at the shuffle after showing my big bets rather than retreat back to small bet. So I sit down, playing off the top of a fresh shuffle. Count hovers around zero or slightly positive for a while as it tends to do. So Maybe I am betting $50, maybe occasionally $100 on a slightly positive count. Halfway through the shoe a lot of small cards come out and count rises. I bet $200, then $400, then maybe $600. Lets say $600 is my max bet. After a number of rounds betting my max bet, the cut card comes out meaning it is shuffle time. Whether I have won or lost, that is my exit trigger rather than retreat back to a small $50 wager. So that is 1 shoe of play, probably about 15 minutes, depending on number of players and if players are playing side bets.

3.) Lets say neither #1 or #2 has occurred, I will exit after 30-40 minutes, just because I don't want too much of my play on "tape".

These 3 exit triggers assure a short session and makes a really big win.....the kind of big win, someone has to answer for, less likely. Not impossible, but less likely. And even if there is something about your play that triggers an evaluation, there just isn't enough time. You are gone before a determination.

I joined close to a year ago thinking this forum had professional gamblers talking about professional gambling. Enjoyed your post.

Thank you Wasilla. This forum had and still has some professional players (AP's) and some AP's that while they may not play professionally, are of that level. And there used to be even more. Unfortunately, the anti-AP fraction has taken over this forum and has the bigger say, because they just troll non-stop.

This has happened to some degree on most of these gambling related sites, including WoV. And that is why many of the real AP's and professional players have gone underground, participating on forum that are private, and the trolls and anti-APers can't get to.

More nonsense. No?

Then show and explain how I have trolled this or another site? It's easy to resort to talk about "private" internet sites. And to nonsensical blackjack advice to persons who have never studied and played blackjack.

[BoSox]

I joined close to a year ago thinking this forum had professional gamblers talking about professional gambling. Enjoyed your post.

Thank you Wasilla. This forum had and still has some professional players (AP's) and some AP's that while they may not play professionally, are of that level. And there used to be even more. Unfortunately, the anti-AP fraction has taken over this forum and has the bigger say, because they just troll non-stop.

This has happened to some degree on most of these gambling related sites, including WoV. And that is why many of the real AP's and professional players have gone underground, participating on forum that are private, and the trolls and anti-APers can't get to.

More nonsense. No?

Then show and explain how I have trolled this or another site? It's easy to resort to talk about "private" internet sites. And to nonsensical blackjack advice to persons who have never studied and played blackjack.

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

[Garnabby]

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

KJ mentioned an anti-AP faction that trolls here. What the heck was he talking about?

Bosox, I think that you have quite a "chip on your shoulder". Always trying for some sort of finger-hold or in. You won't find one with me, because I most always say what's on my mind, regardless whose "toes are stepped on", and, I have nothing to hide. An honest zest for life.

fac·tion1
noun

a small organized dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics.

[Darkoz]

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

KJ mentioned an anti-AP faction that trolls here. What the heck was he talking about?

Bosox, I think that you have quite a "chip on your shoulder". Always trying for some sort of finger-hold or in. You won't find one with me, because I most always say what's on my mind, regardless whose "toes are stepped on", and, I have nothing to hide. An honest zest for life.

fac·tion1
noun

a small organized dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics.

He is primarily talking about Coach Belly, Blackhole and I believe Rob Singer even though he claims to have done the double up bug I believe.

To a lesser extent I would include MDawg who puts AP's down because they make more sense than his wild winning by luck every day claims. But he isn't an AP denier like the other ones mentioned

[BoSox]

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

KJ mentioned an anti-AP faction that trolls here. What the heck was he talking about?

Evidentially, he was also talking about you. Great perception Professor. Thank you for the clarification. Did you conclude all of this foresight by making and solving another Math Problem?

[Keystone]

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

KJ mentioned an anti-AP faction that trolls here. What the heck was he talking about?

Bosox, I think that you have quite a "chip on your shoulder". Always trying for some sort of finger-hold or in. You won't find one with me, because I most always say what's on my mind, regardless whose "toes are stepped on", and, I have nothing to hide. An honest zest for life.

fac·tion1
noun

a small organized dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics.

He is primarily talking about Coach Belly, Blackhole and I believe Rob Singer even though he claims to have done the double up bug I believe.

To a lesser extent I would include MDawg who puts AP's down because they make more sense than his wild winning by luck every day claims. But he isn't an AP denier like the other ones mentioned

Blackhole seems to have attained some financial success in his life which is why I would guess he snubs his nose at it...understandable......Belly on the other hand is a flunkie freshman HS asst coach who sits in the corner of the boys locker room after everyone has gone home and plays 20 Questions on all these forums with one hand, and sniffing jock straps with the other

[Garnabby]

Thanks, Darkoz.

But, on at least one prolonged occasion, not recently, I tried to get to the "nuts and bolts" bottom of KJ's blackjack stuff. I gave up, after the run-around started, and, determining that no way it could be near true.

Naturally, especially after more broad aspersions, from KJ, above, I immediately sought some further clarification. I mean, if one member of the alleged such faction, me -given my similarly professed doubts - is okay, then what of the others?

Moreover, it's nothing of anti-AP-ism, as some long-standing deep involvement in specific and general with blackjack, etc, for a few posters to call what he and others like him does foolish nonsense. I say, let Blackhole and the others each say their piece. To me, trolling is like high-jacking an internet site's software, or, trying to sell something unrelated. It's not whatever of what the insecure without real and actual proof, etc, can't handle.

[Garnabby]

Did you hear your name mentioned at all, or are you always overly paranoid with a guilty feeling?

KJ mentioned an anti-AP faction that trolls here. What the heck was he talking about?

Evidentially, he was also talking about you. Great perception Professor. Thank you for the clarification. Did you conclude all of this foresight by making and solving another Math Problem?

More evidently, you don't know what you are talking about. You presume to know everything that happened here before you started posted here. Same as with my mentioning the kidney transplant stuff, when Crimm was writing about his health troubles. I had mentioned it, before, to Alan. A recurring topic here.

[BoSox]

Thanks, Darkoz.

But, on at least one prolonged occasion, not recently, I tried to get to the "nuts and bolts" bottom of KJ's blackjack stuff. I gave up, after the run-around started, and, determining that no way it could be near true.

When was that around 2010? You were right I wasn't around for the discussion.

[kewlJ]

What the hell are you talking about garnaby? If you don't understand card counting, you must not be very smart because it is a very simple concept.

[Garnabby]

Well, now that you mention it, card counting is stupid. A game of cardboard.