Kewlj the greatest lesson I ever learned about team play came from Frank Kneeland who is famous for running VP teams and wrote a book about it.
Want to know his secret?
He never played with his own money and never would. And his players getting paid with EV? LOL
Stop hallucinating.
You know not accurately reporting for your taxes is at least slightly illegal, right?Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
That's right Axel. I have never had a profitable year gambling. And I have never claimed a profit in any year. You can ask my ex wives, their attorneys and it says so on all my tax returns. Never a profit. And darn it's so frustrating when the net loss is just one buck.Originally Posted by AxelWolfI'm fairly sure you have proudly claimed on more than one occasion that you have never had a profitable year gambling.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
My reporting is 100% accurate. I've even had audits with the IRS when I've shown them $2.9-million in W2Gs but had,a loss on the year. Over the last dozen years I've had two audits.
Are you telling me that Frankie NEVER played any +EV games with his own money?Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Next time you talk to him, ask him if he was dumb enough to play flush Attack and a few other good opportunities for someone else.
Do you know what happened to the teams he ran? Rhetorical question.
Last edited by AxelWolf; 06-06-2018 at 04:21 PM.
Same with the MIT Blackjack Team investors.Originally Posted by AxelWolfAre you telling me that Frankie NEVER played any +EV games with his own money?Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Next time you talk to him, ask him if he was dumb enough to play flush Attack and a few other good opportunities for someone else.
Do you know what happened to the teams he ran? Rhetorical question.
I was not saying I didnt belive you(One of your few gambling stories I actully belive). I must have miss understood what you were getting at talking to RS. I assumed you were impying that you had a profitable year when you hit the 100k's.Originally Posted by Alan MendelsonThat's right Axel. I have never had a profitable year gambling. And I have never claimed a profit in any year. You can ask my ex wives, their attorneys and it says so on all my tax returns. Never a profit. And darn it's so frustrating when the net loss is just one buck.Originally Posted by AxelWolfI'm fairly sure you have proudly claimed on more than one occasion that you have never had a profitable year gambling.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Are you satisfied with the fact you have never had a winning year gambling?
Obviously, no one like to lose. I guess I'm asking if its been worth the entertainment value or do you regret gambling?
Do 4 or more of these apply to you?
Needs to gamble with increasing amounts of money in order to achieve the desired excitement
Is restless or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop gambling
Has made repeated unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop gambling
Is often preoccupied with gambling (e.g., having persistent thoughts of reliving past gambling experiences, handicapping or planning the next venture, thinking of ways to get money with which to gamble)
Often gambles when feeling distressed (e.g., helpless, guilty, anxious, depressed)
After losing money gambling, often returns another day to get even ("chasing" one's losses)
Lies to conceal the extent of involvement with gambling
Has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, education or career opportunity because of gambling
Relies on others to provide money to relieve desperate financial situations caused by gambling
has contempt anyone who gains an mathimatical edge over the casino
Witnesses gaming events with astronomically impossible odds
Been married at a craps table
That was good. Tone is everything.
I've met with Frank several times, and what Alan says he was told by him is what Frank explained to me also.Originally Posted by AxelWolfAre you telling me that Frankie NEVER played any +EV games with his own money?Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Next time you talk to him, ask him if he was dumb enough to play flush Attack and a few other good opportunities for someone else.
Do you know what happened to the teams he ran? Rhetorical question.
Frank had no job and simply didn't have the money to chase +EV games on his own. His income came from people like Tom Robertson, who paid him to play because of his excellent aptitude for vp. And you can guess as to what kind of money his own "teams" made.
"Team play" is a joke. I also know two other LV "lurkers" who are very well-equipped intelligence-wise but are unable to make a normal living out of it. And in the same vein as Frank, neither plays with their own money. Sure the AP-concept of what team play is and how it might be beneficial to those who can hack a life only a small slice above what everyone has a picture in their minds of how mickeycrimm slogs along, is certainly interesting to read about. But as in just about everything AP's try to relate to others about, it's nothing more than another day/another theory. And if you like phantom bucks, you'll absolutely LOVE team play.
Without any specific knowledge I can pretty easily extrapolate what Alan means when he tells about his yearly gaming results.
First--he has a healthy collection of ex's, and they probably don't live as far away as Texas. Unlike most internet forum cowards, he let's all know his real name. He's also unlike the majority of people who post on these forums, in that it's easy to figure that he's not broke. So how many people here would, under similar circumstances, blab in posts how much extra income you have won from gambling each year? Now he could be a winner or a loser. Not anyone else's business if he doesn't want it to be their business, and if he chooses to spoof the online crowd or tell tales of what he reports to the IRS, as you can plainly see he has his reasons. You'd most probably do the same if you were as smart as him.
Sorry, does not compute.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Alan seems no smarter than the average poster on these boards.
His gambling superstitions and innumeracy certainly are not a plus for him.
What, Me Worry?
Originally Posted by MisterVSorry, does not compute.Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Alan seems no smarter than the average poster on these boards.
His gambling superstitions and innumeracy certainly are not a plus for him.
Deep Thought of the Day: It looks different on the printed page, but "The Undeniable Truth" sure sounds a lot like "The Unreliable Spoof."
Unlike most internet forum cowards, he let's all know his real name. singer
That is not an indication of honesty or valiant behavior...its an indication of self promotion and or ego
People who post their real name WANT people to know their real name for self promoting reasons. Maybe its ego and a look at me personality that they possess. Maybe there is financial reason in that they have a "brand" or something to sell now or in the future.
When they use their real legal moniker..its not in the name of "fair play:"...its something they want to do for selfish reasons.
So stop with the elevation of people who use their real names.....they do it for themselves....not for the good of society.
plus using your real name does not preclude one from having a million sock puppets. In fact using a real name makes peope more apt to want to use sock puppets more because they are personally invested in a debate and their name is on the line..so the socks are apt to come to the rescue.
I hate admitting when you are right and have a valid point such as this one.Originally Posted by LarryS
I now feel dirtier than the balls you love washing (-;
Originally Posted by LarryS
Interesting opinion. I completely disagree.
I use my real name because I stand by what I say and the consequences of that shouldn't be divided into "internet consequences" and "real-life consequences." I expect consequences to result from what's written and am willing to deal with them. If people track me down and have issues, well, that's life. Or death. One or the other.
This anonymity stuff is for children. Research papers have names attached. Researchers stand by their work. Journalists attach their names. They stand by what they say, and they take risks for doing that. Police badges have real names. Now unless you want to compare internet blabbing to working undercover or being in the CIA or being a left-wing journalist in China, what's the point of posting under a pseudonym? The threat of consequences breeds civility, for the most part, and I think that's a good thing.
Maybe being an assertive loudmouth on the internet without real-life consequences is a substitute for asserting oneself in real life. Who knows? I just don't see the point of anonymity, and I'm not a scaredy-cat.
As far as self-promotion goes, I went years and thousands of posts without mentioning what I do, until one day Argentino's wide-ranging claims to expertise just went a step too far. So I said, basically, you know, dude, I have more experience and more expertise gambling than you do, and here's why. We went from there. Plus I was kind of sick of his language with arcimedes.
P.S. It occurred to me that the five for-all-practical-purposes non-anonymous people on this forum are Mr. Mendelson, Argentino, mickeycrimm, myself, and Dan, because everybody knows who he is. I don't think any of those five are lacking real-world assertiveness.
Last edited by redietz; 06-08-2018 at 02:53 PM.
you have continually made reference to being in a publication that rhymed...i forget the name...something like "cocksuckers and mother fuckers".
without knowing your name it could not be verified.
you are promoting a ":brand" for now or for the future. Its rather obvious. You have a service....you make money from it, and supposedly for others...and you want people to know who is behind this great "investment counseling"
yeah right..its all about "fair play". Nope. I think judge judy had a book called..."dont fuck me in the ass and tell me you are taking my temperature"
I think that is apropos here.
although KJ is writing book....."Please fuck me in the ass and tell me you are taking my temperature"
LOL -- I appear to have struck a nerve. I have not recruited one person -- ever -- from a forum as a client or partner. Ever. Other than that, anonymous LarryS, you're spot on. Congrats.Originally Posted by LarryS
I'm not even on WoV. Tough to grow corn when you skip the best fields.
I'll have to look it up, but I went at least 2000 posts, maybe more, without mentioning what I do here. Maybe you could look it up for me. I'm 60 years old -- my brand has about a 10-year lifespan, presumably, so I'd best get to work on it.
I do applaud your assertiveness. Now put an actual name to the moniker, and perhaps we can have a real conversation. Just a thought.
Thats ok..i dont need my temperature taken....try MrV
I suspect LarryS looked it up, but he's not willing to share.Originally Posted by LarryS
No posting at WoV by me. Maybe one or two posts at LVA Sports, maybe 15 years ago, and not mentioning anything. No posts regarding what I do here for, what, five years and 2000 posts? I'm recruiting hard. I must be using sockpuppets. Rob Singer is my favorite. When I'm not getting enough attention, I post as LarryS.
Rob Singer also spoke with Frank Kneeland about why Frank never played VP with his own money. Frank first made that revelation to me when his book was published and Frank had lunch with me and my son at Caesars. While talking it just slipped out that he said he never played with his own money. I wrote about it on Anthony Curts' website and Frank confirmed it there.
Rob wrote above "Frank had no job and simply didn't have the money to chase +EV games on his own."
Well, I got a different comment from Frank. Frank told me that +EV plays no longer existed in Vegas,and that was the reason he didn't play with his own money. As far as the slot and VP progressive jackpots his teams chssed? He said he wouldn't use his own money there either.
Sorry to tgrow a wet blanket on all your +EV dreams.
I wouldn't belive anything Rob said, even if his toung came notarized(shout out to Judge Judy)
I understand that for the most part Frankie didn't use His own Money. But to say he NEVER used any of his own money on anything seems a bit overstated. Perhaps, he made a deal where he wasn't allowed to, but I think it's unlikely Tom would craft a deal so restrictive like that.
You didn't need much money to play Flush Attack(I know he played that often at one time) I started with $300, no car and barley paying my bills. and with that $300 I never looked back.
It was 133% advantage And most of the payback was on bonus flushes, so It was practically impossible to lose after 3 or 4 days of playing. A really bad day would be losing $200. So, ya, I think paying that for someone else would be a very poor decision, unless that was part of the deal for being given the information and taught how to do it.
Frankie started even before I did. I would be flabbergasted if he didn't even have at least $500 by then.
I played next to and ccompeted against Fankie, his Mom(FYI She was a very intelligent colorful person) and their team member's many times on various promotions, progressives and machine's. I have done some stuff with Tom who was the owner/investor of the team (Very nice guy, very successful, and very intelligent)
The fact that Frankie said there's was no more good +EV plays when he left is absolutely obserd and complete total BS.
Im fairly certain the team was still going after he left. I don't know the exact year he left, but I ran into him about 1998 at Albertsons. He was telling me he was now doing photography and something about it leading to hot chicks. I think he just said that because I was with some hottie. She was creeped out. Frankie is no doubt very intelligent and very talented, he's a bit of an odd duck, but that's okay.
Anyways, the fact that Frankie rarely used his own money doesn't mean shit.It just means thats the deal he made when he first started due to fear of the unknown . If he had the opportunity to invest or go out on his on his own, I would say he just didn't have it in him to do so. There may have been a fear that he couldnt adapt and find new opportunities on his own. IMO He missed a good opportunity.
Why you think it was some big secret that you learned is beyond me. Everyone knew he was WORKING for someone else and was getting paied a salary.... Duh!
Many team members only get a salary because they don't invest. That's how people usually run there buisssnes. They pay people to work for them so they can get the lion share of the profits.
So, whatever lesson you think you learned is empty, AND it has no bearing on what's possible or how much one can or can't make as an advantage player.
It takes more than just knowing math, playing fast and having a bankroll. You could be the smartest mathmatition ever and have a huge bankroll, but that wont make you a smart or successful AP. You need to be creative, think outside the box, you need to be able to adapt, you need to network, you need to be motivated, you need to be able to scout and find new opportunities that are not obviously, things you are not acustom to.
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