The WoV Thread

[MisterV]

I suspect that ZK is bipolar.

I see massive mood swings (mania, depression), disturbed thought processes, unfounded beliefs of an ongoing conspiracy, etc.

Yes, he seems reasonably intelligent, but most ineffective at the biggest game of all, LIFE.

[redietz]

Glad there's an addition to the list of those who can evaluate life's winners and losers. I now count four -- Allah, Thanos, Mr. V, and the Disney corporation.

[MisterV]

I deal with psychologists and review psychological studies quite frequently.

While not a true expert I am pretty confident of my opinion based on experience.

What do YOU think is wrong with him?

Clearly his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor.

[Keystone]

I deal with psychologists and review psychological studies quite frequently.

While not a true expert I am pretty confident of my opinion based on experience.

What do YOU think is wrong with him?

Clearly his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor.

STFU you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk

[monet]

I deal with psychologists and review psychological studies quite frequently.

While not a true expert I am pretty confident of my opinion based on experience.

What do YOU think is wrong with him?

Clearly his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor.

STFU you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk

That's right... Mrs. V... STFU you ass kissing, GAY chameleon punk!!!

[kewlJ]

That's right... Mrs. V... STFU you ass kissing, GAY chameleon punk!!!

Gay? Bullshit! We don't accept him. We won't have him. Even if it is proven MrV sucks sick with the best of us (which seems quite possible with his drama queen behavior), we STILL reject him. You breeders are stuck with him.

[AxelWolf]

He was wearing a flying/flaming dice shirt. That's kinda gay.... I think?

[LarryS]

So, I just caught up a bit reading WoV. A couple thoughts.

It just is not a good sign that Nathan's thread, Nathan's little corner of WoV is the most popular thread on the forum for quite a while now. No offense to Nathan/Karen/Tasha, but that really shows just how far WoV has fallen from what it was and was supposed to be.

Kudos for Mike for reaching out to ZenKing. Mike told Zenking to call him and they would have lunch. Zenking has some issues, both involving AP - blackjack card counting involving his seemingly inability to deal with common variance, as well, as his inability to handle any kind of loss. And he has some issues accepting just how some things in life, like credit work.

In his late 20's he should have figured some of these things out, but he hasn't. And he is out on his own for the first time and far away from home. I think he could really benefit from a mentor situation, both regarding AP and other areas. I had hoped that Axel or one of the other guys were going to fulfill some of that role, but things fizzled after a meetup or two.

I have considered taking on that responsibility myself several times over the last year, but each time I have considered it, I have really had a full plate with some of my own personal situations and am still not in a place where I can take that on. So I understand that Axel and the others may also just not be in a position to offer much. I just was hoping someone would. Maybe Mike's meetup will lead to some of that mentoring assistance, that Zenking so desperately needs. I'd like to see Zenking figure some things out and have some success. He really is very passionate about BJ AP.

I don't think ZK is as Crazy and he lets on. I think the guy is super smart and capable of learning and easily applying any AP tactics he wanted to. If I had to guess I would think he is too focused on the roadblocks and negative stuff. I think his brain is working overtime and he can't just chill out.

I have talked to ZK quite a few times. Most of the time he just didn't seem all that eager to learn new things. It's like... yes, no, kinda maybe, I'm starting a business, I'm going to do this or that.

I even showed him some various bonus slots he could supplement his income with while going to and from Blackjack. He never really followed up, there's lots of free information out there about this stuff as well, he's smart enough to research it.

No one is going to spoon feed anyone this stuff. He has been invited to and came to various dinners, celebrations Superbowl party, poker and even my wedding. He's met many of the people I work with on a number of occasions. If he wanted to get into some other stuff he would be calling regularly asking if we have anything and making a significant effort.

Also, he would stop with all the BS posts. People don't want to risk their plays and money with someone who acts crazy. There are all kinds of ways plays can get fucked up no one wants to add unknown crazy shit.

For the most part, if you want to work with others while learning new AP stuff, you have to prove your self slowly in this business. I'm not just going to thrust him on others or push him to learn.

No, I haven't given up on him, and when he is ready, I am open to the idea as long as others I work with are comfortable with the situation. If something interesting comes up and I think everyone can benefit, I will give him a ring. And he is always welcome to hang out with me/us and just to chill or whatever.

He has always been respectful and mostly a cool guy in person.

He knows my number and he knows how to use PM's.

In every trade and profession there are very smart people who have no business being in that trade or profession
There are doctors with great book knowledge that may not have common sense, no bedside manner, no ability to have an "edit button" as they speak to people. And no other doctor wants to be associated with him.her.

So what if ZK has a bunch of knowledge. People say he doesnt have the temperament. And thats important in a trade that requires people handle periods of losses. He handles losses poorly often with a tinge of paranoia. Heck if he thinks the casinos are conspiring against him, he would definately think if he was in a team..that others were doing the same. Its in his DNA...that how he thinks. Thats his zebra stripes.....they aint changin.
Add to that he is super naive and doesnt have an "edit button" on his brain as he posts and doesnt realize how much of a nut he appears to be.
Instead of encouraging this type of person to continue to be an AP........why not do him a big favor and explain that his knowledge is only 50 percent or less of what is needed in the long term.

KJ talks about he himself not having great detailed math knowledge, but he has a method that he sticks too and has figured out a way to make it work. I believe that he does. However he seems to have the temperament at the tables and when he goes home at night to handle the ups and downs. He may whine like a baby on who gets to post on websites......but as far as his trade he doesnt whine at all. He doesnt seem paranoid of the casinos, he doesnt act like a naive kid

ZK seems to lack the basics needed to succeed at AP. Thats not my opinion. I gleen that from KJ and Axel talking about the negatives of ZK as if those negatives will some how dissolve away.

If it were the opposite, I would say...yeah he could use help. If he had the temperament, the savvyness , the maturity, and the foundation of a good knowledgeable mind........then its possible to fill in the missing piece.

But if he is a mental genius on the topic....but is a ticking timebomb in all other aspects........I dont see what a lunch or a few phone calls can do to help the guy. I think people would do him a big favor if they just told him he isnt cut out for it as he is now. Some things you just cant change

[MaxPen]

ZenKing is not going to listen to anyone. If anyone tries to help him he is skeptical of their motives. That right there tells me all I need to know. Let him figure shit out on his own. He will tell you that he knows it all anyway. Maybe he does. WTF do I know. He does seem to be a decent person though overall. I wish him success.

[LarryS]

ZenKing is not going to listen to anyone. If anyone tries to help him he is skeptical of their motives. That right there tells me all I need to know. Let him figure shit out on his own. He will tell you that he knows it all anyway. Maybe he does. WTF do I know. He does seem to be a decent person though overall. I wish him success.

trying to put a square peg in a round hole is doing him no favors

he needs to find a square hole

[monet]

ZenKing is not going to listen to anyone. If anyone tries to help him he is skeptical of their motives. That right there tells me all I need to know. Let him figure shit out on his own. He will tell you that he knows it all anyway. Maybe he does. WTF do I know. He does seem to be a decent person though overall. I wish him success.

ZenKing is just one of those people who like to complain. Plenty of that on these forums. This is a guy who wears a Hustler T Shirt and tries to preach that he is an honest do gooder. He isn't doing that bad when compared to others that are trying to do what he is doing. He is far ahead of them but he takes it all too personal and thinks that he is supposed to be treated like the rest of the Sheep. It doesn't matter he always has a fail safe to run back to his mom and dad or family. I seen many more idiots run up huge scores. In the late 90s we had plenty of 20 year olds running around this town with million dollar bankrolls. Many of them end up going broke in a few years in this town or at the poker table... nature of the beast.

ZenKing just wants to do it his way but likes to cry on these boards about it. I wish MaxPen would explain his situation better actually. His story is this from my understanding... He makes 100k per year working a real job and makes 100k per year working AP part time. I am from a different era and lifestyle... nobody that is an AP or Hustler in my world works a job. They are either well to do from AP or they are broke chasing the next play. The ones with jobs, full time or part time are worker bees. Even if they make big money per year they are still worker bees. I dunno I guess it is a brave new world because on these sites all I see is APs claiming to work part time in the Casino World and they have 100 thousand dollar a year jobs. Seems like Fantasy to me compared to the real world.

In the real world when I have met these smart guys or gals they are just Fucked Up Hustlers practically begging me to get them involved in some play that I can bankroll them at or put them to work. Internet World is not the Real World. Most of the internet people are messed up like the rest of us either drunks, gay, wife beaters, or whatever. All you see on the news is the next guy who raped or killed someone or who finally got caught stealing but on these forums they preach they are the honest guys... fucking joke.

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WoV BanHammer

Since they got rid of Mission. Yes they got rid of Mission... you don't see him since his resignation. Now Once Dear and BBB are taking over the site banning whom they want at will. The Wizard has his secret talks banning IBYA's now. After that Mr Bo Resigns and even ZCore13 seems upset over the whole mess. I don't like Zcore13 but I have to respect him calling out the Mods and the Wizard. That site will be down to BBB, OD, Mike, Face, RS and a few others. Small, Tight Nit group of thieves.

[mickeycrimm]

I deal with psychologists and review psychological studies quite frequently.

While not a true expert I am pretty confident of my opinion based on experience.

What do YOU think is wrong with him?

Clearly his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor.

STFU you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk

[MisterV]

Flooding.

[kewlJ]

Interesting development over at Wizard's house (WoV) today. Late this afternoon, while I was still out and about, working hard, or hardly working....not sure which, I received an email from one of the guys I network with telling me Bojack had resigned from WoV. I assumed I was being notified because it had something to do with me. You know....everything is me, me, me.

Well I couldn't even find it at first, but when I did, it didn't have anything to do with me.....how disappointing. I am not really sure what Bojack's beef was. It appears to be in support of IBYA. Perhaps a teammate or connection that I was not aware of??

But anyway, Bojack, a guy who has played on, managed, and run one of the top BJ teams for the last 40 years, is one of 3 Blackjack Hall of Fame members that posted at WoV that I am aware of. The other 2 are Richard Munchkin, who has a total of 2 posts, none in the last 4 years, and I am not going to state the other BJHoF member's name or handle, but he also posts very sparingly and has not posted in more that 2 years. So Bojack's exit, leaves no Blackjack Hall of Fame members that I am aware of.....unless someone deep under cover?

Just further prove of something I have been saying for a while, and said yet again just yesterday. WoV gets further and further away from what it was and what it was supposed to be everyday. It really is now just a social forum, that has very little to do with advantage play or Gambling. Most of the discussion these days is whatever is on Nathan/Karen/Tasha's mind at the moment.

[MisterV]

I've never understood why there isn't a separate board at WoO.

Let the Math Boyz discuss AP, EV, and compare the size of their slide rules at that board; leave WoV for those primarily interested in Las Vegas itself as the primary subject matter.

[mickeycrimm]

Babs once chastised Bo as a newcommer trying to start trouble. I'll bet she and Shack have/had no clue Bo is a blackjack hall of fame member.

[kewlJ]

Babs once chastised Bo as a newcommer trying to start trouble. I'll bet she and Shack have/had no clue Bo is a blackjack hall of fame member.

Well if Mrbo was bojack from other forums (and a different handle at Qfit's forum) he is a BJ Hall of Fame member and a pretty big one at that...very successful BJ career. He was using the MIT call in approach long before the books and movie "21" came out, which made that approach too well known. Bojack didn't invent the "bigplayer" call in approach (neither did the MIT team). Credit for that generally goes to Al Francesco, a one time Ken Uston teammate, although other's probably have played similar team concepts.

Although I didn't (and still don't) appreciate some of the comments and back handed support Bojack has said about me in the last year, I have no reason to believe this member was not him. But I have had no personal communication with him in about 7 years...so who knows.

[kewlJ]

I've never understood why there isn't a separate board at WoO.

Let the Math Boyz discuss AP, EV, and compare the size of their slide rules at that board; leave WoV for those primarily interested in Las Vegas itself as the primary subject matter.

Why do you think that professional players, AP's (whether professional or parttime/recreational) should not be part of a discussion about Las Vegas and gambling? Do you know how many....I'll use the umbrella term....professional players....to include the poker players, reside either full-time or part-time in Las Vegas?

And I say the same for this site...why would professional players and advantage player, both professional and recreational, not be welcome on a site entitled "Vegas Casino Talk".

Not all discussion on these sites should be AP, but some is. And AP's are people too, with other interests that they care to discuss, including things in the city and community, Las Vegas in which many reside and many others visit regularly. It is bizarre to me that a group of "haters" goes out of their way to make such members feel uncomfortable.

[AxelWolf]

KJ.

In another post here on VCT, you said you didn't even think that was the real Bojack. Why now, do you suddenly think it is?

I have my doubts, but i really have no clue since I have never read anything he said on a different forum. We should be able to find out for sure. (Can you give me a link to a post of his on a different site he's been at for years)It's to my understanding others know the real Bojack? They would have to if he's been running BJ teams for a long time. I don't play BJ often and even I know many of the guys who run teams. Espessily. if they are somewhat well known and sucsessfull. Even the ones who never dare post on a forum.

He seems to frequent the type of places a green-low black chipper would here in Vegas.

I would be surprised if you guys haven't run into each other.

[MaxPen]

I wish MaxPen would explain his situation better actually. His story is this from my understanding... He makes 100k per year working a real job and makes 100k per year working AP part time. I am from a different era and lifestyle... nobody that is an AP or Hustler in my world works a job. They are either well to do from AP or they are broke chasing the next play. The ones with jobs, full time or part time are worker bees. Even if they make big money per year they are still worker bees. I dunno I guess it is a brave new world because on these sites all I see is APs claiming to work part time in the Casino World and they have 100 thousand dollar a year jobs. Seems like Fantasy to me compared to the real world.

In the real world when I have met these smart guys or gals they are just Fucked Up Hustlers practically begging me to get them involved in some play that I can bankroll them at or put them to work. Internet World is not the Real World. Most of the internet people are messed up like the rest of us either drunks, gay, wife beaters, or whatever.

Yeah, I pretty much don't know shit. However, that doesn't stop me from expressing myself from time to time. Those numbers were pretty accurate awhile back and now they are different. I am just a normal dude with a pretty normal past. Adult life started out in the military, went to school, got a job, started and ran a business on the a East Coast after growing up on the West Coast. Sold the business and decided to move back west about 4 years ago and landed a job managing a company out here after being in Vegas for a few days. Sort of just happened as I wasn't really looking for that as I planned to pursue advantage play. AP wise before what I do now was predominantly blackjack related. No one has really mentioned or talked about what my current angle is so I will leave that to the imagination. Maybe I'm just spitting out bullshit when I talk numbers.

I have always been a hard worker. What a waste of time and energy reflecting back on it. If only I knew then what I know now....lol. Fortunately now I run work and it doesn't run me. If I had a normal worker bee job I probably would have bailed a year or so ago. Yes, I am leaving soon to solely pursue a degenerate AP existence as I can no longer justify doing both. Maybe I will pick up some bad habits along the way. For now I have no vices as I quit smoking about a year ago.

I have met quite a few people from these forums and haven't had the same experiences you seem to have had. I have met many friends thru these forums.