The WoV Thread

[kewlJ]

Come to think of it...there have been about 3-4 members at WoV, since I left that have seemed to have the sole purpose of posting negatively about me (even after I was gone). SidtheSquid comes to mind and a couple others. And there is something all these guys had in common, references from the old blackjackinfo forum (same as Mrbo).

I guess that is proof that time doesn't heal all wounds. It's been going on 8 years since that forum closed.

Add on: I was just looking at Mrbo's posts and just noticed something very interesting. MrBo's very first post at WoV was in a thread entitled "contact KewlJ". The thread was started by this poster sidthesquid who I just mentioned. Sid was requesting from the WoV, if anyone had a picture or any personal information, address, phone number on me.

To his credit Wizard stepped in and shut down sidthesquid and when sid refused to cease and tried again, Wizard banned him. Interesting that just days later, in this very same thread, Mrbo emerges and just like sidthesquid, makes references to the old blackjackinfo and unflattering remarks about me.

So yeah, Axelwolf, maybe there is some doubt that Mrbo is bojack the BJHoF member.

[mickeycrimm]

It is bizarre to me that a group of "haters" goes out of their way to make such members feel uncomfortable.

This board has long had a much smaller membership than WoV, and that makes it easier for several members with a unified front to strongly influence and effect both the content and the atmosphere of the board.

Were there more posters, presumably vocal yays would shout down the nays, but that isn't happening now.

To me it's amazing that nearly 100% of the original posters who were here for years talking about Vegas and gambling are gone.

The reason we get non participating visitors here is that the old discussions about players clubs and comps and games and tipping still show up in search engines. But when the public gets here what do they see?

It's a shame.

They see Rob Singer then leave.

[Tasha]

Come to think of it...there have been about 3-4 members at WoV, since I left that have seemed to have the sole purpose of posting negatively about me (even after I was gone). SidtheSquid comes to mind and a couple others. And there is something all these guys had in common, references from the old blackjackinfo forum (same as Mrbo).

I guess that is proof that time doesn't heal all wounds. It's been going on 8 years since that forum closed.

Add on: I was just looking at Mrbo's posts and just noticed something very interesting. MrBo's very first post at WoV was in a thread entitled "contact KewlJ". The thread was started by this poster sidthesquid who I just mentioned. Sid was requesting from the WoV, if anyone had a picture or any personal information, address, phone number on me.

To his credit Wizard stepped in and shut down sidthesquid and when sid refused to cease and tried again, Wizard banned him. Interesting that just days later, in this very same thread, Mrbo emerges and just like sidthesquid, makes references to the old blackjackinfo and unflattering remarks about me.

So yeah, Axelwolf, maybe there is some doubt that Mrbo is bojack the BJHoF member.

The Wizard is a good guy. He protects even banned members and bans people asking for personal information on those banned people.

On a side note, are you implying that Sidthesquid and Mr. Bo are the same person? :/

[redietz]

It's my mission to find something positive about Rob. I'm currently struggling, but I didn't get where I am because I quit easily. I'll update everyone here when I come up with something.

I have many good things to say about Argentino:

1) When he wants to be, he's a good writer.
2) His style of play (wild martingale progressions, changing games, huge swing in denomination in short period of time, etc.) can lead to better comps and offers than someone playing the same overall coin-in, but with a different style.
3) He understands that casinos are populated by human management, which will (to tie it into what KJ said above) cheat when the opportunity arises. And it almost always does. So he provides an ongoing caveat.
4) He understands and preaches against the addiction and lure of slot clubs.
5) He preaches that casinos are "the enemy," and that hosts are vampires, more or less, posing as your friends.
6) He understands that much of what the big high-profile APs like Jean Scott or Dancer recommend can't be duplicated by new players without their statuses, and that these media APs have graduated from really winning to playing both sides as conditions have gotten tougher.
7) He's been around long enough (like me or Axel or mickey) to serve as an LV elder historian of sorts.

Having said all that, these facts makes it even more of a damn shame and more appalling that Argentino sticks with his:

1) Absolute voodoo system preaching.
2) His non-sequitur personal attacks on those who point out the voodoo. And these attacks are over-the-top nasty.
3) The fact that he simply makes things up and baldly lies about events and people because it serves his purposes and it's fun (for him).
4) He attracts people who respect and defend him, and these folks contribute to the voodoo and magnify the personal attacks when others point out the voodoo.


The negative list almost completely shatters whatever value he has because only a reader who has a serious degree of experience (like me or mickey or Axel and so on) can get an inkling of what's true and what's false. He glommed onto Mr. Mendelson early on and used that as a crutch to boost the faltering voodoo storyline. It's really a shame. He winds up mucking entire forums with his bitterness.

[MaxPen]

The above post could have been so much shorter and to the point. It is simple really.

Rob.Singer is a moron.

[kewlJ]

On a side note, are you implying that Sidthesquid and Mr. Bo are the same person? :/

I have no idea. I am just growing tired of the attacks and games. The internet is a really fucked up place.

The Wizard is a good guy.

On this we will just have to at least partially disagree. Mike may be a good guy, I really don't know, but Wizard is a lousy forum administrator. I don't know if Mike is a good guy or good person or not because I don't know him outside of internet dealings. The concept of his forum was good and at one time WoV was a good and useful forum. But it is very poorly run and managed now. Specifically after Wizard sold the site. It is over-moderated, by Mike and other Mods that follow his lead and for the most part it appears Mike has changed. WoV is now just a play thing to him. A social club that he rules. He apparently has some Donald Trump's 'thinks he is king' mentality going on.

And my personal experience with Wizard concerning WoV has been ridiculous. I was a member for 4 years, contributing positively nearly every day, mostly sharing my experiences as a professional blackjack player living in Vegas, but participated in some other threads as well. And then someone that wasn't even a member of WoV, showed up and demanded Mike shut me down because I had an opinion this outside person didn't like. This person while not a member of WoV, was a known member of the blackjack/AP community and used his influence to get Mike to ban me. Mike chose sides, and banned me when he had no business doing so.

Actually let me amend that. IF Wizard was going to choose sides, he should have defended the long-term positive contributing member of his site, over someone that was not a member and had no intention of contributing. And now 27 months later, it has more than been proven that this outsider just showed up to use his influence to shut down an opinion he didn't like. It has been proven that he used and manipulated Wizard, as this person has once again disappeared. Again he never had any intent of participating at WoV.

And this is where, Wizard the lousy administer and Mike the person come together. Mike has not be big enough, man enough, to acknowledge the truth and make amends. He is too concerned that it would make him look bad. So that is where I have to conclude that Mike, the person is not a good person, not an honest person, at least based on this incident and that is all I really have to go on with Mike. You can't be that dishonest and have an big ego where you care more about your reputation, than doing what is right. That just is not a "good person" in my book.

[mickeycrimm]

There are a couple of other things about WoV. Calling the suspension list the "Wall of Shame" is not a good public relations ploy. Then there was the Bovada software fiasco where Shackleford didn't do anything to make whole those that got shafted. And of course, the Wizard of Nothing fiasco where his site facilitated people getting burned. Mike did not give a rats ass about those that got burned and ended any discussion of it.

[MisterV]

And my personal experience with Wizard concerning WoV has been ridiculous. I was a member for 4 years, contributing positively nearly every day, mostly sharing my experiences as a professional blackjack player living in Vegas, but participated in some other threads as well. And then someone that wasn't even a member of WoV, showed up and demanded Mike shut me down because I had an opinion this outside person didn't like. This person while not a member of WoV, was a known member of the blackjack/AP community and used his influence to get Mike to ban me. Mike chose sides, and banned me when he had no business doing so.

Bullshit, KJ, that is not how it went.

You and QFIT were both suspended for violating a truce, him for 3 days, you for one week.

While you were suspended and / or before you made any more posts at WoV you had one of your little hissy-fits / meltdowns and started posting smack about the wiz on another board: THAT is what got you nuked, not because QFIT "used his influence" the get you banned.

It was your inability to act correctly which led to your undoing, not QFIT's machinations; you were on a one week suspension and welcome to return at the end, except you had to fuck yourself over by posting inappropriate, foolish comments about the wiz on another board.

As the wiz posted on 3-14-16:

"It is with my much regret that I have to nuke kewlj. Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums in our suspensions here. However, he has been spreading private and untrue information on other forums based on events here."

Quit playing the victim card!

You've only yourself to blame.

[kewlJ]

And my personal experience with Wizard concerning WoV has been ridiculous. I was a member for 4 years, contributing positively nearly every day, mostly sharing my experiences as a professional blackjack player living in Vegas, but participated in some other threads as well. And then someone that wasn't even a member of WoV, showed up and demanded Mike shut me down because I had an opinion this outside person didn't like. This person while not a member of WoV, was a known member of the blackjack/AP community and used his influence to get Mike to ban me. Mike chose sides, and banned me when he had no business doing so.

Bullshit, KJ, that is not how it went.

You and QFIT were both suspended for violating a truce, him for 3 days, you for one week.

While you were suspended and / or before you made any more posts at WoV you had one of your little hissy-fits / meltdowns and started posting smack about the wiz on another board: THAT is what got you nuked, not because QFIT "used his influence" the get you banned.

It was your inability to act correctly which led to your undoing, not QFIT's machinations; you were on a one week suspension and welcome to return at the end, except you had to fuck yourself over by posting inappropriate, foolish comments about the wiz on another board.

As the wiz posted on 3-14-16:

"It is with my much regret that I have to nuke kewlj. Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums in our suspensions here. However, he has been spreading private and untrue information on other forums based on events here."

Quit playing the victim card!

You've only yourself to blame.

MrV, read what you just wrote...in particular the statement made by Mike of my banning. "while normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums".....BUT THEN HE BANNED ME FOR SOMETHING SAID ON ANOTHER FORUM! He changed his own rule, made up a reason to ban me. And why because QFIT asked him to.....demanded him to. I have posted Mike's private messages to me, where he states "QFIT contacted him many times demanding that he take action". At one point Mike says, "he felt he HAD to do something because he considered QFIT a friend".

I simply am not going to ,let you guys that support Mike, distort what occurred.

And secondly, that second part of Mike's announcement of my banning is also wrong. Mike thinks I violated his privacy by posting something he told me (at this other forum that WoV normally doesn't consider), but I did no such thing. The information I posted was told to me by two other moderators, BBB and a second one I have not yet revealed, as it isn't my intent to get anyone in trouble. It just so happens that information was very similar to what Mike had told me. It was similar because it was the truth.

To be specific here is what I am talking about. Mike told me QFIT contacted him numerous times demanding that he take action. BBB and another mod both told me QFIT contacted Mike 19 times within 24 hours demanding that he ban me. So I posted that QFIT had contacted mike 19 times demanding that he ban me.

Do you see what I am saying. I didn't post "numerous times" or use the words "take action", which is what Mike told me. I posted "19 times in 24 hours" and used the words "ban me" which is what BBB and another mod told me. It just so happens what I posted is similar....why?....because it is basically the truth.

What it really boils down to is Mike told me one thing (confirmed by BBB and a second moderator) and Mike told the WOV membership something different, because he just wasn't man enough to stand up to QFIT who was bullying him. And when I publicly posted that Mike was being dishonest and telling two different stories (cover-up), he became enraged with me. All because he wasn't man enough to do what he should have done, told QFIT to mind his own business (and forum).

[MisterV]

Perhaps, but why did you unload on him on another forum?

Didn't you think he'd learn of it, and possibly react?

Yes, QFIT set you up, he played you like a fiddle; I get that.

But even you must concede that your comments were inappropriate, and that consequences of some sort would not be unexpected.

I believe QFIT probably did lobby the wiz to nuke you, but YOU GAVE HIM THE AMMUNITION.

Really, you should have kept your mouth shut while suspended, and then pursued the issue IN MEASURED WORDS upon your reinstatement.

A lousy deal for all concerned (except QFIT, of course: a masterful play by him to smite a detractor).

[kewlJ]

You've only yourself to blame.

This is actually the only thing you said that is partially true, MrV. I do blame myself for some immature and childish behavior in the aftermath, mostly at the gambingforums forum. I sunk to name calling out of frustration, because Mike was saying one thing in private and another publicly.

Do you know one time after my banning when we were still communicating, he said he couldn't let me back, because there would be consequences from QFIT.

Another time, he told me he had to take action because QFIT was angry and had basically stopped talking to him.

And finally, there was a time (in the aftermath) that Mike and I were close to an agreement about me returning. And then at the end, he threw in the bombshell, that he would have to check with QFIT to see if it was alright. That told me right there who was in charge, who was running the show. Mike was being bullied and afraid of QFIT. And apparently still is.

[kewlJ]

Perhaps, but why did you unload on him on another forum?

Didn't you think he'd learn of it, and possibly react?

Yeah, I KNEW he would learn of it. I KNEW he was reading it. I know he knows he handled it wrong because he told me so in private. So I was trying to shame him into fixing what he himself knew and privately said was wrong. And that is where I continue to have a problem with Tasha's statement that he is a good man. A good man doesn't say yeah, I know I was wrong, but am not going to make amends because I am afraid it will damage my reputation. That is a coward.

And BTW, doing the right thing and acting fairly, and what YOU know is fairly would not have damaged his reputation, it would have strengthened it. People KNOW he was put in a bad position by QFIT.

[redietz]

Perhaps, but why did you unload on him on another forum?

Didn't you think he'd learn of it, and possibly react?

Yes, QFIT set you up, he played you like a fiddle; I get that.

But even you must concede that your comments were inappropriate, and that consequences of some sort would not be unexpected.

I believe QFIT probably did lobby the wiz to nuke you, but YOU GAVE HIM THE AMMUNITION.

Really, you should have kept your mouth shut while suspended, and then pursued the issue IN MEASURED WORDS upon your reinstatement.

A lousy deal for all concerned (except QFIT, of course: a masterful play by him to smite a detractor).

I think kewlJ gave Shackleford exactly what he deserved in terms of telling him he'd haunt him with real life consequences. You can't spend an entire life going around playing political games so you can eke out something marginally more favorable while tamping down your actual personality and responses. You're trading subordination to maneuver an outcome that may or may not be better for you. Screw that. You have 70-some years. How many hours of that do you really want to spend spineless?

Subordination has actual physical and biological costs, only Allah, Thanos, and Disney don't teach that. KJ, if anything, should have hit Shackleford harder.

[kewlJ]

Perhaps, but why did you unload on him on another forum?

Didn't you think he'd learn of it, and possibly react?

You know it's funny. These are two distinct issues. The banning and events that lead to the banning & what I call the aftermath (mostly at gambingforums).

Some people (like RS) say, I don't deserve to be back at WoV because of the aftermath, even though they know the banning was wrong....and now has more or less been proven just what Qfit's intent was by the fact that he has once again disappeared.

So here's what that is like. A guy is convicted of murder and goes to prison. Years later new evidence determines his complete innocence. And they say: "well he didn't behave well while he was in prison, so we are not going to let him out". He should have NEVER been in prison to begin with.

[monet]

STFU V Bitch, you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk!

[kewlJ]

STFU V Bitch, you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk!

MrV is just playing his usual games. He is just trying to "bait" me. And he is sitting back laughing because he thinks he has, from my response.

But he hasn't. I knew exactly what he was doing. I chose to respond. Actually I HAVE to respond and periodically set the record straight. That is a promise (not threat as some suggest) that I made to Michael. And I respect him enough to keep that promise to him.

[Keystone]

STFU V Bitch, you ass kissing, female ,chameleon punk!

LOL...you forgot overweight, pleasures himself to pot stirring, little punk

[MisterV]

No KJ, I am not trying to "bait" you; I am trying to explain to Tasha how it went down.

FWIW I think it would be great if you were reinstated at WoV; you contributed good content, and many people there like(d) you.

Maybe the wiz owed QFIT a favor; maybe QFIT had something on the wiz: I don't know, but yeah, the wiz favored QFIT over you.

He had a "no-win" choice to make, with neither one being satisfactory.

But good lord man, it's been two years already!

How time flies when you're in exile.

[AxelWolf]

I'm having GF flashbacks.

[kewlJ]

Maybe the wiz owed QFIT a favor; maybe QFIT had something on the wiz: I don't know, but yeah, the wiz favored QFIT over you.

Interesting you say this. I am going to post a quote from a private message from Wizard on the same day that he banned me (about 4 hours prior).

"I will be sorry to see you go. If I had the choice between you and Norm as members, I would take you any day."

I have posted the screen shot before on another site, so you know I have proof. I have received criticism for posting screenshots, so I will just post the quote.

The next paragraph you may also find interesting.

"In my defense, I have considered Norm a friend for years before his first post. He has helped me out several times when I needed some difficult blackjack math confirmed and he has never asked for anything in return. So, when he, after all the favors he has done for me, asked for one in return, I had a hard time saying "no.""

Remember this is 4 hours before he banned me.