Bill is just another run of the mill internet troll trying to stir up shit.Originally Posted by kewlJ
Bill is just another run of the mill internet troll trying to stir up shit.Originally Posted by kewlJ
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Honor amongst thieves? The thing I like about working casinos instead of people is I don't have to run my mouth. I just go in and do the job. Don't have to talk anyone into jackshit.Originally Posted by monetThis is not possible. AP's like Axel, RS, Maxpen... etc. are the most ethical people in the AP world. These guys are so good they not only beat the Casino daily and years on end finding 10% winners and better but they do it in an honest, legal, legitimate manner. Of course it is ok to Hustle the Casino but to Hustle a person is some big no no. I just don't understand it. It is ok to Hustle but it is not ok to Hustle?? Now these guys will actually gamble against each other for money so its ok to hustle each other but not some poor dumb schmuck who doesn't know any better. His money is off limits. This is like saying it is ok to Rob a bank but not your neighbors house. It make no sense. Hustling is hustling and stealing is stealing.Originally Posted by kewlJ
HELLO AXELWOLF? I am still waiting on a response? If you are going to throw around bullshit accusations, I would like to get a little money in on it. I realize I have the advantage since I already KNOW the outcome....for me it's like betting a game that I have already watched.
Axel, you become more of a troll everyday, I guess from spending to much time at "troll central". I see some of EvenBob rubbing off on you. You take pleasure in insulting and accusing right up to, but just shy of the line. What's the saying...."when in Rome....". or in this case "when in 3rd grade (WoV), you act like a third grader".
You might be a strong and knowledgeable AP, but as a person, you are pretty small. (That's not a height joke...although....)
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I am pretty sure some thief made up that saying so that he could steal from the other thief.Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Another saying is... you don't steal from a thief!
This is not because of honor. It is more so for insurance or safety purposes. You start stealing from criminals and it is a good way to end up dead.
What I find funny about the "new gamblers" in Vegas and around the world... these guys that think they are above others is that it wasn't long ago that people were killing each other for quarters. These cutthroats weren't sitting in air conditioned Casinos waiting for the next progressive. They were actually out there raping and killing and many of them were in gangs holed up because they were outlaws and/or wanted. It wasn't very long ago people were ending up in the desert on a daily basis in Vegas. You guys crack me up with this morality and honest gambler, AP BS lol!
Last edited by monet; 02-18-2018 at 10:04 AM.
At least give me the benefit of the doubt until I reply.Originally Posted by mickeycrimmBill is just another run of the mill internet troll trying to stir up shit.Originally Posted by kewlJ
Shackleford wrote of being very happy to be rid of doing crummy or dismal piece-meal work for casinos in Las Vegas. At any rate, analyses of baby names and slot machines isn't what accredited actuaries sign up for. Successful actuaries navigate and create investments math, reform income-tax legislation, and help to run corporations.
Still waiting to hear how renowned is Shackleford, or how successful an AP.
78255585899=317*13723*17989=(310+7)*[(13730-7)*(100*100+7979+10)]-->LOVE avatar@137_371_179_791, or 137_371_17[3^2]_7[3^2]1, 1=V-->Ace, low. 78255585899-->99858555287=(99858555288-1)=[-1+(72*2227)*(722777-100000)]={-1+(72*2227)*[(2000+700777+20000)-100000]}-->1_722_227_277_772_1. 7×8×2×5×5×5×8×5×8×9×9=362880000=(1000000000-6√97020000-100000)-->169_721. (7/8×2/5×5/5×8/5×8/9×9)={[(-.1+.9)]^2×(6+1)}-->1961=√4*2.24; (1/7×8/2×5/5×5/8×5/8×9/9)={1/[7×(-.2+1)^2]}-->1721=[(10*10/4)/(√4+110)].
I don't know, nor have met any of these people, so I won't comment on how honest or ethical they are. You have met them or some, once or twice. Does that mean you really know them to make these comments?Originally Posted by monet
You have shared that you are not the most honest or ethical person in the world. Good for you for being honest. Don't assume that everyone that pursues AP has your "anything goes standards".
And just to be clear, I am not suggesting anything about Axel as a person. I don't know him. But his internet behavior of which we all see plenty of is becoming more and more trollish. And that is really not opinion. That is fact. Just read him on several sites.
This is a rather bizarre opinion.Originally Posted by Bill YungBecause someone has a job or career that they don't like or isn't what they thought does not mean they failed at it. I'll bet the waitress that served me earlier this morning didn't much care for her job and hopes to pursue something else at some point. That doesn't make her a failed waitress....she was actually a pretty good waitress.
Most people that take a government job do so for one reason...security. Deciding to pursue something else, simply does not make them a failure.
Now let's take a look at Eliot. This is someone who desperately wanted to make a living as an AP and couldn't do so. THAT is the definition of a failure.Tim Tebow as a professional athlete would be the definition of a failure. Shackleford leaving a government job to pursue something else simply is not the definition of a failure.
(geez..I hate it when I HAVE to defend Mike Shackleford).
I am not talking about them personally or what they do in their personal lives. I am talking about gaming inside the Casino. These players like yourself will say something like if I do this it is ok. It isn't against the rules and gaming says it's legal. Even though the Casino takes a different stance on the subject and deep down we all know it is dishonest. Sure you might hear some of these guys claim it is a certain shade of grey which is BS. You either play the game straight or you play it crooked. No middle ground. You can't say I am only cheating a little bit but that guy over there is the real criminal... he is doing this and that. It's not my fault my neighbors are showing me their cards or the dealer is showing me his hand or he over payed me on my large bets. A person doesn't get to say my clothes only have a spot of mud on them and that guy is swimming in the mud puddle so I am better than he is.
Honestly and I truly mean this. You guys are gonna do and believe what it is that you do. I have curtains to hang up... perhaps in the future I'll come back and continue on about how unethical we all are in this world and even though you all don't want to admit or believe it... we know it's the truth.
Whatever you have to tell yourself. I’m not sure if you’re trying to convince us or yourself that there’s no distinction between legal and illegal and people are incapable of choosing to make and follow that distinction I’
Last edited by mcap; 02-18-2018 at 11:20 AM.
I have seen a lot of guys showing people what to look for on various machines and taking them on scouting trips thru the casino. They will have them play into favorable setups and chop the profits. They will not share in any losses. Overall it dilutes the value of any of that knowledge and causes the opportunities to disappear. Look at all the disappearing Alladins and Zombies.Originally Posted by monetHonestly I don't know. I know something is going on. Not only getting tourists to play Ultimate X but I have seen players getting people to play progressive reels and move them around building up certain jackpots. It is pretty amazing how many times I see the same grift. They tell the mark that this machine needs so many spins... ok now move over here... do this and now do that. I am guessing they use forums and social media to trap these fish. You make it sound like it isn't worth doing or that it isn't going on but it seems to me that it is happening daily and these guys are making bank doing it. I am sure they are even charging them a fee to show them around and maybe even asking for loans. Honestly if your going to do this sort of thing I don't see why you would just stop with some multipliers. It would seem to me that that is just a doorway and it opens up many other cons along the way. Show your mark a 10% gain and he will let you watch his kids over the weekend.Originally Posted by MaxPen
I'm not saying stuff doesn't happen. Maybe they are charging a fee. I doubt it though. Because these are usually the same people camped on a favorable situation soliciting someone to front money on the play for a piece. The strip is full of these guys. I'm not sure how they work it but you can find the same ones camped in the same areas day in and day out.
I happened to be walking by an Alladin machine cutting thru Harrah's one night right as a lady was rolling off. I slid into the seat and went to insert a ticket and a guy who was 3 machines over grabbed my hand as the ticket was accepted by the machine. I pushed his hand away and started banging out some hands. About 6 hands in 3 reels turn wild and I bang out a couple hundred. Guy tries to tell me I need to split action as these were his machines. Of course I told him to fuck off as I was cashing. He then went on a tirade about how he has friends and shit. I asked him where they were and walked off leaving him fuming.
I have yet to run across an UX creator or witness it in action though.
The Aussies have a name for a thief who steals from another thief: "Standover Man"Originally Posted by monet
Reports I'm getting out of Vegas is you work your ass off for maybe $200 a day vulturing. That's why I don't go there. I'm sure it's because Vegas is saturated with vultures. The problem I see with the zombies is the ploppies don't play them much. Not a very popular game. They were pulled out of one place I work but I think it was from lack of action by the public. I do pretty good on the Aladdin's. They get more action than the zombies. My biggest score was on the $3 bet level. I lit up 3 columns on one spin then lit a fourth column on the next spin for a $1200 score.Originally Posted by MaxPenI have seen a lot of guys showing people what to look for on various machines and taking them on scouting trips thru the casino. They will have them play into favorable setups and chop the profits. They will not share in any losses. Overall it dilutes the value of any of that knowledge and causes the opportunities to disappear. Look at all the disappearing Alladins and Zombies.Originally Posted by monetHonestly I don't know. I know something is going on. Not only getting tourists to play Ultimate X but I have seen players getting people to play progressive reels and move them around building up certain jackpots. It is pretty amazing how many times I see the same grift. They tell the mark that this machine needs so many spins... ok now move over here... do this and now do that. I am guessing they use forums and social media to trap these fish. You make it sound like it isn't worth doing or that it isn't going on but it seems to me that it is happening daily and these guys are making bank doing it. I am sure they are even charging them a fee to show them around and maybe even asking for loans. Honestly if your going to do this sort of thing I don't see why you would just stop with some multipliers. It would seem to me that that is just a doorway and it opens up many other cons along the way. Show your mark a 10% gain and he will let you watch his kids over the weekend.Originally Posted by MaxPen
I'm not saying stuff doesn't happen. Maybe they are charging a fee. I doubt it though. Because these are usually the same people camped on a favorable situation soliciting someone to front money on the play for a piece. The strip is full of these guys. I'm not sure how they work it but you can find the same ones camped in the same areas day in and day out.
I happened to be walking by an Alladin machine cutting thru Harrah's one night right as a lady was rolling off. I slid into the seat and went to insert a ticket and a guy who was 3 machines over grabbed my hand as the ticket was accepted by the machine. I pushed his hand away and started banging out some hands. About 6 hands in 3 reels turn wild and I bang out a couple hundred. Guy tries to tell me I need to split action as these were his machines. Of course I told him to fuck off as I was cashing. He then went on a tirade about how he has friends and shit. I asked him where they were and walked off leaving him fuming.
I have yet to run across an UX creator or witness it in action though.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
So I looked this up and found it an interesting read. Here are the quotes about The Standover Man...Originally Posted by tableplay
STANDOVER MAN
Thief who specializes in persuading other thieves to surrender their valuable items.
From the website of Mark Brandon "Chopper" Read:
"My apprenticeship in crime began in the 1970s. This had me robbing massage parlours and taking on contracts to maim and kill rivals. Once I had obtained a doctorate as a "standover man", robbing drug dealers and other criminals, who funnily enough couldn't report me to the police, became childs play. I once told a friend "why rob a straight guy of $20 when you can rob a drug dealer of $10,000 and he can't go running to the police?" After all both involved some work on my behalf, but the man in the street was less likely to give up his $20 as he had to work hard for it. For the drug-dealers it came easy, so why would they put up a fight. Although some of my victims chose to chew razor blades (at their own request of course), before they would hand over cash? And I am the psychopath!
Standover Man
Aussie slang for an extortionist who uses physical violence (or threats thereof) to extract payment on behalf of another party.
You might pay a standover man to get some money owed to you instead of going via the police. Perhaps you might order a few broken ribs or a kneecapping as an object lesson to go along with the payment.
Your really hung up on this illegal and legal BS. If I can swindle someone out of their land and money and it is legal to the letter of the law does that mean I am not stealing? Just because something is Legal doesn't mean that it gives the person a license to do whatever they want. Even if you have a license to Kill you are still a murderer no matter what you think.Originally Posted by mcap
Has anyone on this forum watched the movie... The House of Sand and Fog? That guy bought that house fair and square. You have to be pretty mature to understand what is going on in that movie. Definitely not your typical happy go lucky Hollywood Film. IMO Hollywood got that movie right which is refreshing because it is realistic. Of course they diluted it so if you can actually take time and read a book... well nobody here is going to read a book?!
How can I convince someone like you who has a "holier than thou" attitude in life. Your the type who points the finger at everyone for doing wrong and thinks to himself when I do the same thing it isn't wrong. Your type are the real evil bastards. Usually very strict and straight forward and everything looks clean on the outside. Although I can spot this type all the time, they are just wound up so tight. This is the type of person who has some dark secret skeletons in the closet and eventually things go south. I see this in all aspects of life but it is the most humorous when the straight arrows get caught doing the same thing they are busting people for. Awhile back they had some Governor cracking down on all the illegal whore houses and prostitutes and such. A few years later down the road he was busted for running his own ring of whore houses!! I guess he was eliminating the competition.
You do make me laugh though. I would bet everything I have to bet that nobody on these forums is squeaky clean. I am positive that you and the rest have some deep dark sick secret that nobody knows about. You just keep pointing your finger at me and my type like Jimmy Lee Swaggart did in his life. He really gave it to the sinners and even Jim Baker and Tammy Faye. Later he got caught and was thrown out. At that time he had 500k rolling in a day!! So he took a break and came back and decided to go Nondenominational. Not long after he came back to the pulpit and he got in trouble again with the hookers. When confronted by his administration he said he was taking another leave of absence and that God told him that he doesn't have to tell them or his congregation what he was doing. Of course now he is on TV with his Son begging for money every day. Interesting note he is cousins with the Killer who is Jerry Lee Lewis.
Last edited by monet; 02-18-2018 at 02:44 PM.
The issue is not whether we have "secrets;" the issue is whether we knowingly cheat and steal from casinos as part of our gambling repertoire.
You portray yourself as a skilled cheater / thief; have you ever been caught doing so, and if so what happened?
What, Me Worry?
It is my belief that this vocation attracts people who are not afraid of anything. It's an exceptionally rare trait from what I have observed throughout life. Most people are the "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" (astute Mike Tyson quote) type of folks.Originally Posted by monetSo I looked this up and found it an interesting read. Here are the quotes about The Standover Man...Originally Posted by tableplay
STANDOVER MAN
Thief who specializes in persuading other thieves to surrender their valuable items.
maybe they keep taking a punch in the face because like many boxers....thats all they know how to do. Maybe its not a noble status.
Maybe its necessity.
Monet, I am not holier than though and am not trying to say I am. You are essentially calling us liars, I can respond to that. I choose not to play anything I believe is not legal, but there’s things like BJ computers in the 80’s that were legal then, I would have been totally fine using them, but would not today. Now you can continue to say I’m a liar for saying I wouldn’t...that is fine. Grey area: edge sorting an example, no one thought that illegal 5 years ago. I don’t believe it is but wouldn’t do it today after the Ivey decision. I stay away from Semi AP, semi cheats hybrids who i know also cross the thin line by intentionally bending cards, or paying off dealers to give extra info intentionally.
It’s not because I’m holier than though, I just don’t want to get caught up in their shit when it goes down, and I really don’t need the extra money. But I am lying right?
If I portray myself as a skilled cheater or thief I think it is because this is on the internet and those who are reading what I say are exaggerating what is reality. I have all the advantages in the American Society. Tall, thin, Caucasian, an ability to blend in like the wallpaper since I'm very average looking and good at keeping a low profile. I suppose I have that look of someone who wouldn't do anything against the rules/laws. I also am good at listening and having empathy towards others and am able to hold a conversation on many topics. I have never cheated or stolen anything that brings large amounts of heat. I never stayed in a job long enough to really get caught and I have an ability to only steal what isn't noticeable meaning things that are considered two bit, not worth the trouble. No reason to go for large scores in my opinion that would draw heat or risk jail time. Years ago I would go into Albertsons and order chicken to go and they give you large paper bags. I'd shop around and load the bags up with batteries and razors and shop around loading the cart up. Usually I'd just park the cart and walk out with the two bags. Sometimes I'd walk the whole cart out. Never stopped once or any problems. Other times I'd go to the mall and walk out with large items if they were requested. I had restaurants ask me for mixers and other appliances. I had employees hold the door for me a few times... twice security helping me... go figure. I've said it before that shoplifting is the easiest crime for someone with my look and skin color. I guess I look like a cop or security. I've had employees at Dillard's show me so many rings or watches they had no idea how many I palmed.Originally Posted by MisterV
I have been caught on other things a couple of times but nothing could be done except them shaking their heads and telling me to leave. That wasn't shoplifting though, that was something else.
You can trust that it's a dirty world and if your involved in the system in anyway your getting dirty in one way or the other. That's why I don't look down on or feel superior to anyone in any walk of life, from the bum to the business man we're all filthy in the mud. However I don't like to associate with people who think they are better than others. I don't mind discussing it with them but when they get that holier than thou attitude it's time to hit the door. I've told the story before how I'm on the Cruise Ship with my best friend. He is one of these golden boy thinking types. So I find a nice duffle bag under the bed. I don't want it but he does. He takes and loads up some towels and soap. I rib him and tell him you're stealing!? I say we should turn that into security. I sounded serious but I was kidding him. He gets all high and mighty and says to me... your a thief, you like being a thief and your proud of being a thief! I am not a thief and don't ever call me a thief!! He has a very serious, stern tone and is clearly upset. Needless to say after 15 years of friendship we don't talk anymore. I can't be associated with hypocrites. You want to be a bad or good guy ok I can live with it but I kinda loathe someone who thinks they aren't just as sick as the next guy.
I had to go back and re-read this. I love the first sentence! Oh man, I get a really good laugh out of it. Hold your Head up High... Hustling the Casino!! That's rich man!!Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Of course I went back to re-read this as I continue on with remodeling the house and listening to movies like The Hustler and James Caan in Thief. I was thinking if you follow this logic many hustlers will be out of work. Just for starters anyone Hustling Pool, Billiards, Card Games, Backgammon or Chess are out of a living. To think that Hustling Casinos isn't Hustling People is ludicrous but if it helps you look in the mirror every morning and feel good about oneself I can understand that. Whatever works for all of you is fine. I just don't like hearing that this guy is scum but that guy isn't scum.
Let's not even get into all aspects of sports fixing, insider trading, fixing stock prices, kickbacks in price fixing... the list goes on and on. Not too many people to hold their head up high or look at the mirror after I get done with the never ending list! Of course mcap is the exception. You guys preach survival of the fittest and natural selection but don't get into explotation. Too Funny... as Maxpen said on WoV... he and I laugh at those who think this world system is set up to be a fair, level playground.
Last edited by monet; 02-19-2018 at 08:56 AM.
It's a fair playground all right. That's why the variable that correlates most highly with one's income is one's parents' income (that was sarcasm, Sheldon).Originally Posted by monetI had to go back and re-read this. I love the first sentence! Oh man, I get a really good laugh out of it. Hold your Head up High... Hustling the Casino!! That's rich man!!Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Of course I went back to re-read this as I continue on with remodeling the house and listening to movies like The Hustler and James Caan in Thief. I was thinking if you follow this logic many hustlers will be out of work. Just for starters anyone Hustling Pool, Billiards, Card Games, Backgammon or Chess are out of a living. To think that Hustling Casinos isn't Hustling People is ludicrous but if it helps you look in the mirror every morning and feel good about oneself I can understand that. Whatever works for all of you is fine. I just don't like hearing that this guy is scum but that guy isn't scum.
Let's not even get into insider trading, fixing stock prices, kickbacks in price fixing... the list goes on and on. Not too many people to hold their head up high or look at the mirror after I get done with the never ending list! Of course mcap is the exception. You guys preach survival of the fittest and natural selection but don't get into explotation. Too Funny... as Maxpen said on WoV... he and I laugh at those who think this world system is set up to be a fair, level playground.
There are many interesting ethical issues in sports gambling. I'll put together a list and throw it out there later in the week. For example, what does one think of "consensus services," which sign up for various services without stating what they will do, then sell the plays services provide under a single umbrella for a price? How do you feel about putting out "bandwagon" bets by a famous person (say, Billy Walters), who then hopes for an avalanche when he wants to play the other side?
Nothing "illegal" about either of those, eh? What did the Old Testament say again about lending money, while we're at it?
Could on man, after the last couple I KNOW you came here primarily to troll.
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