The WoV Thread

[monet]

What did the Old Testament say again about lending money, while we're at it?

Refresh my memory about what the Old Testament said about lending money? It wouldn't be hard for me to look it up but that dilutes the conversation. Of course the New Testament trumps the Old anyway since it is clear Jesus changed the rule saying to give to any man that asks of you lending without expecting anything in return. Freely give as your father in heaven freely gives. Something like that. Very difficult to implement in ones life but if you can get to that level your really starting to AP it up IMO!

This falls along the line of the parable about the farmer who decided to work very hard one year filling up his barn and silos hoarding more food than he could even eat. Of course he never got to use it because his life was required before he was able to over indulge. It's clear that stockpiling in this life is meaningless and in Vain because soon you will die and your possessions will be fought over by everyone involved. When my relatives died it got pretty ugly and I decided not to quibble over the property and money. I remember telling them to let it rot. I think my grandmothers executors got everything in the end. Pretty funny to me actually!

A similar discussion on WoV that I was involved in prompted someone with this quote... most people are decent until you mess with their rice bowl. They will turn into the type of person that would cut their grandmothers throat if they have to to defend that supply of food. I agree that most people are like this when pushed to extremes. In life you will find the rare breed that won't be subjected to this type of behavior but it's very rare indeed. I think about the scene in Schindler's List when the old lady spills som gruel into the mud and some random old guy is so hungry he falls face first into the mud lapping it up. Individuals think that could never happen to them but they are completely wrong because they haven't dealt with that type of pressure.

[monet]

Could on man, after the last couple I KNOW you came here primarily to troll.

So I went back and read your 40 posts and I did not find one that gave up any information on anything that is related to gambling. Perhaps maybe something you were talking about 800k of coin in per year vs. 500k per year. If your calling me a troll I think your completely wrong. If anyone is trolling it is clearly you. Most of your posts are either name calling or some other form of negative remarks directed towards individuals.

One thing is for sure. You and others might not agree with my way of thinking or my actions in life but I certainly have put up correct, decent and profitable information between this site and WoV. I have even given out my own personal plays on certain machines, that, for the most part, it would appear nobody has added to their daily grind. I have even posted numerous pictures of Jackpots and told everyone where these Jackpots are taken at. Not only that but if you search hard enough I tell people exactly what the starting point is on certain reel machines so that if your able to just hammer it to the jackpot you will never lose. What do they tell me? They say I don't have 40 hours to hammer things out like that or I am not able to lose 3 grand because I am too poor lol. If you don't have the bankroll to do these things than don't even get involved in gambling period but if you do have the time and money to invest it is very easy to just hammer away. I also have given up Mailer Information in PMs when asked and I have never asked anyone from the forums for anything and actually I would refuse any compensation, although I do wish some of these people would make more of an effort. That's who I am... Who the F are you?? I don't see you giving out any information like that. Not only that but I am very easy going when people Private Message me and I will accommodate them accordingly. The only exception is that Maxpen asked me why on Earth would I post a thread about Westgate and them cracking down on APs taking off FP. That is something personal and I really can't delete a thread nor do I want to delete that thread. Another problem was that Speedycrap wanted me to get him a room and have lunch with him to discuss APing. The problem was that for almost 2 years he never followed up to get to Vegas and I got banned from WoV and DT for four months and our communication broke down. Later I found out he only stayed in Vegas for two days so that is hardly being serious about AP in Vegas. I also realized that he plays dice for fun and that is hardly the AP world that I am involved in, I don't have the time to teach someone like that what to do because most likely they will be running over to the dice pit when I am not around. Truth be told I am the real Lone Wolf that ZenKing uses as his trademark. In 25 years I have basically done things on my own. I have never belonged to a team. I have only had one partner and for the most part we only chopped Royals. I am very independent so I have a problem with trust or a team setting. Recently someone asked me to bankroll them and I told them you have the wrong guy. I am not a Team Leader or Funds Manager. If you want to partner with me on something we put up the same money and time in on the machine. I would also have a problem doing a 12/12 rotation because how am I going to trust that individual so it has to be on something we can play at the same exact time like a progressive bank. I am not the Bank. I am not putting people to work. I am my own Boss. I take down my own Scores. You want to take down Scores you go find your own Scores and take them down.

Don't worry mcap... This troll here is going to start a thread very soon in the near future giving up winning plays and machines that give extra points and all kind of other goodies soon enough. I am sure many of the APs on this site will not be happy about it but I am tired of discussing things that aren't gambling related to a bunch of morons lol jk jk. That moron thing is from Happy Gilmore. You make me think of that movie after calling me a piece of Shit. ( "Piece of Monkey Shit") ( I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast... you eat pieces of shit for breakfast?? Noooo." ) That wasn't very nice, I never called you or anyone on these sites a derogatory name. I may have told the Wiz to GFY or Jump off a Cliff but I am sure these are things he has done in the past and will do again the future. He has a Youtube post of him actually jumping off a cliff that is titled jumping off a cliff and who hasn't had sex with themselves??

I like this site because even though you don't have anything to really contribute to the gambler or AP community it is nice that your allowed to call people names and tell them how you really feel and that is real world BS so I'm good with that. You couldn't really get away with this on WoV lol.

Also for the record... I am not an easy person to actually get a hold of in person but once I do agree to something I follow through. Case in point... recently in the last few weeks I helped a WoVer get a suite for 3 days with 500 comp for the stay and took them to a 1200 dollar dinner paying all expenses and tips. This Mother F'ing Troll / Piece of Shit does things like that!

[MisterV]

Don't worry mcap... This troll here is going to start a thread very soon in the near future giving up winning plays and machines that give extra points and all kind of other goodies soon enough. I am sure many of the APs on this site will not be happy about it but I am tired of discussing things that aren't gambling related to a bunch of morons lol jk jk.

Excellent.

Armed with proper knowledge, this recreational gambler may be able to make the leap from always playing like a moronic ploppy to making the occasional successful slot AP.

Love the old three reel slots, both mechanical and video, such as Double Diamond and the like, so any tips about them would be especially appreciated.

[monet]

Not sure if your messing with me Mr V? Either way no big deal. However, you know damn well on WoV I have posted primarily mechanical 3 Reel games mostly of a 7s variation. I was on a positive double diamond game located at the Main Street Station twice in the last few years when it gets up over 8k but what a grind. Definitely more difficult compared to machines at the Fremont. Currently they have a game that starts at 10k and the progressive is over 20k as we speak but you need a team of at least two but 3 people to run the 8/8/8 game would be better. The main problem is that machine takes many more hours to get to the Jackpot. They have less variant games that get to the required numbers all the time on an average of 2 per month. I may have found a winner at GVR but that's a 10 dollar two coin reel and I'm not sure enough to hammer it. Also Boulder has a reel starting at 48k that is over 100k but same problem. GN has a dollar reel at 2 coins a spin that is locked out at 160k and starts at 12.5k. When I keep asking them why the progressive doesnt move I keep getting the run around. That machine has been like that over 5 years now but it's a DD variation. Your DDs and 7s machines are drying up like all other machine plays in general in Vegas. I suspect I'll be back to live poker one day in the future on some team playing off the same bankroll but man what a grind that would be!? Hard to go from 5, 10 and 25 dollar machines back to 2/5 or something like that... good grief, I might just do something else like watching movies if machines get really bad.

Honestly though with Reels you need time and money. I know you have the money but you need months and months to keep on the games to turn positive. Coming to Vegas for a week to hammer progressive reels won't be worth it in my opinion. My style or information is for players who live here or are at least here for 6 month intervals.

This doesn't pertain to Mr V since I'm pretty sure he is set in life financially. This pertains to someone like ZenKing who wants to live in Vegas and AP for a living.

What type of BR do you need to get started? I like 40k so that you can play the dollar Full Pay VP downtown daily while you wait for the progressives to get high enough. 40k too much? No problem... in that case 8k will suffice. Now you play the quarter full pay games downtown while you wait for the progressives to climb and let the numbers get a little higher because this will help with the variance. Once you get to 30 or 40k you can play the higher denom VP and jump on the reel progressives at a lower number. After awhile your bankroll will grow and you'll get bored of the systematical grind. Try not to get complacent and start playing dice and things like that or it most likely will be lights out. Usually during the grind some promotions will pop up and your bankroll will grow higher. Keep expenses low and everything should work out fine. If you can I suggest getting involved in a serious relationship with a significant other because that is a very strong AP move IMO. However we all know marriage isn't something that is easy but IMO it is well worth it in the long run. If you have to cheat, make sure it's with hookers or massage girls who are only in it for the money. Don't go and fall in lust with your neighbors wife.

[MisterV]

I wasn't kidding about my question, thanks for the info.

As far as a significant other being a strong AP move, I agree: better to go through life with a partner who's got your back.

Then again, as a divorce lawyer I find myself humming "love lost, such a cost ..." (my apologies to Neil Young).

[LarryS]

good post monet.

like V, I am not going to be spending months at machines...even though I can in reno if I chose to.

But it was a nice general insight.

i will stick to hold-em and sports.....with an occasional slot.

but i will follow up with this question

where do APs get the info about the machines . For example MC has talked of some machines with mini jackpots that are set to hit before it reaches a certain potamount.
where would one find this info. I understand how one coud use simple math to caluculate the amount of money and spins needed to get the jackpot to the max point. And by playing for a few spins you can see what percent of the bet goes to the jackpot....but where do u get info on "this machine will pay thejackpot before x amount of dollars.

[Glenbaccarat9]

I have been lurking for awhile now. I really do not even care or want to post anymore. Not even all the homeless talk could bring me out even though I had decent counterpoints. However after reading all this talk about the Wizard of Odds (MS), it is difficult not to post something. After actually meeting up with some of his members and knowing other math guys and gamblers I start to get a clear picture. As I have said before most people who defend this Wiz have some sort of interest in the real world with him or on the net and this is of a financial nature not a nature of being his friend. They aren't buddy buddy with him because they enjoy spending time with him. Most people who do know him say that they can't be around him more than an hour or so. Perhaps it is the other way around, perhaps the Wiz is too busy to be around them for extended periods of time. I don't know the guy but I knew for years that I didn't like his style. This Wiz isn't original at all. He doesn't condone illegal or immoral behavior but he admits to taking a known Mobsters Handle and he sure does talk about prostitutes a lot and even tells people where to find the better monetary value with prostitutes!?

I agree with Bill Yung and others about the guy. Those who think his site actually helped APs overall are wrong. He actually hurts AP. This isn't to say some clever APs haven't cozied up to him and used him for personal gains. That is clearly true. A year or so ago this Wiz went on his own site moaning and groaning about how some AP hustled him out of a few grand and never returned his calls or texts. A clear sucker, this Wiz lending out money to obvious Hustlers. I also agree with Bill Yung that this Wiz isn't very impressive and he basically has found a niche in the gaming world working both sides of the fence.

KewlJ brings up very valid points. On the internet and especially on WoV they talk a good game about how honest and moral they are but when you meet these people in real life you find that most of them are as crooked or more so than myself. Trust me the AP, gambling, hustler world is not an honest one and you will be hard pressed to find anyone being genuine. They don't want to be your friends or go out and do other things that don't involve making money. As a matter of fact if they know you have dough they will either ask to work for you in some way or ask to borrow it. Rightfully so! This AP world is about hustling and every hustler knows that being able to hustle a fellow hustler is more rewarding because to hustle someone who is wise is more difficult to do. I don't partake in hustling the hustlers anymore because I don't enjoy it but I am very keen on seeing the angles.

Oh, you nean like the ap guy on here as well as on betselection whom posts all the elaborate beating the roulette material that hustled, scammed, borrowed, etc., the thousands of dollars. From the Chinese member with the promise to repay that seemingly forgot to??? Btw, the one i am referring to is in Oregon. A scuumbag. Oh ccorrection, an ap hustler!!!!!

[RS__]

I remember in high school, I basically had two groups of friends. It was similar in college, but not as much. Anyone, one group of friends was basically always trying to cheat, steal, lie, etc. to each other. There'd always be drama, people mad at each other, and overall just scheming people. Go figure. The other group was basically the exact opposite, where everyone was nice, would offer to help each other out, offer to pay for food and gas, and overall just pleasant and easy to hang out with.

I say this because, it seems like the same kinda thing is going on here. The APs I know aren't out to try to scam and hustle each other. We try to all get along and make as much money as we can and not do all kinds of weird fuckery. It seems like you and the APs you roll with (Monet) are more into trying to fuck each other over. Why the hell people do that, I have no idea. Alls I know is 10 people with $10k can make more money if they work together than 10 people with $10k playing individually. And 10 people with $10k each playing individually can make more money than if they were all fighting each other.


Personally, I don't want to be involved in something that's cheating, illegal, or that sort of thing. For me, it's a combination of morals/ethics as well as it's not worth the risk of getting caught and potentially going to court, jail, prison, etc... There are legal things that I do that are probably not morally/ethically "right", but whatever. I've worked in a casino and know they don't do what's morally/ethically right and many times are breaking the law.


Monet, with all your postings about (IMO this is how it seems) that you fuck people over at any chance you get, that's just a way of life for you, etc. etc.....my question is -- Why? Do you think people read that and are like, "Yeah, that's the kinda guy I want to network with, get to know, etc.!" ???

[monet]

I remember in high school, I basically had two groups of friends. It was similar in college, but not as much. Anyone, one group of friends was basically always trying to cheat, steal, lie, etc. to each other. There'd always be drama, people mad at each other, and overall just scheming people. Go figure. The other group was basically the exact opposite, where everyone was nice, would offer to help each other out, offer to pay for food and gas, and overall just pleasant and easy to hang out with.

I say this because, it seems like the same kinda thing is going on here. The APs I know aren't out to try to scam and hustle each other. We try to all get along and make as much money as we can and not do all kinds of weird fuckery. It seems like you and the APs you roll with (Monet) are more into trying to fuck each other over. Why the hell people do that, I have no idea. Alls I know is 10 people with $10k can make more money if they work together than 10 people with $10k playing individually. And 10 people with $10k each playing individually can make more money than if they were all fighting each other.


Personally, I don't want to be involved in something that's cheating, illegal, or that sort of thing. For me, it's a combination of morals/ethics as well as it's not worth the risk of getting caught and potentially going to court, jail, prison, etc... There are legal things that I do that are probably not morally/ethically "right", but whatever. I've worked in a casino and know they don't do what's morally/ethically right and many times are breaking the law.


Monet, with all your postings about (IMO this is how it seems) that you fuck people over at any chance you get, that's just a way of life for you, etc. etc.....my question is -- Why? Do you think people read that and are like, "Yeah, that's the kinda guy I want to network with, get to know, etc.!" ???

This is very simple. You don't know me personally. You and Siri have made an incorrect assumption about me based on my past and past mistakes that I have freely shared with the forum. Your younger and have different ideas and ways of thinking. You most likely have a higher education compared to myself and you do not understand what or why I post what I post about. You have lots of friends that are in the good or bad group. I have no friends, only a small family that I protect. You think you know me or know what I'm about but to me it's obvious you don't know Jack Squat and one day you will be living in a Van... Down by the River!

[redietz]

I remember in high school, I basically had two groups of friends. It was similar in college, but not as much. Anyone, one group of friends was basically always trying to cheat, steal, lie, etc. to each other. There'd always be drama, people mad at each other, and overall just scheming people. Go figure. The other group was basically the exact opposite, where everyone was nice, would offer to help each other out, offer to pay for food and gas, and overall just pleasant and easy to hang out with.

I say this because, it seems like the same kinda thing is going on here. The APs I know aren't out to try to scam and hustle each other. We try to all get along and make as much money as we can and not do all kinds of weird fuckery. It seems like you and the APs you roll with (Monet) are more into trying to fuck each other over. Why the hell people do that, I have no idea. Alls I know is 10 people with $10k can make more money if they work together than 10 people with $10k playing individually. And 10 people with $10k each playing individually can make more money than if they were all fighting each other.


Personally, I don't want to be involved in something that's cheating, illegal, or that sort of thing. For me, it's a combination of morals/ethics as well as it's not worth the risk of getting caught and potentially going to court, jail, prison, etc... There are legal things that I do that are probably not morally/ethically "right", but whatever. I've worked in a casino and know they don't do what's morally/ethically right and many times are breaking the law.


Monet, with all your postings about (IMO this is how it seems) that you fuck people over at any chance you get, that's just a way of life for you, etc. etc.....my question is -- Why? Do you think people read that and are like, "Yeah, that's the kinda guy I want to network with, get to know, etc.!" ???

This is very simple. You don't know me personally. You and Siri have made an incorrect assumption about me based on my past and past mistakes that I have freely shared with the forum. Your younger and have different ideas and ways of thinking. You most likely have a higher education compared to myself and you do not understand what or why I post what I post about. You have lots of friends that are in the good or bad group. I have no friends, only a small family that I protect. You think you know me or know what I'm about but to me it's obvious you don't know Jack Squat and one day you will be living in a Van... Down by the River!

If that's a Neil Young reference (lyrics by the Gibbs boys, I think), that's an ominous spin. But yeah, naivety usually winds up "down by the river," one way or another.

[monet]

If that's a Neil Young reference (lyrics by the Gibbs boys, I think), that's an ominous spin. But yeah, naivety usually winds up "down by the river," one way or another.

Same difference really. Your idea of reference works just as well as the one I had in mind.

Although in my mind, hearing the voices in my head or the skit is a bit more humorous compared to singing... Down by the River... I shot my Baby.

25 years goes by pretty quick.

Look up Matt Foley, David Spade, Kelly Bundy, SNL 1993 and youtube and have a laugh perhaps!?

(they could end up, like himself, being 35 years old, eating a steady diet of government cheese, thrice divorced... and living in a...)

"Well, la-dee-frickin-da!"

"Whoop-dee-frickin-doo!"

[quahaug]

That may be the funniest SNL skit ever. I recently watched a Debbie Downer routine and it was pretty good. The people performing couldn't control themselves. Them laughing made me laugh, I think it's contagious.

[monet]

That may be the funniest SNL skit ever. I recently watched a Debbie Downer routine and it was pretty good. The people performing couldn't control themselves. Them laughing made me laugh, I think it's contagious.

It is hard to disagree with you on this topic. Another really good quote to help people like RS along is from a movie I am sure you all have watched but I like to say it to the golden boy types when they start getting on my case and being all high and mighty. You see RS and his pals think when they run multiple people through a rebate promotion that it isn't dishonest or cheating. Hey I've done it plenty and made plenty of money doing it but I am not going to sit here and tell you how honest I am and tell you how the Casino Cheats so why shouldn't I Cheat the Casino. I am just going to admit that I am an Evil Doer and you are an Evil Doer and they are an Evil Doer and if someone can realize and agree to that sort of thinking we are able to move forward. However, the ones that start thinking they are above others because they play nice or they do things differently... well we have our disagreements. So enough with that... onto the movie quote!

What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of f'n a--holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your f'n fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth.......

Even when I Lie !!

Soooooo say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you.

Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

[LarryS]

are you drunk?

[monet]

are you drunk?

No I haven't had a drink for at least a decade now. I had to give it up for internal problems. I was never addicted to it but I would drink until I couldn't see straight. My type of personality is all or nothing so it is pretty much like that with anything in life for me. My long term friend didn't like that so much because he lost his sometimes drinking partner and he likes to drink but when your body says that is enough you kinda have to listen to it. Alcohol is no joke... it is straight poison to your system and it can cause a lot of people intestinal problems later in life and this is Vegas... the Beer, Wine and Whiskey flows daily and never ends. Anyways, my point is that I am completely sober.

Wait... I don't have Irish Heritage but I do have some Scottish so I guess I should say Whisky.

[LarryS]

only kidding...those words you posted were originally uttered by a very drunk man

[monet]

only kidding...those words you posted were originally uttered by a very drunk man

Oh yeah... your right... actually when I drank I did kinda get like that... man you got me this time... wheeeew right over my head! Funny... good laugh...thanks!

I am so slow I should of used my good line when someone asks me that from Groundhog Day...

Drunks more fun!

[mickeycrimm]

good post monet.

like V, I am not going to be spending months at machines...even though I can in reno if I chose to.

But it was a nice general insight.

i will stick to hold-em and sports.....with an occasional slot.

but i will follow up with this question

where do APs get the info about the machines . For example MC has talked of some machines with mini jackpots that are set to hit before it reaches a certain potamount.
where would one find this info. I understand how one coud use simple math to caluculate the amount of money and spins needed to get the jackpot to the max point. And by playing for a few spins you can see what percent of the bet goes to the jackpot....but where do u get info on "this machine will pay thejackpot before x amount of dollars.

It's found right on the machines. Look what it says right under the meters:

[LarryS]

obviously i couldnt be an AP.....it seems simple reading and awareness is required.

[DJatc]

oops wrong thread