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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #21
    I think it was clear that Mike got a lump sum. IIRC on top of that, he got a nice salary for staying on for a few years. IIRC Zuga said the site was doing as expected and he would love for Mike to stay on if he wanted to.

    FYI they just bought his VP program from him that he thought was basically monetarily worthless (I should get a cut for suggesting they buy it (-; )

    I don't think WOV is good for the Casino Affiliate game. For the most part, they only make money when someone signs up and maks a deposit either with a CPA deal or a percentage of the player's losses. They don't get paid for just advertising on the site.

    Almost without fail, anytime someone asks about online casinos a majority of the members(including respected members, math guys and AP's) basically tell them to STAY AWAY from online gambling. Anyone interested will do doubt end up reading about all the bad shit that goes on with online gambling. Almost everything posted on WOV about online gambling is negative. There are many casino affiliate sites that won't tolerate all the negative talk about online casinos.

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    (just because you fucked up and got yourself banned)
    I fucked up and got myself banned? Really? refresh my memory and tell me what rule I broke or what I did that was a ban-able offense?

    I am banned for one reason: Someone who wasn't even a member didn't like what I was saying and demanded that Mike ban me. And Mike feeling he owed this person a favor couldn't say no. Those are his words not mine. I can post the screen shot if you don't remember.

    And because I broke no rules, Mike had to manufacture a reason to ban me. Hense the announcement: "while normally we don't consider things said on other sites....I am banning KewlJ for something said on another site".

    You can say what you want about my handling of things after the fact. I admit poorly....immaturely.

    But don't you dare say "that I fucked up and got my self banned". I did no such thing. Saying that I did is a flat out lie.

  3. #23
    I believe Axel is the same one from WoV.

    I would be shocked if someone was impersonating him and it hasn't come out yet.

    The Wizard of Odds seal of approval is funny.



    Any casino with the Wizard seal of approval has been vetted by Wizard management, including the Wizard himself. We will promote such casinos as trustworthy casinos you can feel safe to play at. However, in the interests of giving players choices, we may also market casinos that don’t quite meet our high standards, as identified by not having the Wizard seal.

    With any casino we promote, if you click through an ad on this site, which leads to opening an account, as evidenced by an affiliate code in the link to the casino, then we will stand behind you. If you ever have a dispute with a casino and are a confirmed "Wizard" player, then we will try to help. We do ask that you try to work out the problem yourself first, and only request assistance from us as a last resort.
    https://wizardofodds.com/advertising/policy/

    LOL at the bolded part (bolding is mine, not theirs).

    "In the interests of giving players choices..."

    Yeah, BS.

    More like the interests in taking affiliate money from totally untrustworthy, shady operations.

    I get offers all the time to advertise on this site and PokerFraudAlert from these shady casinos, and I turn them all down. I wouldn't be opposed to putting up a banner for a long-running, "mostly legit" site like Bovada, but for WoO/WoV to carry ads for non-approved sites is pretty scummy.

    This seal/non-seal thing is BS.

    If you don't trust a site, don't run ads for them. It's that simple.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I believe Axel is the same one from WoV.

    I would be shocked if someone was impersonating him and it hasn't come out yet.

    The Wizard of Odds seal of approval is funny.



    Any casino with the Wizard seal of approval has been vetted by Wizard management, including the Wizard himself. We will promote such casinos as trustworthy casinos you can feel safe to play at. However, in the interests of giving players choices, we may also market casinos that don’t quite meet our high standards, as identified by not having the Wizard seal.

    With any casino we promote, if you click through an ad on this site, which leads to opening an account, as evidenced by an affiliate code in the link to the casino, then we will stand behind you. If you ever have a dispute with a casino and are a confirmed "Wizard" player, then we will try to help. We do ask that you try to work out the problem yourself first, and only request assistance from us as a last resort.
    https://wizardofodds.com/advertising/policy/

    LOL at the bolded part (bolding is mine, not theirs).

    "In the interests of giving players choices..."

    Yeah, BS.

    More like the interests in taking affiliate money from totally untrustworthy, shady operations.

    I get offers all the time to advertise on this site and PokerFraudAlert from these shady casinos, and I turn them all down. I wouldn't be opposed to putting up a banner for a long-running, "mostly legit" site like Bovada, but for WoO/WoV to carry ads for non-approved sites is pretty scummy.

    This seal/non-seal thing is BS.

    If you don't trust a site, don't run ads for them. It's that simple.
    I think MR V was just trying to be funny and poke fun and saw it as an opportunity to bring up Angela(he wants her). I have no doubt he and all others believe I'm in fact the real/same AxelWolf who also posts on WOV.

  5. #25
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    (just because you fucked up and got yourself banned)
    I fucked up and got myself banned? Really? refresh my memory and tell me what rule I broke or what I did that was a ban-able offense?

    I am banned for one reason: Someone who wasn't even a member didn't like what I was saying and demanded that Mike ban me. And Mike feeling he owed this person a favor couldn't say no. Those are his words not mine. I can post the screen shot if you don't remember.

    And because I broke no rules, Mike had to manufacture a reason to ban me. Hense the announcement: "while normally we don't consider things said on other sites....I am banning KewlJ for something said on another site".

    You can say what you want about my handling of things after the fact. I admit poorly....immaturely.

    But don't you dare say "that I fucked up and got my self banned". I did no such thing. Saying that I did is a flat out lie.
    I thought you had made a deal and came to an agreement not to mention QFIT(Norm) but did it anyways? Was the entier agreement conversation Via PM?
    No need to tell us how you felt pressure or whatever. You agreed to do it and you shouldn't have agreed.

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Flaming lefty Babs is giving libtard ams288 carta blanche to troll the Trump thread. People are complaining but she isn't listening. She should recuse herself or be removed from moderating that thread.
    Someone had to PM Mission to look into ams288's troll posts. Mission doesn't normally moderate the Trump thread. Bab's has been very quick to suspend those with conservative views if they get just the least bit out of line. But she just can't pull the trigger on those with liberal views she agree's with. But with Mission in the picture she had to acquiese and agree to a suspension for ams288.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Hmmm ... could it be Angela posting as AW?

    The wiz and her seem pretty tight, I'm sure she'd always have his back, just like AW does.
    Who is Angela?
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  8. #28
    Lucky Dragon WoV Thread

    Roger Kint needled me about the gas card promotion and the mailers. I never got cut off or in trouble over there and they had good Comp/Free Play every month. Roger was usually cool with me but he didn’t like how I would share information that wasn’t generally known to the public or some APs. After I told the wiz to GFY he seems to hate me with a passion.

    AxelWolf got a couple of zingers on me about me having to go to the pawn shop to get money to gamble with and money to buy ammo for my guns. I get the ribbing. All in good fun but truth be told I think I shared plays out of my own daily playbook with WoV for free. Plays that can earn an easy 20k per year and more. I also hate pawn shops and never use them to get money. I’m also very sincere in helping players get free rooms and comp on my own accounts just because I like to spread it around for free. Currently I am talking to a WoV member to get him 5 free nights and a thousand in Comps. You would think these guys would appreciate me a little more. Always willing to help people on this forum and over there anytime if they ask.

  9. #29
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    Originally Posted by AxelWolf
    I think MR V was just trying to be funny and poke fun and saw it as an opportunity to bring up Angela(he wants her). I have no doubt he and all others believe I'm in fact the real/same AxelWolf who also posts on WOV.
    Correct, no aspersions intended to be cast Axel's way; I was clumsily kidding.

    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Who is Angela?
    She's a lady Mike interacts with in his gambling videos.

    see: Wiz and Angela Marie video

    Last edited by MisterV; 01-05-2018 at 08:21 AM.
    What, Me Worry?

  10. #30
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I thought you had made a deal and came to an agreement not to mention QFIT(Norm) but did it anyways? Was the entier agreement conversation Via PM?
    No need to tell us how you felt pressure or whatever. You agreed to do it and you shouldn't have agreed.
    Oh PLEASE! That "truce" forced on me, was as phony as you are!

    Qfit and I BOTH broke that truce agreement for which I received a 7 day suspension and he 3 days. That should tell you something right there.

    However, I was not banned for violating a truce agreement. I was banned "for something said on another site", which was a manufactured rule made up to ban me. Up until that time there was no such rule.

    Who EVER heard of a moderator of an internet forum telling people what they can or can't say on another internet forum? For one thing, as Dan Druff alluded to early, They can't be sure it is the same poster and not someone posing, since they don't have access to IP addresses.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 01-05-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  11. #31
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Lucky Dragon WoV Thread

    Roger Kint needled me about the gas card promotion and the mailers. I never got cut off or in trouble over there and they had good Comp/Free Play every month. Roger was usually cool with me but he didn’t like how I would share information that wasn’t generally known to the public or some APs. After I told the wiz to GFY he seems to hate me with a passion.

    AxelWolf got a couple of zingers on me about me having to go to the pawn shop to get money to gamble with and money to buy ammo for my guns. I get the ribbing. All in good fun but truth be told I think I shared plays out of my own daily playbook with WoV for free. Plays that can earn an easy 20k per year and more. I also hate pawn shops and never use them to get money. I’m also very sincere in helping players get free rooms and comp on my own accounts just because I like to spread it around for free. Currently I am talking to a WoV member to get him 5 free nights and a thousand in Comps. You would think these guys would appreciate me a little more. Always willing to help people on this forum and over there anytime if they ask.
    I made that joke knowing full well you would see it. And yes, I was only busting your pingpangpong balls(admit it, you thought it was funny). Roger is a good guy, I have no doubt he was just doing some ball busting as well.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I thought you had made a deal and came to an agreement not to mention QFIT(Norm) but did it anyways? Was the entier agreement conversation Via PM?
    No need to tell us how you felt pressure or whatever. You agreed to do it and you shouldn't have agreed.
    Oh PLEASE! That "truce" forced on me, was as phony as you are!

    Qfit and I BOTH broke that truce agreement for which I received a 7 day suspension and he 3 days. That should tell you something right there.

    However, I was not banned for violating a truce agreement. I was banned "for something said on another site", which was a manufactured rule made up to ban me. Up until that time there was no such rule.

    Who EVER heard of a moderator of an internet forum telling people what they can or can't say on another internet forum? For one thing, as Dan Druff alluded to early, They can't be sure it is the same poster and not someone posing, since they don't have access to IP addresses.
    "For one thing, as Dan Druff alluded to early, They can't be sure it is the same poster and not someone posing, since they don't have access to IP addresses."
    I don't understand what this is in reference to.

    Did Mike hold a gun to your head?

    I don't know what agreement you guys made and of it extended outside the forum as per your agreement.

    I ask you again, was this agreement made Via PM? Feel free to post it up.

    Speaking of things that are as queer as a $3 bill

    Speaking of a truce. Anytime you want to stop this back and forth nonsense, that seems to have been sparked by LarryS's arrival, just let me know.
    While he may be on the same side as you regarding the WOV nonsense, he's just waiting to get his licks in on you(on your balls, he thinks they need to be washed)
    Last edited by AxelWolf; 01-05-2018 at 11:39 AM.

  13. #33
    It all doesnt matter. Remember after the banning of KJ, he went to GF to explain his case, and for a couple of weeks he started to get sympathy on GF anf WOV. There was a thread on wov with others saying he got a bad deal. People on GF showed empathy and said he got a bad deal. BUT THEN.....he posted what he sent to the wiz...
    "I don't consider what I am doing as attacking you, but I can promise you this....I will not let this go. I will bring up your handling of this situation, every chance I get. In my book, next year. If I decide to do GWAE as Munchin has asked. On every site that I participate on......for the rest of my life. And since I am almost 20 years younger than you, that should cover the rest of your life. Every couple weeks or couple months, I will be somewhere questioning your integrity, honesty and professionalism. And hopefully the guys here at WoV that know that you were unfair will continue to bring it up every few weeks." KJ


    and the support dried up overnight. People felt misled because had they known this up front, they wouldnt have supported.

    2 mods said if it werent for that threat, they if asked woud have tried to accelerate the return of KJ.

    So its all moot now. Who cares now who was the first t break a truce, or if the breaking of a truce was more severe by one person over the other. Doesnt matter. People get banned and sometimes suspended for questionable reasons. Just as sometimes people get fired at work for questionable reasons. But in all cases if you threaten the boss.....you aint fucking coming back.

    KJ did NOT leave the door open for a future return. He slammed the door and nailed it shut and then covered the door with a big piece of sheet rock with a large bookcase in front of it...and then set the house on fire.

    the point is, that there was an organic call for KJs return starting, while the wiz kept quiet and didnt divulge the threat......and it all came crashing down when the truth emerged.

    Everyone talks about missing MC at wov.....but a small little thing.....he threatend to shoot the wiz on another board. Oh yeah, you shouldnt count what people say on other boards...excuse me.
    Last edited by LarryS; 01-05-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  14. #34
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I don't know what agreement you guys made and of it extended outside the forum as per your agreement.

    I ask you again, was this agreement made Via PM? Feel free to post it up.
    The truce was made by PM, yes. I was told I could not be critical of Qfit or his site. This was total Bullshit, because Qfit was "protecting" a member that was intentionally midleading other players. For Mike to forbid me from criticizing Qfit for protecting this person would be like Mike telling the WoV members that no one is allowed to question Alan's 18 y.o.'s in a row statement, or that no one is allowed to question and be critical of Michael Morgenstern the youtube blackjack fraud. You just can't do that. Legitimate players have not only a right to call bullshit and fraud (in this case intentional misleading), but a responsibility to do so.

    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Feel free to post it up.
    I can't do that. I no longer have access to my PM's at WoV, which banned members are supposed to still be able to get to. Just another case of Mike changing the rules for me.


    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Speaking of a truce. Anytime you want to stop this back and forth nonsense, that seems to have been sparked by LarryS's arrival, just let me know.
    While he may be on the same side as you regarding the WOV nonsense, he's just waiting to get his licks in on you(on your balls, he thinks they need to be washed)
    At least I know where I stand with LarryS. he is upfront about that. You on the other hand are a two-faced.

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    "I don't consider what I am doing as attacking you, but I can promise you this....I will not let this go. I will bring up your handling of this situation, every chance I get. In my book, next year. If I decide to do GWAE as Munchin has asked. On every site that I participate on......for the rest of my life. And since I am almost 20 years younger than you, that should cover the rest of your life. Every couple weeks or couple months, I will be somewhere questioning your integrity, honesty and professionalism. And hopefully the guys here at WoV that know that you were unfair will continue to bring it up every few weeks." KJ
    Larry, I take exception to you or anyone else continuing to call this a threat.

    Definition of threat (from Webster's dictionary):

    [THret]
    NOUN
    1.a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done:


    Saying you are going to shoot someone is a threat (not speaking of anyone in particular). Saying you are going to show up at someone's door and kick the crap out of them is a threat. Saying you are going to continue to bring up the truth, is not a threat.

    Mike told me in private (and I posted the PM's) that he felt he owed Norm (Qfit) a favor so couldn't say 'no' when Norm asked. He all but acknowledged that he was wrong to do so. BUT, he said "he could not allow me back because there would be consequences from Norm".

    Mike was hoping was that this would just blow over....go away. I was simply telling him, that was not going to happen. Telling someone you will keep bringing up the truth can not be a threat!

    If anything it was a "challenge". Mike Shackleford is a guy that loves challenges. I was challenging him to do the right thing. He failed that challenge.

  16. #36
    Saying you are going to shoot someone is a threat (not speaking of anyone in particular). Saying you are going to show up at someone's door and kick the crap out of them is a threat. Saying you are going to continue to bring up the truth, is not a threat.

    this is a definition of a physical threat

    NO ONE EVER ACCUSED YOU OF PHYSICALLY THREATENING HIM


    Every couple weeks or couple months, I will be somewhere questioning your integrity, honesty and professionalism



    The above is a threat. Any rational person would view it as a threat to soil peoples view of his integrity and honesty for the rest of his life. Get it through your head......I dont care if you feel you will question his integrity with the truth. no one is saying that you threated to spread lies. You threatened to question his integrity and professionalism publicly with the truth. Still a threat. Its not a physical threat..its not a threat to spread lies....but its a threat to possibly make his life miserable.

  17. #37
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    It all doesnt matter. Remember after the banning of KJ, he went to GF to explain his case, and for a couple of weeks he started to get sympathy on GF anf WOV. There was a thread on wov with others saying he got a bad deal. People on GF showed empathy and said he got a bad deal. BUT THEN.....he posted what he sent to the wiz...
    "I don't consider what I am doing as attacking you, but I can promise you this....I will not let this go. I will bring up your handling of this situation, every chance I get. In my book, next year. If I decide to do GWAE as Munchin has asked. On every site that I participate on......for the rest of my life. And since I am almost 20 years younger than you, that should cover the rest of your life. Every couple weeks or couple months, I will be somewhere questioning your integrity, honesty and professionalism. And hopefully the guys here at WoV that know that you were unfair will continue to bring it up every few weeks." KJ


    and the support dried up overnight. People felt misled because had they known this up front, they wouldnt have supported.

    2 mods said if it werent for that threat, they if asked woud have tried to accelerate the return of KJ.

    So its all moot now. Who cares now who was the first t break a truce, or if the breaking of a truce was more severe by one person over the other. Doesnt matter. People get banned and sometimes suspended for questionable reasons. Just as sometimes people get fired at work for questionable reasons. But in all cases if you threaten the boss.....you aint fucking coming back.

    KJ did NOT leave the door open for a future return. He slammed the door and nailed it shut and then covered the door with a big piece of sheet rock with a large bookcase in front of it...and then set the house on fire.

    the point is, that there was an organic call for KJs return starting, while the wiz kept quiet and didnt divulge the threat......and it all came crashing down when the truth emerged.

    Everyone talks about missing MC at wov.....but a small little thing.....he threatend to shoot the wiz on another board. Oh yeah, you shouldnt count what people say on other boards...excuse me.
    You got no street smarts, buddy. When Shack announced "Normally we don't...." that was it for KJ, the end, nata, fanito lama zica. KJ had no chance to ever return to WoV at that point. From that point forward it was just a charade on Shack's part. QFIT was never going to approve of KJ's return and Shack knew it. No way he was going to announce "Per QFIT, KJ won't be back." So he broke one of his own rules and banned KJ for "something said on another site."

    But WoV members were upset at KJ's banning and made their concerns known to Shack. The only thing Shack could do to placate them was act like a benevalent leader and say "I'm going to take that under consideration." Did he act on it in the ensuing weeks? Nope. Then KJ contacted him though Diversity Tomorrow. Shack knew that if he didn't negotiate with KJ it would give KJ more ammunition to use against him online. Word would get back to his unhappy minions. He played along like he was negotiating so he could tell his minions he was making a good faith effort. But at the end of negotiations he fired with "I have to run it by QFIT." That was the trump card.

    He was trying to break KJ down easy at that point. Then he would deliver the final blow later. "I just can't get QFIT to agree." KJ's PM promising to keep the issue alive, until there was an acceptable resolution, came well after all of the above. It was a very convenient pretext for Shack to leak it out to his minions that "he did everything he could" to get KJ back but that in the end "KJ threatened me and consequently won't be back." The whole thing was just a bullshit charade on Shackleford's part.

    Now how about the issue of why Shackleford lent his power to try to muzzle KJ from exposing a system with outlandish claims of success. Shackleford is a debunker of systems and strategies with outlandish claims of success. Did he ever say "Let me see that system that's being pushed on that site and see whether or not the claims are outlandish?" NOPE. In that respect Shackleford is complicit. He played a willing role in QFIT's coverup attempt. And in doing so he got a bunch of tarnish on his chrome finish. Tarnish that hasn't come off to this point.
    "Walter Cronkite could not get a job in the main stream media today." Alan Dershowitz

  18. #38
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    It's pretty simple, really.

    The wiz said IIRC that he owed a favor to QFIT.

    He owed no favors to KJ.

    Plus he'd sold the site and was just a hired hand so he probably didn't really care a whole bunch, having no skin in the game.
    What, Me Worry?

  19. #39
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Now how about the issue of why Shackleford lent his power to try to muzzle KJ from exposing a system with outlandish claims of success. Shackleford is a debunker of systems and strategies with outlandish claims of success. Did he ever say "Let me see that system that's being pushed on that site and see whether or not the claims are outlandish?" NOPE. In that respect Shackleford is complicit. He played a willing role in QFIT's coverup attempt. And in doing so he got a bunch of tarnish on his chrome finish. Tarnish that hasn't come off to this point.
    While EVERYTHING Mickey said in his above post is true, I still like to give Mike the benefit of doubt and think it wasn't all quite as 'calculated' as mickey suggests. I like to think Mike just got in over his head, allowed Qfit to manipulate and bully him, and once he realized his mistake, which according to his PM's was pretty early on, he just didn't know how to get out this mess without looking bad. Unfortunately he allowed that insecurity of "worrying how he looked" to override, doing what he knew was right. That is sad.

    But I really want to focus on this last paragraph made by mickey. What this is really about is mathematics. This is what it boils down to:

    On Qfit's site there was a guy claiming that his 'super-duper counting system' resulted in a 500% increase in results over traditional card counting. Card counters can normally achieve about a 1% advantage, depending on specifics (often much less for most players). So this guy was claiming a 5% long-term advantage. THAT is impossible from card counting! That is NOT my opinion.....It is mathematically impossible! You can not achieve that kind of advantage with perfect computer play.

    So when people (I was not alone) called this out as bullshit, the owner of that site, Qfit, decided to back and support the guy making the ridiculously impossible claims. Being a math guy, he must have known these claims were impossible. I have no idea why...but the fraud guy was the leading poster (by far) on his site.

    So when the whole thing spills over to WoV, and this Qfit demanded or used his 'favor' to have Mike ban me, he really is doing much more than that. He is asking Mike Shackleford, a highly respected math guy, to turn his back on the mathematics. He is manipulating Mike into indorsing this mathematically impossible claim!

    THAT is the part I don't even think Mike realizes. This is REALLY about a mathematically impossible claim, that there is no way in hell that Mike would support and yet, he has been manipulated into doing so. Under normal circumstances, Mike would have been right there among the first to discredit such a mathematically impossible claim.

  20. #40
    Let's just change the circumstances a bit. Let's replace this blackjack mathematically impossible claim, with Alan's claim of 18 y.o.'s in a row. I don't say this to pick on Alan. But it just so happens this too is mathematically impossible. And Mike has basically lead the charge saying it is impossible. SO, had Mike's friend Qfit, who Mike owed a favor to, asked Mike to support Alan's claim, would Mike have turned his back on the mathematics? I don't think so.

    To this day, I don't think Mike, who is a super smart guy, but apparently lacking some 'street smarts' has any idea what this is really about and how he was manipulated into taking a position against the very mathematics that he a math guy....believes in.

    And finally a year after the fact, another mathematician, blackjack expert Don Schlesinger, DID take a stand and state that the person in question's claims were complete bullshit, mathematically impossible. THAT SHOULD have been Mike's position a year prior. It really should have been Qfit's position. It should have been the position of anyone who believes in Mathematics.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 01-05-2018 at 08:01 PM.

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