The WoV Thread

[The Boz]

Looks like the naked hippie is back trying to get hits for his shitty clickbait website.

Every time he needs to promote the site and his environmental terrorist manifesto, he crawls back to the Wizard. And of course Mike gives he free reign to push the garbage.

Also note how he tries to start shit when Mission talks about the state by state report he did on online gambling. He has to post that Mike is shown as writing the article. It won’t work hippie. Maybe for the first time in your life you should get a JOB.

Bitter, bitter liberal loser in the shithole of Austin Texas, still angry Mike got rich selling his website while he is looked at as potential domestic terrorist with his.

[accountinquestion]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

It is a bit sad. Boz says "thats what we do to each other". "each other" says Boz! Not exactly given the person doesn't even post here.

I think I'd rather be broke and a loser than one of these "winners" with money.

[monet]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

STFU RETARD!

[Rob.Singer]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

It is a bit sad. Boz says "thats what we do to each other". "each other" says Boz! Not exactly given the person doesn't even post here.

I think I'd rather be broke and a loser than one of these "winners" with money.

From what I've seen the loser is a tard. Winners can't be bothered with fools like that.

[mcap]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

STFU RETARD!

Fuck off faggot. Why don’t you go buy your hobby farm already to live out your sick fantasies you dirty sheep fucker.

That’s how we respond to each other here right?

[The Boz]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

It is a bit sad. Boz says "thats what we do to each other". "each other" says Boz! Not exactly given the person doesn't even post here.

I think I'd rather be broke and a loser than one of these "winners" with money.

See this is exactly what you don’t understand. And it’s why that education you are in debt for is worthless.

You shouldn’t have to make the choice. Anyone in America not mentally or physically disabled (Being PC) shouldn’t be broke if they don’t want to be long term. Opportunities are everywhere but most refuse to make the tough choices in life.

So many have proved it but the liberals like you want to play victim. It won’t happen overnight but it is out there. Every day is Y in life and only you can make the right choice. But making the easy, wrong choice each day is a sure path to ending up where you are in life now.

The good news is you can change your path. And be a winner in life, without being a dick like many of us. But all things considered, being a dick with money works out just fine.

[The Boz]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

STFU RETARD!

Fuck off faggot. Why don’t you go buy your hobby farm already to live out your sick fantasies you dirty sheep fucker.

That’s how we respond to each other here right?

Actually we save faggot for those who actually admit they like cock in multiple orifices.

I feel comfortable that Monet doesn’t like cock or sheep. Try to be a little more on point with your attempts at insults.

[accountinquestion]

Feeling the need to mock someone for their mental health issues makes said person a bigger loser than that person in my book.

It is a bit sad. Boz says "thats what we do to each other". "each other" says Boz! Not exactly given the person doesn't even post here.

I think I'd rather be broke and a loser than one of these "winners" with money.

See this is exactly what you don’t understand. And it’s why that education you are in debt for is worthless.

You shouldn’t have to make the choice. Anyone in America not mentally or physically disabled (Being PC) shouldn’t be broke if they don’t want to be long term. Opportunities are everywhere but most refuse to make the tough choices in life.

So many have proved it but the liberals like you want to play victim. It won’t happen overnight but it is out there. Every day is Y in life and only you can make the right choice. But making the easy, wrong choice each day is a sure path to ending up where you are in life now.

The good news is you can change your path. And be a winner in life, without being a dick like many of us. But all things considered, being a dick with money works out just fine.

I'm not in any debt for my degree and even if I was it is quite valuable in terms of earning potential. Literally you'd be hard-pressed to be more wrong. I typically don't even bother to read the rest of the shit you say when it is such rubbish at the start.

Actually I read the rest and yes it is even more rubbish. So little to do with anything. You guys... have to make up shit. ROFL. Wish I could be like you, reading about degenerate weirdos by Andy Ngo, speaking of BBC and which trannies are the most fuckable. You've obviously won at life bro. Really.

[Mission146]

Flying today so I’ll get to read it entirely later and reply. Just from a glance, you put a lot of research into it. Good stuff!

Thanks, looking forward to hearing your thoughts! JFTR, I don't think Bluejay was trying to start anything with me. That page does indeed say Mike wrote it, but that's not really something I'm concerned about.

If they paid Mike for something I wrote, then I would be concerned. lol

ADDED: I actually write several pages completely anonymously for some of the other sites, so I don't worry about credit too much. I write under a pseudonym, anyway.

[The Boz]

Flying today so I’ll get to read it entirely later and reply. Just from a glance, you put a lot of research into it. Good stuff!

Thanks, looking forward to hearing your thoughts! JFTR, I don't think Bluejay was trying to start anything with me. That page does indeed say Mike wrote it, but that's not really something I'm concerned about.

If they paid Mike for something I wrote, then I would be concerned. lol

ADDED: I actually write several pages completely anonymously for some of the other sites, so I don't worry about credit too much. I write under a pseudonym, anyway.

I just finished reading the entire story for the 2nd time to make sure I understand the points you made on the different machines. Definitely Pace at least tried to design a game that they can try to legally argue is skill. It’s what they have based their selling point to location owners, along with the court ruling.

The Banilla games didn’t even try, but I don’t think they care about what PA thinks. They are only concerned with selling the machines and it’s then on the location owner to justify the legality of their machines. Georgia was their concern and they feel like Pace does in PA their product is legal there.

I liked that you reached out to Banilla for comments. Did you ask anything about return? If so, did they give you the same excuse that the return depends on the “skill” of the player.

As you know, the return issue has been my concern all along. My experience with the many vendors looking to place the at my former location was always vague. But loaded with claims of all the money other locations were making and what they “expected” I would make a week. But never any answers on how much money would need to be run through to get to this amount. Along with them getting their share, it was obvious that the return to player was low. Or there was amounts of cash being played that was well above anything I would have expected.

Overall, a very thorough report on these games and my opinion is these games were not targeted in particular. Because before CV the LCB/ State Police were also confiscating Pace machines. The bust we discussed was more because of the blatant advertising the location as a casino. What games involved was of little consequence when the state considers all skill games illegal.

[Mission146]

I just finished reading the entire story for the 2nd time to make sure I understand the points you made on the different machines. Definitely Pace at least tried to design a game that they can try to legally argue is skill. It’s what they have based their selling point to location owners, along with the court ruling.

The Banilla games didn’t even try, but I don’t think they care about what PA thinks. They are only concerned with selling the machines and it’s then on the location owner to justify the legality of their machines. Georgia was their concern and they feel like Pace does in PA their product is legal there.

I liked that you reached out to Banilla for comments. Did you ask anything about return? If so, did they give you the same excuse that the return depends on the “skill” of the player.

As you know, the return issue has been my concern all along. My experience with the many vendors looking to place the at my former location was always vague. But loaded with claims of all the money other locations were making and what they “expected” I would make a week. But never any answers on how much money would need to be run through to get to this amount. Along with them getting their share, it was obvious that the return to player was low. Or there was amounts of cash being played that was well above anything I would have expected.

Overall, a very thorough report on these games and my opinion is these games were not targeted in particular. Because before CV the LCB/ State Police were also confiscating Pace machines. The bust we discussed was more because of the blatant advertising the location as a casino. What games involved was of little consequence when the state considers all skill games illegal.

FIRST PARAGRAPH: I agree with that completely. The one thing I will say in Banilla Games' defense is that the gentleman sounded legitimately surprised that the non Keystone series (branded to customers as, 'Superior Skill Games') were in PA. I definitely wouldn't want to see games that have barely any skill component floating around if I were trying to get my portfolio of products legalized. I'd at least want to have the look ahead feature on everything in PA...or something even better like Pace-O-Matic has with their games.

SECOND PARAGRAPH: That's right, and it doesn't seem like they work too directly with the distributors once the machine and software has been sold. I should have an interview next week with a gentleman from Banilla Games to get some answers, which will be another article. My interview was first rescheduled with the gentleman from Pace-O-Matic and then I didn't hear back at all. Perhaps he changed his mind about it appearing on a website that is decidedly about gambling, but I'm obviously going to be upfront about who it is I'm writing for. The Banilla Games representative who handles media is on vacation this week, but he seems fine with where the interview will be published.

I'm going to be fair, but very direct in my questions. I accept the justification on the Keystone series that the player doesn't have to lose, but I am going to kind of press him on how having these other games in a jurisdiction where they are not decidedly legal doesn't hurt the cause of Banilla and other manufacturers. I've also made it clear to the gentleman that my position on Fusion 4 and Diamond Skill Games is that those machines ARE gambling, in my view.

THIRD PARAGRAPH: No, but I'll cover that in the interview. The interesting thing about the Pace-O-Matics is that the return can theoretically be 105%+ as long as the player...um...we'll say, 'Plays,' the Simon Says game perfectly.

FOURTH PARAGRAPH: I'm concerned about it, but not that much. If you look even at Nevada...what do you know about a slot machine? You know it has to return at least 75%, by law. You know that the odds of a jackpot must be disclosed if it's more than 1 in 300,000,000 against, or whatever ridiculous number. West Virginia, 80% or better. While the sample size is limited (I'm NOT wanting to lose money!) the return of the lowest bet (had to play them to get an idea how they worked) seemed roughly comparable to a penny slot machine on the Banilla Games.

Also, you need players to enjoy the games...and I don't think a ridiculously low return like 50% is going to accomplish that. Of course, that (or worse) is the return of some legal State Lottery drawing games...and people seem to play those...so you never know. But, I just can't see a player taking a 50% shellacking on a machine and keep coming back for more.

I'd be interested in the specifics of some of the claims if you recall and don't mind. Perhaps I'll pretend to be a convenience store owner interested in Pace-O-Matics, call the local distributor, and see what they say. I'll include that in the interview article or make it a separate article if I do.

As far as operator profits are concerned, it's not like it takes a lot. Take a look at this:

https://gamingcontrolboard.pa.gov/fi...ual_Report.pdf

Page 21 of the report (23 of the pdf) would indicate that Meadows Casino rakes in $191 in slot win, per machine, on 3,003 machines...every day. If you figure an average house edge of 10%, then that means that some $1,910 is going into each machine every day...which isn't a ton.

Another thing is they might have just been straight up lying about the amount you could expect to make on them weekly. Or, if not outright lying, making a, 'Wiggle room,' statement. "Oh, no, I didn't mean that much per machine, I meant on your bank of three machines."

LAST PARAGRAPH: Thanks for the compliment! As far as the advertising of it as a casino---people who play stupid games win stupid prizes. I only ever saw one place in Ohio whose primary occupation was these machines (prior to them being definitely declared illegal) and they advertised themselves as a, "Skill Game Cafe."

***ADDITIONAL---I found Pace-O-Matics at one other location and one of the games did not have the $0.40 bet available on one of the two machines. The other machine did have the bet for that game. Essentially, that must mean that each machine operates on a unique pool of spins---which, I must admit, surprised me a little. I figured that the spin pool would be all machines.

[Darkoz]

So is this an AP move of significant value and if it is why are you discussing it here

[Mission146]

Another thing a jaded parlor owner in West Virginia once told me, "I only need two paychecks from people a week to be profitable." So, it's like anything else...you have to keep them winning just enough to keep coming back. They can't ever regret, "Giving it back," if they were never ahead.

[Mission146]

So is this an AP move of significant value and if it is why are you discussing it here

I don't believe so just because it is easy for casual players of these machines to figure out and that they don't get that much action...from what I have seen. The same result will stay on a particular bet amount (even low ones) for days or a week. The Fusion 4 and Diamond Skill Platinum cannot be advantage played at all without significant study on the Progressive (assuming it's even random) or inside information from the operator/location.

The only way that these could have significant long-term value...of course, we might define, 'Significant,' differently...is if you could kind of build a route with many of these machines in close concentration that get a reasonable amount of, 'Unskilled,' play.

[Tasha]

Another thing a jaded parlor owner in West Virginia once told me, "I only need two paychecks from people a week to be profitable." So, it's like anything else...you have to keep them winning just enough to keep coming back. They can't ever regret, "Giving it back," if they were never ahead.

Reminds me of "The Fever," from Twilight Zone where a man named Franklin went from HATING Gambling to becoming ADDICTED to it. It took one drunk man to grab Franklin's hand and force him to play a slot and whammo! Franklin got addicted to Gambling just like that, making multiple loans just to gamble. Here is the prime thing I am getting at. Franklin tells his wife something like,"Gambling takes a lot from you, gives you a little back, and then you lose that little back they gave you and you keep giving them even more money on top of what you already lost. Gambling is EVIL yet I can't stop playing it!"

[Mission146]

More on Skill Games:

Some of this will probably go in another article, assuming the interview with the Banilla Games rep materializes.

1.) The first thing that I have to add is that I have now encountered a machine called, "Diamond Games Fusion," this differs slightly from Diamond Games Platinum in that there is not even an illusion of a potential win if the player has a losing result. As you might recall, with the Diamond Skill Platinum games, the player could choose to hit, "Spin," again without making a choice on the skill component if any possible choice could only lose. With the Diamond Skill Game Fusion model, the player can only make a choice on a potential win. More than that, on the reel drop down or move up games, the game seems to light up the reel that the player wants to change.

2.) I took a sample size of thirty convenience stores and/or gas stations (most were both) in a middle to middle-high income area near Pittsburgh. Here are the results:

NO MACHINES: 23 locations

PACE-O-MATICS (3): 1 location

PACE-O-MATICS (2): 1 location

BANILLA GAMES (3): 1 location (One machine had the look ahead feature and was the only Banilla Games with look ahead I have found)

BANILLA GAMES (2): 2 locations

BANILLA GAMES (1): 2 locations

---This sample size is actually smaller than the number of locations actually checked for a few reasons:

1. I assumed large chains such as Sheetz and GetGo would not have these, (though a couple Sunoco did) because of that, I decided not to include them in the sample.*

2. I expected coffee shops to have the machines but out of seven coffee shops checked, zero have machines, so I did not include these.

3. I expected beer distributor locations to NOT have the machines. I checked five and they did not, so those are also not included in the sample.

4. Independent (non-franchised) locations were included, but none had any. Every location to have them was some kind of gas station franchise, convenience store franchise, or both.

NOTES:

1. I expect some bars to have them, but many bars are closed. I'll probably make sure to get some bars into the overall sample when I go to low to low-middle income areas and look around. I did stop in two bars and neither had any of these machines, though one did have a Cherry Master that they had shut off. These bars are not included in the above sample of thirty.

2. Many bars and a few restaurants already have a Cherry Master and might not be inclined to get anything else.

3. I stopped in three primarily tobacco stores and none had any machines. One was particularly surprising because they have ample space and used to have a Cherry Master, but no longer do. These are not included in the above sample of thirty.

4. All locations with either type of machine also sell lottery products...which is surprising because the PA Lottery is the main entity miffed about the existence of these machines.

In fact, some locations might be trying to play the deniability card. One location had a sign that the (one) Banilla Games machine could only be played during xx:xx-xx:xx (roughly lottery hours) and another location with the Pace-O-Matics will only cash tickets during lottery hours (I know this one from experience). Naturally, PA Games of Skill have less than nothing to do with the Lottery...the Lottery is the main entity to claim they're illegal, though that's presently not definitively true.

*I'm not saying none will have them, just that it would surprise me and I haven't seen any so far.

******Anyway, I'll probably include it as a section of the next article if the interview article happens. I plan to get my sample size up to at least 100 locations, some of which will be bars, by then.

LAST NOTE: I deliberately avoided a few gas stations that I've been in before and knew would be too small to have any without getting rid of the lottery machine, a cooler or one of the shelves along the walls.

[mickeycrimm]

Another thing a jaded parlor owner in West Virginia once told me, "I only need two paychecks from people a week to be profitable." So, it's like anything else...you have to keep them winning just enough to keep coming back. They can't ever regret, "Giving it back," if they were never ahead.

Mission, do you know the manufacturer's of the machines in West Virginia? For example, with Oregon's video lottery the manufacturer's are Spielo, Bally, WMS, IGT.

[Mission146]

Another thing a jaded parlor owner in West Virginia once told me, "I only need two paychecks from people a week to be profitable." So, it's like anything else...you have to keep them winning just enough to keep coming back. They can't ever regret, "Giving it back," if they were never ahead.

Mission, do you know the manufacturer's of the machines in West Virginia? For example, with Oregon's video lottery the manufacturer's are Spielo, Bally, WMS, IGT.

Spielo, Bally and IGT for the parlors; the casinos have the full range.

[mickeycrimm]

Another thing a jaded parlor owner in West Virginia once told me, "I only need two paychecks from people a week to be profitable." So, it's like anything else...you have to keep them winning just enough to keep coming back. They can't ever regret, "Giving it back," if they were never ahead.

With the Illinois Video Lottery I found machines in the bars, restaurants, gas stations, truck stops, and then there were the stand alone businesses. No matter what the venue you would find 5 machines and a cashout kiosk. So not much space required.

The stand alones were usually located in the strip malls. There would be one attendent with no a lot to do since you put money in the machine then cashed it at the kiosk. But they might sell cigarettes and snacks.

There were advantage plays in the Illinois Lottery. I used google maps on my phone to find the bars and restaurants and cruised any strip malls I came across looking for the stand alones.

In some of the stand alones I would see signs declaring how much they payed out the month before, like

"WE PAYED OUT $540,000 LAST MONTH!!"

I never seen a sign lower than 500K. This with just 5 machines. I took the sign to mean that was their coin out. With the games being around 92% payback that would mean a total wager around $580,000. And a gross profit of $40,000.

There are three entities that get payed in the Illinois Lottery.

The state gets 30% of net win.
The route operator get 35% of net win.
The business owner get 35% of net win.

So the state gets 30% of 40K, or 12K
The route operators get 35% of 40K or 14K
The business owner gets 35% of 40K or 14K

The operator supplies the machines and maintenance.

The business owner pays the rent, utilities, insurance, maintenance and labor. Not to hard to do on that kind of gross with that small of a business.

[Wynnpleasure775]

Mike is a fuck tard jerk off and has cocks up his ass. After a little bit of questioning if Mike was gay people have actually private messaged me and gave me plenty of explicit details and photographs about what Mike has done. Mike is a fucking complete jerk off as the wizard of wackoffs!

Those that praise Mike would undoubtedly believe and fall sucker to those emails to those scam people sending everybody emails and filling their email spam boxes about women wanting to fuck, just click here and meet the mom down the street whose husbands at work all day and she can host you to fuck her.