Please correct your statement. I made no such comment.Originally Posted by jdaewoo
Please correct your statement. I made no such comment.Originally Posted by jdaewoo
Most AP who brag about their winning are met with two types of vitriol
1) You aren't a successful AP because AP's don't talk about their success.
2) You are a success so shut your piehole.
If MDAWG is doing an advantage play he has chosen to go a third route which is report his winning and trips but brag they aren't AP.
It seems like he would have been heckled regardless.
I still don't understand why anyone cares about his posts since he doesn't reveal his methodology for winning. If he revealed his methodology there would be something to discuss. Because he reveals nothing what is there to discuss? He might as well say he traveled to the moon on a private rocket.Originally Posted by Darkoz
It's a complete train wreck, with him dragging Mike down the rabbit hole with him.
Glad I blocked Mdouche long ago; reading what others write about him confirms the wisdom of my action.
"If you can't bowl em over with your brilliance, baffle em with your bullshit" ... case in point.
What, Me Worry?
First of all, let me say I have no issue with you or your involvement in this. You stepped in and put up the money when someone else pulled out. Good for you. Personally, I don't think money should have been involved. That was only going to taint things. Open up the door for possible collusion. Maybe it did for all we know. Hopefully not.Originally Posted by Darkoz
Let's take the opposite of what happened. Back when you stepped in, you seemed to have serious doubts about Mdawgs claims, as some of us still do. So what if Mike had witnessed Mdawg play and revealed that what he was claiming simply couldn't be true. And then later it was revealed that you and Mike had previous financial deal in which you paid him for services. Mdoggy would have then been screaming that Mike wasn't a fair judge because he had financial ties to you. THAT is exactly why people reveal these kinds of things upfront.
So we are past that now, lets move on. Someone (mission) asked why I didn't make the deal to suit me. I DID! What I wanted to see was Mike witness Mdawgs play, possibly with 1 or 2 other witnesses, to ensure no collusion between Mdawg and Mike and then Mike issue his expert opinion as to whether these claims were possible. I thought this only fair since Wizard had provided (and still does) the platform for these claims. So I worked on that both publicly and privately with Mike last fall. Mike has a real "I just don't care about things" attitude these days, especially concerning WoV, so it took some working on my part to get him interested.
Finally, in December, Wizard made that "time to put up or shut up" announcement. Mike said he would witness Mdawgs play, no money involved to influence anything and then Mike would give his expert opinion. PERFECT! And then Mdawg started bending Mike's ear privately, and it all fell apart.
I mean here's the thing: If Mdawgs claims are what he says, and he is able to beat Baccarat in a way no one else can, he should have wanted to prove all the doubters wrong. And he could have done so by just showing Mike and maybe one other witness (I was thinking Axel at the time). Mdawg should have jumped at my proposal and it was my proposal that Mike finally announced. That he instead talked Mike out of it in private, is pretty revealing.
AND then 4 months later accepted a similar agreement for a $2000 profit. Like I said, the introduction of money only taints everything. But the big question is why would the $2000 make a difference. the guy is claiming to make hundreds of thousands. yet $2000 made a difference if he was going to allow Mike to witness or not?
And finally, I don't know what kind of agreement Mike and Mdawg made, but the original Idea was Mike would witness the play and give his expert opinion if the claims were possible. Instead, came up with "I agreed not to talk about it". What the fuck! The whole thing was supposed to be about Mike issuing his expert opinion.
Last edited by kewlJ; 05-17-2021 at 07:33 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
I don't know what others would have done and you are "supposing" here, but speaking only for me, this is how it went. When I finally had the opportunity to engage Mdawg when he came to this forum, about a year into his claims, as I have stated, I repeatedly asked if there was something he was doing to play with an advantage and he repeatedly said "no". I was very careful and not combative and used phrase like "as you are telling it" or "as you are stating it" it can't be. At one point I even asked if he was intentionally leaving something out that he didn't want to reveal.Originally Posted by Darkoz
So if he had said "yes, I am doing something that gives me an advantage, but can't or don't want to reveal it", there would have been not a further peep from me. I am not sure I would have personally believed him, but there would have been no public challenges from me. There are lots of players making claims that I don't believe, that I don't say much. It is when what they ARE saying defies the math that I have a problem.
So if he started this off with me, with a direct lie answer to my question, and that lead to all the drama of the last year....that is on him. he owes me an apology.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
And one final thought: lets look at the history of WoV.
People like Rob Singer making claims that defy math (or are super extremely unlikely) and they have been challenged by membership including Wizard.
People coming in with martingales which happens almost every week and they are immediately challenged by membership, including Wizard.
Even Alan and 18 y.o.'s in a row, at every mention, challenged by membership including Wizard.
But Mdawgs claims, Wizard suddenly goes silent and numerous members including myself were suspended multiple times and finally I was restricted from the thread in question, meaning unable to continue to challenge.
Can someone tell me why the change? I mean if this is the way it is, and it is no longer about gambling math, but instead about forum traffic, then Singer should be invited back and protected. Alan should get an apology and no one be allowed to challenge his 18 y.o. in a row.
Last edited by kewlJ; 05-17-2021 at 08:02 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
I think you hit it: "forum traffic," with perhaps a bit of disenchantment thrown into the mix.Originally Posted by kewlJ
It is probable that having sold the site to others, Mike no longer has such a personal interest in "his baby."
Although seemingly contractually required to head the forum it seems he is "phoning it in" so to speak, at least more than pre-sale.
Which is to be expected and not harshly condemned, human nature being what it is.
I suspect the increased forum traffic warms the cockles of his heart more than the satisfaction of exposing a fraud did in days gone by; why should he care, it's no longer his baby, and perhaps his priorities have changed.
Life has a way of doing that to you.
He got his marching orders from the east where understandably they care only about the Benjamins, which in the case of WoV means increased forum traffic.
Then again I could be completely wrong, maybe Mike is just mind-fucking us.
What, Me Worry?
That's right...you don't know what others would have done.Originally Posted by kewlJ
But that still didn't stop you from imagining what others would have done,
and presenting your imagination as a factual basis for whatever point you tried to make.
Originally Posted by kewlJ
MFraud has said many times that he is beating a negative game. If there were something extra giving him an edge then he wouldn't be playing a negative game. So he would be lying about playing a negative game.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I can see how and why KewlJ gets banned everywhere, he is a pain in the ass nagger. Captain Yououghttado. Everyone else is looking forward and he is complaining about dirt on the concrete and the grass is 1/4" inch too long.
Ok, I want to talk about this dude Moraine, at WoV, who is attempting to re-invent the wheel with a blackjack count that only counts 10, J, Q, K, A.
Those are the only cards any of us card counters are really interested in. No one really cars about 3's and 4's.We want to know if there is a surplus of 10 value cards and aces, which make up the 150% payout of a blackjack and make double downs more successful. It really is that simple.
Unfortunately just counting 10 value and aces doesn't give you all the information you need. You need to know if there are more or less of these cards than a 'normal' or neutral deck. There are two ways to do this. The easiest is to pick a second group of cards to offset the five 10 value cards and ace, either the same number of cards (balanced count) or slightly more (unbalanced count with pivot point). So that is what Hi-lo does.
The second way is ratio's. You can track only the five cards in question as this Moraine is suggesting measuring again normal ratio's of 5/13 or 20/52 for each deck. You start talking about multiple decks, 6, 8 and this ratio method is much harder than the Hi-Lo offset method, for most players, myself included. That is why we do the offset. Easier and gets the same information. Like I and others have said the guy is trying to re-invent the wheel.
Now on of the arguments that these guys always make and this moraine made today, is that any count or method of counting that isn't Hi-Lo is beneficial because the EITS (surveillance) uses Hi-Lo for evaluations. So any method used that differs from Hi-Lo will provide some longevity. This is completely wrong in 2021. Maybe in the early 2000's this was so, but today evaluations are done by computers, not some guy up above counting down using Hi-Lo. So they have perfect effect of removal, which means if you are using a count slightly stronger than Hi-Lo, you will correlate with the computer even more often, which will result in the complete opposite effect of shorter longevity, not longer.
Some of these guys crack me up, trying to re-invent what works and doesn't, even though it has been proven over and over. Give this moraine character a couple more years and he will conclude that the wheel is working just fine and Hi-Lo is the way to go.And kudos to a couple people trying hard to explain it all to him, while he responds with attitude and name calling.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
WIZARD APPROVED!
Now what Fuckers??
Trash MDawg... that's fine but your best buddy pal, the Wizard of Odds, is obviously in his corner.
And continues to promote MDawg and his stories/posts/threads.
MDawg Story/Picture True or Not... I do not care but many of you love the Wizard and he has proven time and time again that he supports MDawg.
So stick up for your pal.
He'd do it for you.
That's what friends are for!
AxelWolf is one of those big time pals and promoters of the Wizard... is he not??
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...42/#post807388
"Let the record show MDawg has privately shared with me an image of a casino cage check marked "Verified Win," dated very recently (late May 2021), that is low six figures."
- Quoted by Michael Shackleford, who is known as the Wizard of Odds, on this 23rd day of our Lord, in the Year of Two Thousand and Twenty One -
Last edited by monet; 05-23-2021 at 11:06 AM.
Not sure what is going on and don't really care. I guess Wizard is MDawg's puppet now. Maybe the Dog showed him how to mind meld with the baccarat deck. This shit is gettin' stupider by the day....lolOriginally Posted by monet
Gotta love it though.
I know Mike is your friend, but he can be a little gullible. And people can and do "play" him. I know he takes offense when I say that, but it has been proven to be true.Originally Posted by MaxPenNot sure what is going on and don't really care. I guess Wizard is MDawg's puppet now. Maybe the Dog showed him how to mind meld with the baccarat deck. This shit is gettin' stupider by the day....lolOriginally Posted by monet
Gotta love it though.
Some of these guys are very good at what they do, showing pictures of high end jewelry, chips, stacks of cash, a high end RV with one guy. The level of narcissism is off the charts.
I hope, I really do, that Mike has been duped and played, because the only other possibility is that he is complicit in this.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
I concur 100%.Originally Posted by kewlJI know Mike is your friend, but he can be a little gullible. And people can and do "play" him. I know he takes offense when I say that, but it has been proven to be true.Originally Posted by MaxPenNot sure what is going on and don't really care. I guess Wizard is MDawg's puppet now. Maybe the Dog showed him how to mind meld with the baccarat deck. This shit is gettin' stupider by the day....lolOriginally Posted by monet
Gotta love it though.
Some of these guys are very good at what they do, showing pictures of high end jewelry, chips, stacks of cash, a high end RV with one guy. The level of narcissism is off the charts.
I hope, I really do, that Mike has been duped and played, because the only other possibility is that he is complicit in this.
Why would the Wiz ever in the real world want to be "complicit" with the claims of douchedawg?
What's in it for the Wiz?
The notion that might be held by conspiracy theorists that the Wiz is being paid a lot of money in order to vouche for this braying jackass defies credulity.
Nor do I suspect the Wiz would pander to this jerkoff in order to get more forum traffic; what the hell would he care, he sold the forum years ago.
What, Me Worry?
Apparently this statement is being held out to be very significant:
"Let the record show MDawg has privately shared with me an image of a casino cage check marked "Verified Win," dated very recently (late May 2021), that is low six figures."
A memo on a check that says "verified win" does not necessarily mean the same thing as a player hitting a jackpot and getting a check for the jackpot amount.
In this case "verified win" could just be a return of the player's money from his own account.
The ONLY way to know is to CALL the casino cage in question and ask about their procedures.
"Verified win" might just be an accounting code for return of the player's own cash deposit, or money wired in.
I raised this point before and Mr Mdawg insists that the words "Verified win" means a profit. Sorry, I would not vouch for that unless I spoke to the cage and they verified that.
Originally Posted by MisterV
MrV, here's a question or two, "Has Shackleford ever actually in-the-field evaluated a tables game gambling claim or procedure and reported on it? Has he ever debunked an in-the-field table games gambling claim?"
I honestly don't know as I'm not a WoV aficionado, so I would be curious as to whether there are written reports on the forum regarding table games play evaluation in the field. I know years ago Shackleford reported on a video poker session with Singer, but video poker is a much easier evaluation and report. It's cut and dried and no other humans are involved.
As to motive, not everything in life is material (like hot babes, which some folks seem preoccupied with). But note that Wizard accepted $500 for no good reason to watch MDawg play, which seemed ridiculous, given that his claims are all over the site. Why not just volunteer for the good of the readership? And I did notice when it came to a recent requested game math analysis, Wizard said that it was the kind of thing he usually does for money. Now it's okay for that to be true, but why announce it on the site? Just say you don't have the time or something. It reads like your fishing for a gig.
Last edited by redietz; 05-23-2021 at 12:56 PM.
Originally Posted by AndrewG
I agree with Andrew. For example, a check for winnings in the WSOP could be memo'ed "Verified Win," and that certainly doesn't account for the cost of entering. The same could be true in this case.
Plus, just being practical and real-world about it, if you lose your ass to a casino over time, I would think a host would bend over backwards to get you a "Verified Winnings" memo line that you could show family and friends who might not approve of your gambling debauchery. I would think that kind of memo would be a commonplace cover that helps both the player and the host.
For the record, back when MDawg and I were on better terms, I told him publicly and privately that I had no real problem with someone doing message massaging on forums to keep family and friends who don't approve of their gambling off their back. If he wanted to create a kind of ongoing log that demonstrated some wins instead of losses, I'm cool with that. But when he went in the 40 out of 41 and "reading the flow of cards" direction, I told him he was way out of line and he was shooting himself in the foot if he was trying to convince family he was winning.
Last edited by redietz; 05-23-2021 at 01:01 PM.
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