The WoV Thread

[kewlJ]

You can't accept that MDawg won 100K playing a -EV game.

Lol. Well nothing we are talking about today proves or disproves that.

[kewlJ]

Since you, coach belly are going around in circles, I will too. Going to repeat this one.

"One dealer and pit boss the other day were saying though, how "rare" of a player I am, that I am both winning currently and a lifetime winner. But then that's the Adventures of MDawg. What kind of an adventure would it be if I were losing?"

Above is a rather interesting quote from Mdawg (page 538 of the Mdawg thread, time stamped 5/20 8:24am for coach belly who wants to know where everything came from). Take note of "What kind of adventure would it be if I were losing". That tells you everything you need to know about this who ordeal. It is about creating the illusion of winning.

Now here is a quote from 5/20 11:07am. "Every time I win, I shove the large denominations of the winner's chips into the zippered pouch of the winner's envelope and put it in a hotel safety deposit box, and cash out the under 100 sums, in ones and fives, to use as tips."

At this point, I don't think anyone is dsputing Mdawg is a big player. I will admit, I didn't think so earlier and have been proven wrong. The dispute is about all the winning and rarely any losing. So on winning days he shoves the chips in a bag rather than cashing out. And then presto...today he cashed out all those chips, received a check for 100 grand which he sent an image of to Wizard to again create the illusion of a massive win. The manipulation never ends.

And just for good measure, one more time: "What kind of adventure would it be if I were losing?" - Mdog-

That is ALL anyone needs to know about this whole ordeal. Game, Set, Match!

[coach belly]

You can't accept that MDawg won 100K playing a -EV game.

Lol. Well nothing we are talking about today proves or disproves that.

You're both in Vegas right now. Take his challenge and make him prove it.

[kewlJ]

You can't accept that MDawg won 100K playing a -EV game.

Lol. Well nothing we are talking about today proves or disproves that.

You're both in Vegas right now. Take his challenge and make him prove it.

Must be a bad batch of crack you are smoking.

[redietz]

Voila. You have a check for 100K.

The bettor will have won from whichever casino cuts the check.

If he bet both sides at the same store on the same account then there would be no check issued.

That's why this scenario does not apply to MDawg, whose action is at the same casino.

In your scenario I suspect that the CTRs and/or STRs would expose
the bettor to government scrutiny, if the bets are made with cash.

Just ask the Jelinski brothers.

No, coach, you are once again wrong.

I didn't go into all of the permutations of this because I was hoping you'd be able to figure some wrinkles out, but not gonna happen

So, being a nice guy, I will spell some of the more obvious wrinkles out for you.

Since various casinos fall under the same aegis, and since numbers vary not just by shop but over time, you can actually do this in a way that the same casino is paying you regardless of who wins. Checks will be issued.

In addition, since sports bets can be made without necessarily showing up on an account (happens all the time, especially during major events like boxing matches and Super Bowls), the wagers can actually generate two different checks at the same place in the event of a push and win or middle. Or even with multiple wagers by the same person. No rule that you can't get multiple checks. And, by the way, those major events wagers are usually made with cash.

I suggest you stick to free play analysis. You gamble in New Jersey. I get it. You think you know what you're doing, but you really don't. Atlantic City is a half step above Laughlin, but with somewhat brighter lights and more ethnically diverse hookers.

I mean, really, why do you insist on arguing about stuff you know absolutely nothing about?

[coach belly]

sports bets can be made without necessarily showing up on an account

None of what you have written above applies to MDawg playing HL Bac.

And there is zero chance that any 50K cash bet will be accepted without ID.

If you disagree, then we can wager on it.

Put up or shut up...but you'll never do either.

[Advantageplay]

you are telling me that when Charles Barkley, or Michael Jorden are playing blackjack for $50,000 a hand as it has been reported and they have a winning night, maybe cahing out at $500k or a million dollars, they are paid in cash?

What are you thinking, that these guys buy in with suitcases full of cash?

They pull markers, they pay their markers, and if they win then they can receive a check.

But they can't buy in for 500K in cash, break even and convert that cash to a check.

Are you sure that you know anything about how casinos work?

Can you prove that you do, because right now it sounds like you're clueless.

Here is how you get a check for 100 k, you take markers out daily .... you pay them off with cash even when you break even. You store the chips upstairs like he claims. He has already said he stores them up. When you go to cash out all markers are paid. They mark it winnings. I have personally done this before so any rebuttal to the contrary is completely
Inaccurate. Mdawg had already said he had a 100k chip. If he paid off his markers with cash daily and kept the chips he will go to cage with 100k plus and they will give him a check.... 1 million percent fact

[regnis]

I would not vouch for that unless I spoke to the cage and they verified that.

Would you be willing to meet MDawg to verify the meaning of the check's memo at the cage?

Pardon my table games naivete, but how could the cage possibly know whether someone won or lost on a particular day?

I don't know much of anything about table games, but it seems as if the cage would have to go through every video of every table game to ascertain if cash was used to buy in at any given table. Then the cage would have to verify that no stashed chips (used frequently by blackjack and poker players) from previous visits were inserted into the equation. If this is incorrect, please lay it out for me.

And, since I have gotten casino checks in the past not quite the size of MDawg's but in the ballpark, I actually have some experience with requesting notations. And my experiences have been very interesting. Before relating my experiences, which might indeed be different from MDawg's but are certainly valid examples, I'll let coach offer some of his theories to see if he gets
anything correct.

So I don’t get involved in these discussions much anymore, but I do have a lot of experience with this. When I would go to the cashier with a large amount of chips, they would ask where I won them. I would tell them the craps pit and they would then call the craps pit for verification. I once got into a little trouble trying to split the chips between a Bally’s cashier and the Paris cage. They watch the yellows pretty closely.

I often times did request a check and never had a problem, even if it included my buy in and was not just winnings. Most of the time it was winnings because I am a marker player and those are paid when cashing in at the table. But I also played with cash quite a bit and getting a check was not a problem

[coach belly]

Here is how you get a check for 100 k, you take markers out daily .... you pay them off with cash even when you break even. You store the chips upstairs like he claims.

Don't they hold the marker outside of the drop box so that you pay markers off
with whatever chips you have before you leave the table?

I am a marker player and those are paid when cashing in at the table.

[coach belly]

I often times did request a check and never had a problem, even if it included my buy in

What was the biggest cash buy-in that they converted to a check at the cage?

[Advantageplay]

[QUOTE=coach belly;127205]

Here is how you get a check for 100 k, you take markers out daily .... you pay them off with cash even when you break even. You store the chips upstairs like he claims.

Don't they hold the marker outside of the drop box so that you pay markers off
with whatever chips you have before you leave the table?
They normally hold the marker for 1 hour or so unless you request they Hold it longer (not sure I remember exactly how long pit holds it but it wasn’t all that long )once they drop it then you can go to the cage and settle it with cash or chips

[regnis]

Coach—-I honestly can’t say because it never was an issue so I never even gave it a thought. But my buy ins were usually $3500 - $5000 and could involve multiple buy ins. But always kept the total under $10000. So if I had a couple 3500”s, the 3rd, if any, would be 3,000 max.
So I guess the answer to your question is anywhere from 3500 to 9500.

[redietz]

sports bets can be made without necessarily showing up on an account

None of what you have written above applies to MDawg playing HL Bac.

And there is zero chance that any 50K cash bet will be accepted without ID.

If you disagree, then we can wager on it.

Put up or shut up...but you'll never do either.

Coach, you basically have no idea what you're talking about. If you think every 50K wager requires an ID check, you are incorrect.

[coach belly]

But always kept the total under $10000.

Is it likely that a player could or would pay off 100K in table markers
with cash at the cage in order to later cash out 100K in chips for a check?

If the player was staying on-site, would the casino let him get away with that?

[coach belly]

Coach, you basically have no idea what you're talking about. If you think every 50K wager requires an ID check, you are incorrect.

Fuck off loser. I defy you to lay down a 50K cash bet at any casino without ID.

[Advantageplay]

He has stated multiple times he throws chips in bag, the will let you pay off with cash any time you like. I have paid 25-50k markers in cash.

[AndrewG]

But always kept the total under $10000.

Is it likely that a player could or would pay off 100K in table markers
with cash at the cage in order to later cash out 100K in chips for a check?

If the player was staying on-site, would the casino let him get away with that?

I have no personal experience with this but I know players who take large markers, pay them back, then take new markers and pay them back and take a check for any overall profits.

Why would you think it's a problem to take out and repay multiple markers and take a check for profits?

[coach belly]

He has stated multiple times he throws chips in bag, the will let you pay off with cash any time you like. I have paid 25-50k markers in cash.

No you did not if you walked away from the table with 50K in chips.

[redietz]

Coach, you basically have no idea what you're talking about. If you think every 50K wager requires an ID check, you are incorrect.

Fuck off loser. I defy you to lay down a 50K cash bet at any casino without ID.

LOL. Coach, you picked 50K as a threshold because I never mentioned making those size wagers. On those occasions when I've needed to make a 50K bet, I've spread it for various and sundry reasons. But I can speak for the 10K through 40K range.

You have a naive understanding of sports betting. Many, if not most, people making the 50K or more bets are known to, but not formally tracked, by sports books. Asking for ID from any of those people is akin to an insult.

Now, for the protocols for bets in the 100K or 200K range, I'd suggest you ask somebody familiar with that stuff. I do happen to know one, who will go unnamed. I think regnis knows who-of I speak.

[regnis]

But always kept the total under $10000.

Is it likely that a player could or would pay off 100K in table markers
with cash at the cage in order to later cash out 100K in chips for a check?

If the player was staying on-site, would the casino let him get away with that?

Coach—I can’t state what the rules are at each casino so I can only go by experience. I was not allowed to cash out at a table without having the chips pay the markers. Any winnings were then cashed at the cage. I admit that I pocketed a few chips more than a few times so that I was just under the marker amount and would then be able to cash the chips at the cage and keep the markers alive. I then had cash to play at a casino at which I didn’t have credit or usually, to play horses.
So I couldn’t really accumulate chips without paying the markers much beyond that. If someone could, I really don’t know if they could then get a check.