The WoV Thread

[monet]

I'm not knocking nor do I care if its public or private. I just find it funny to read about how big of a deal or problem it has become. I also stand corrected by Mr V and his wisdom about APs and Sin City. Remember... this is my world your talking about. Not only do I know some of these people from personal interactions but I know many of them from third party interactions. However, once again I am proven wrong by a gentleman who lives in Oregon.

[Bill Yung]

While I don't know quite why the wiz is requiring this level of secrecy I must assume it is threat-based, and nobody needs to be worrying about some crazy fucker attacking them from behind while attending a social gathering such as this.

Mysteries, whether solved, invoke a sense of euphoria; a bit of push-back reinforces the false sense that we are right. More like, we have met the nuts, and they are us.

[Prozema]

I've not been reading the spring fling thread. What is the preceived threat?

[kewlJ]

I am wondering if the "perceived" threat is me.

Several weeks ago Axelwolf and I traded some PM's about how Mike's "good friend" Qfit has once again, disappeared from WoV, more or less proving he had no intention of continuing participation at WoV, and that his only real interest was to manipulate Mike into silencing me. So I made some comment like now 2 years later isn't it time for Mike to admit what everyone already knows and resolve this situation and said maybe the WoV spring fling would be a good way to patch things up and move forward.

Alex responded that he was sure Mike would welcome me to attend spring fling as other non-members had attended in the past. My response to that was no I would not attend as a non-member. If Mike wanted to resolve this 2 year ordeal and attempt to move forward, that I would consider attending (as a reinstated member). I should note that I have 'considered' attending these types of meet-ups before on various sites and each time have decided not to as the time drew closer. I am not sure that wouldn't have occurred here as well. I would have had to really consider it.

So of course, I heard nothing from Mike, nor any more from Axel. My guess is Axelwolf was speaking out of turn for Mike, when he said Mike would welcome me at spring-fling and upon hearing that I might be willing to attend (as a members of WoV), Mike somehow feels threatened that I will crash the party, despite that I made it pretty clear I would only consider attending as a reinstated member of WoV.

A similar type thing played out back in October, when I was going through my heart surgery ordeal. After I made my post here sharing that I was heading for emergency heart surgery, I received a PM from Axel saying he had mentioned my medical situation to Mike. I didn't ask that of him, nor expect that, but that was fine. Anyway, Axel's PM said I should expect a post by Mike at WoV, informing the WoV members of my situation and wishing me well. Ok, that was nice. I had a lot going on right then, so didn't think too much about it, but thought maybe after I got home and things settled down, and I began to feel better, that might be the thing that could open the door to communication and who knows.

However, I never saw such a post. I am pretty sure I didn't miss it, even though I was pretty out of it for the better part of a week. Again, I am assuming either Axel misspoke for Mike or Mike changed his mind. Just part of an ongoing ordeal of things said by or on behalf of Mr. Shackleford, that don't come to fruition.

[jbjb]

All of this drama would make for an interesting episode of Dr. Phil.

[kewlJ]

All of this drama would make for an interesting episode of Dr. Phil.

I can understand you and others viewing it as "drama". But, I view it more as an ongoing look into the flawed character of Mike.

The great and powerful Wizard is just not who or how he portrays himself. He is not a man of integrity. He is petty and vindictive. He has a massive ego and is obsessed with what people think of him. So much so, that he can't admit when he was wrong (as in this case). I guess I should amend that to say that he can't admit publicly, because he admitted it privately almost from the day he took the action. He knows he was wrong. He has known that from day 1 or maybe day 2. But he just can't bring himself to say so publicly and fix his wrong. He thinks that will diminish him in the eyes of the minions that worship him. The 'great and powerful' is really a very small person. Great mathematician. Maybe a good AP, I don't know. Success (with some good fortune) in building and selling his business....but a very small person.

Edit: It was told to me by...well someone at least fairly close to Wiz, that his issue isn't admitting he was wrong, it is admitting that Qfit used and manipulated him. That is the perception that Mike desperately will not admit. At one point, back on gambling forums, when I was posting a great deal about this ordeal, I was warned by this person not to continue to say that Mike had been "used or manipulated". THAT is the truth Mike really can't deal with or just can't handle.

[jbjb]

I guess my point would be having all of the various jaded characters and their situations airing their grievances to each other on camera in front of an audience instead of with words on an internet message board.

[kewlJ]

I guess my point would be having all of the various jaded characters and their situations airing their grievances to each other on camera in front of an audience instead of with words on an internet message board.

Maybe Las Vegas gambling/AP community TV.

Just think of the programming lineup.

An interview show with some former washed up TV reporter interviewing a guy who magically bucks the trend and wins while playing negative EV video poker. (wins Sooo much that he lives in a camper and steals other people's electricity and internet)

A 'twilight zone' type show featuring 18 y.o.'s in a row.

A people court show for all the disputes.

Just a few of the ideas.

[redietz]

I have never understood the cache in being king of the frat, which is basically what this all looks like. So now the frat party is a secret, kind of like Nathan Detroit's floating crap game.

Maybe the frat should have a name. Just thinking out loud. Something that reflects all of the pseudo-expertise and lowball gambling.

[LarryS]

The great and powerful Wizard is just not who or how he portrays himself. He is not a man of integrity. He is petty and vindictive. He has a massive ego and is obsessed with what people think of him. So much so, that he can't admit when he was wrong (as in this case). I guess I should amend that to say that he can't admit publicly, because he admitted it privately almost from the day he took the action. He knows he was wrong. He has known that from day 1 or maybe day 2. But he just can't bring himself to say so publicly and fix his wrong. He thinks that will diminish him in the eyes of the minions that worship him. The 'great and powerful' is really a very small person. Great mathematician. Maybe a good AP, I don't know. Success (with some good fortune) in building and selling his business....but a very small person....KJ


Are you kidding?
He openly portrays himself through his actions as a petty person and the remaining people at wov enjoy that, accept that, compliment that.
He presents himself as a sick fuck...who proclaims that he suspends people to soften his bad moods...and the remaining people there have no problem with that. Not one member or mod challenged that philosophy
He is a person who enjoys shaming people as he feels that the suspension list is a shaming device and should not be dismantled. And the remaining folks nod their heads in unison
He is insensitive to the constructive comments of others, using the "dont let the door hit you" numerous times....and the people who remain on wov parrot that phrase in agreement with their master.
He treats women as pieces of meat, as scenery, and material items......while at the same time treating his wife with disrespect and negative comments...portraying her as a ball and chain publicly ....and the remaining members adore him.

He openly is this person I describe....its out there for all to see. Its not that he is fooling anyone. Its just that the remaining folks at wov, likes this type of person. They like to see vindictive punishment. They cheer it. The compliment it. They love to hear him mock his wife. Those are the type of folks that inhabit munchkinland. They love to hear others be told to love it or leave it. They love reading a married man with kids write about hooking up with a prostitute as a sight seeing guide. He is not hiding it. Its the remaining members that view his behavior as quite acceptable . These are a bunch of socially backward people putting another socially backward person up on a pedestal. And praying at his alter.
Now granted, what we see may just be the tip of the iceberg. But I think enough has been openly shown publicly to make the average well raised person view him as disgusting, and not someone who deserves patronage of the business he helps run for a salary.

[jbjb]

Yeah, some of us do like the "death penalty"

[pepe]

I guess my point would be having all of the various jaded characters and their situations airing their grievances to each other on camera in front of an audience instead of with words on an internet message board.

see if Tonka Saw or Andy Warski wants to host it on their Youtube shows

[monet]

jbjb or Pepe or others can change the subject any time they like. They could start their very own thread about how to make some easy money in the Casinos. They could make a thread discussing gambling but no, they just enjoy reading everyone's ideas or posts or opinions and reply with sarcastic one or two liners which are easy enough to skip over and not respond to. Most people don't respond to them but I like to give anyone a fair shot at getting involved in the conversation. So I and others keep waiting for better and more informative posts from members like this. Personally, I like them and believe they can and will show us better in the very near future.

[jbjb]

I've mentioned how I play in casinos. I have no interest in creating more competition.

[LarryS]

I think they are doing the best they can. This is what they are capable of posting. Nothing more. Sometimes you
have to pat them on the head, say "goodboy" and move on.

[jbjb]

I think they are doing the best they can. This is what they are capable of posting. Nothing more. Sometimes you
have to pat them on the head, say "goodboy" and move on.

And some of us just laugh at others.

[monet]

I am wondering if the "perceived" threat is me.

Several weeks ago Axelwolf and I traded some PM's about how Mike's "good friend" Qfit has once again, disappeared from WoV, more or less proving he had no intention of continuing participation at WoV, and that his only real interest was to manipulate Mike into silencing me. So I made some comment like now 2 years later isn't it time for Mike to admit what everyone already knows and resolve this situation and said maybe the WoV spring fling would be a good way to patch things up and move forward.

Alex responded that he was sure Mike would welcome me to attend spring fling as other non-members had attended in the past. My response to that was no I would not attend as a non-member. If Mike wanted to resolve this 2 year ordeal and attempt to move forward, that I would consider attending (as a reinstated member). I should note that I have 'considered' attending these types of meet-ups before on various sites and each time have decided not to as the time drew closer. I am not sure that wouldn't have occurred here as well. I would have had to really consider it.

So of course, I heard nothing from Mike, nor any more from Axel. My guess is Axelwolf was speaking out of turn for Mike, when he said Mike would welcome me at spring-fling and upon hearing that I might be willing to attend (as a members of WoV), Mike somehow feels threatened that I will crash the party, despite that I made it pretty clear I would only consider attending as a reinstated member of WoV.

A similar type thing played out back in October, when I was going through my heart surgery ordeal. After I made my post here sharing that I was heading for emergency heart surgery, I received a PM from Axel saying he had mentioned my medical situation to Mike. I didn't ask that of him, nor expect that, but that was fine. Anyway, Axel's PM said I should expect a post by Mike at WoV, informing the WoV members of my situation and wishing me well. Ok, that was nice. I had a lot going on right then, so didn't think too much about it, but thought maybe after I got home and things settled down, and I began to feel better, that might be the thing that could open the door to communication and who knows.

However, I never saw such a post. I am pretty sure I didn't miss it, even though I was pretty out of it for the better part of a week. Again, I am assuming either Axel misspoke for Mike or Mike changed his mind. Just part of an ongoing ordeal of things said by or on behalf of Mr. Shackleford, that don't come to fruition.

Alright, so here we go. KewlJ gives up a little information about the big bad wolf and I will share as well. This is how chain reactions go. One person leaks this and so on and so forth until the avalanche comes rolling down the mountain and everyone involved is buried with no chance of escape. I like to read. I feel I have some decent comprehension when reading. I also like to research. When I debate I believe the best way to debate others is to use their own words against them. So I have read plenty of the posts by AW and all the top dogs/wolves over at WoV and on this site. It isn't tough to see when they contradict themselves or it isn't hard to read their stories of the glory days and show them how evil they really are. This could of all been avoided if they wouldn't claim this honesty, morality, ethical nonsense so hard or if they wouldn't get so greedy in expanding their teams all over the place. Anytime you see someone mention a state or a website or place all you see is AW asking... hey let me know if you need help or how are you beating those rebates? It is literally plastered all over WoV. You will see AW tell you stories of Flush Attack at the Circus Circus and how he had a partner who wasn't even legally able to be in the Casino and they would use two way radios to contact one another so AW could come and get the free money. Is this legal behavior? Is this moral or ethical or honesty playing against the Casino? I think not.

So let us go to my own personal experience in my meet up with AW and ZK. I got to the pool hall 40 minutes early to case the place out a bit and to set up the pool table and get a tab started because I figure one of these guys drink. ZK doesn't drink but AW drinks enough for all three of us and then some. No big deal. I've done the same but not DUIs or any mishaps when I was running wild like that. I beat the odds... so what... next issue. So when AW introduces himself to me I am thinking in my mind... mother f'er... this guy... ugh... I know all about this guy. I even ran into him twice but he really doesn't remember me. I am like that. I am good at being the wallpaper. So I wanted to leave at that moment because I knew this would go nowhere but ok let's meet this guy ZK who says all this crazy talk and see how real he is. I meet him and it is clear he is just starting out and younger. He really doesn't know what he wants in life just yet. Kinda paranoid about a lot of things because he reads stories and doesn't have the real world experience that is needed to make moves in the Casinos of LV.

The main problems with these two fellas is that they either had the information mixed up or they couldn't answer the direct questions being asked in a timely manner or in a manner that made clear, precise sense to anyone who understands anything in life. I asked ZenKing about his business model or ideas or his 5 year plan. He couldn't answer. He deflected the issue and basically said I don't know yet I just know I want to go into business. This will not suffice in the real world. Next, AW is going on and on about telling me how I have told him about this play and that play. He clearly has me confused with someone else but I go along with it. Next when we have had other dealings like text messages it is clear he sends me the wrong messages or doesn't realize who I am. Another major problem with people who either drink a lot or have such a large network of people to control he can't keep things straight because he doesn't know who he is talking to at times.

This ok because this type of team play or con is a contact sport. This means the more numbers you contact the greater chance you have to win. The other members want to have you believe that in Las Vegas that people don't have a problem with alcohol. Players like me and other long time players in LV laugh at these guys. The running joke is that they are drinking for a living. With players like me the running joke is.... where are you stealing from these days. All in good fun. I get it. Don't worry we are all stealing in one way or another in the professional underworld of AP. Players like me and the ones who kid me understand this.

Many more stories to tell about people falling down or falling asleep in my car incoherent from the good old Captain Morgan. Captain Morgan is an interesting read actually if you have time to study history and the privateers or the pirate ways of old.

[MisterV]

once again I am proven wrong by a gentleman who lives in Oregon.

WTF are you yakking about now? "APs and Sin City?

And another thing ...

I have little to post about gambling which you might find relevant because I am a recreational gambler who plays slots and craps.

I post on Las Vegas themed boards in part because gambling in general interests me, but more than that because the whole notion of Las Vegas both awes and baffles me.

See, I was a history major with a strong interest in and knowledge of what people have done in the past, and how that led us to where we are today.

But Las Vegas is an exception, an outlier, a unique Mormon started, mob-grown corporate run mirage in the stinking desert.

O, the humanity.

[LarryS]

Quote: Wizard

I was known as Simon the Likeable>>>>>>>> a coincidence but topical....the name of the person who wrote the guide to prostitutes posted earlier

[LarryS]

Monet, I have been to two of these and neither one involved excessive consumption of alcohol by anyone that I noticed.

All attendees were well behaved: if any had an alcohol problem it was not evident by their behavior.mr V

Uh, no, not really.

I've met her, she moves around just fine. <<<<mr V regarding BBB

VERY interesting. Monet makes a comments about alcohol and Aps based on decades of interaction. MrV makes a counter based on a handful of hours with people on their best behavior. Can an alcoholic behave for 2 hours? Sure.

As far as BBB, if he saw her walk to the rest room at a restaurant from a table or from a bar stool....I doubt he walked the equivalent of a few city blocks with her t see if she slowed down or got out of breath or had to rest.

Again a tiny cross section of time and activity.

But the biggest thing I get from this. Monet views himself as a hustler, a cheat, a bad person....so we have another mod hanging out and possibly beholden to a shady person.

So this type of activity is not unusual for the mods and members of wov.

This might be the reason why WoN was allowed to thrive on Wov. How many mods got their free rooms or bottles of wine and cigs from shady folks. How quiet they were during the WoN/mISSION thread. And dont tell me that the rules and suspensions arent different for those nice "giving" folks.

edit addition: if for example monet became a topicon wov as a "scammer"..do you think BBB would be vocal. Nope. Not after taking over 1000 in comps from him. Silence can be bought