The WoV Thread

[Mission146]

No, I don't agree with that. If I had my way, then you could just park in any spot that happens to be available at the time.

However, even if you want to make an argument that my assigned spot is an, "Entitlement," then it's an entitlement that I also happen to be paying for...so I should be able to get to my spot unencumbered. The driver of the truck is certainly not paying to park in the middle of the way and could also use one of the visitor parking spots for free, if one is available.

[Mission146]

If the subject is protocols, then I would think that not parking in a fashion that prevents access in or out would be a protocol. In fact, it would actually be a violation of the lease...so, that being the case, if I really wanted to be a, "Karen," I could have taken a picture of the situation and reported the resident to property management, the sort of thing that someone like you would do, but I prefer to handle my problems with other people directly.

[AxelWolf]

I debated on commenting on redietz's comments (included above), especially the "We do what Shackleford cannot do". I don't know what Shackleford does or doesn't do AP-wise to earn money and I don't know what kind of money he makes or has made because he doesn't share much of that. Hasn't it been like some 20 years since he left his job at social security? I don't know what he has done to earn money other than the publicized stint as a consultant at Venetian. Has there been more of that type of thing? I have no idea. Has APing been a big part of his income? again I have no idea.

I will say, I don't consider building and selling a website as "making a living at gambling". That is business. And good for him. I think he kind of lucked into that, but seriously good for him. Mission, would you consider a guy that owns and runs a shop selling baseball cards as making a living playing baseball?


I was going to let this go about redietz comment but since I am into it now, I am uncomfortable with my inclusion of doing something that Mike Shackleford can't. Even in my narrow field of expertise of card counting or even more specific, card counting in Las Vegas, there is nothing about the mathematics of card counting that I know that Shackleford doesn't and almost assuredly things he knows and understands that I don't. What I may have on him and others is I have learned how to apply what I know and play and still be welcome back to play again, and again. (well at least so far....we will see what next week brings ). I am quite sure if Mr. Shackleford wanted to apply himself to card counting and learning about the tolerance levels of what is needed for longevity, he could do everything I do. Like Most AP's, he has bigger fish to fry.

No, but the guy who invented Topps I would consider as, "Making a living on baseball."

Besides, as you point out, I don't know what he does on the AP side of things, but I know he does more than nothing. He's worked for The Venetian, sold the sites for more than a million bucks, works for the sites, has been contracted independently for gambling-related math work and has done a non-zero amount of advantage play. If he hasn't made a living gambling, then I don't know who has.

A professional gambler is someone who gamblers for a living, not someone who does any of the gambling related things you describe. By your definition, Rob Singer was a professional gambler because he wrote for Gambling Today (for free).

Again, I don't know what Shackleford does as far as actual gambling income. He hasn't shared that and that is his right, but not of these other things, including "building and selling" WoV/WoO qualifies as making a living via gambling.

I would assume Mike is ahead lifetime on his own gambling. I have involved him in a few things and I know all of those things have made money, there may have been somthing very small that was a dud. I'm significantly ahead when involved in his Superbowl prop betting, he hits it way harder than I do. (I didn't participate during his bridge jumpers, from my calculation he has since recovered from that ) I think he did well with the 1/2 parlays. IIRC there was table gameplay that didn't last long(a few hours) and we lost a little on that.


IIRC he mentioned investing in some card counting teams, and that didn't go too well(No Duh!!!!) I have no clue how much that investment cost him, but I assume it was a fair amount. Even so, if he's not a lifetime winner he will eventually be if he keeps dabbling here and there.

I don't think Mike is willing to do what it takes to be a successful full-time AP.

[coach belly]

No, I don't agree with that.

However, even if you want to make an argument that my assigned spot is an, "Entitlement,".

Are you arguing with me over whether or not you feel entitled to park in your assigned spot?

Which side of the debate are you taking? Are you entitled to park in your assigned spot or not?

[kewlJ]

I would assume Mike is ahead lifetime on his own gambling. I have involved him in a few things and I know all of those things have made money, there may have been somthing very small that was a dud. I'm significantly ahead when involved in his Superbowl prop betting, he hits it way harder than I do. (I didn't participate during his bridge jumpers, from my calculation he has since recovered from that ) I think he did well with the 1/2 parlays. IIRC there was table gameplay that didn't last long(a few hours) and we lost a little on that.


IIRC he mentioned investing in some card counting teams, and that didn't go too well(No Duh!!!!) I have no clue how much that investment cost him, but I assume it was a fair amount. Even so, if he's not a lifetime winner he will eventually be if he keeps dabbling here and there.

I don't think Mike is willing to do what it takes to be a successful full-time AP.

Interesting stuff. I would love to hear more about all of it just out of curiosity. In particular, the card counting teams. That didn't work for the usual reasons? Trust. Team players skimming (which reverts back to trust). ???

[AxelWolf]

The threat was made earlier in this thread...

If anyone figures out why I was suspended over there or who was responsible, let me know. I don't really care, but if it was gordo, I'm going to have to pay the guy a visit on principle.

So a good question is does the Wiz visit here or did someone report it to him?? We know one mod from there posts her occasionally, could he be the culprit?

And a threat that was obviously made in jest by RED on another forum is worthy of a Nuke but having a personal forum where you start threads bashing posters is OK with the Wiz.

Silly RED, perhaps he needed to pay Wizard to witness something he can’t talk about. Maybe that would have changed everything. Or if RED would have offered to bring along a paraplegic for Gordo to fuck he would have gotten a pass. Credit to Freddy for bringing up that gem from Gordon’s past.

I would be willing to give you 10 to 1 that someome reported it. And no, I dont have any inside information about the situation. You can tell he doesn't even follow WOV all that closely, I just can't imagine he's reading GF unless linked to somthing specific. The fact that he doesn't follow WOV that closely is one reason there are so many bad suspensions.

[coach belly]

If the subject is protocols, then I would think that not parking in a fashion that prevents access in or out would be a protocol. In fact, it would actually be a violation of the lease...so, that being the case, if I really wanted to be a, "Karen," I could have taken a picture of the situation and reported the resident to property management, the sort of thing that someone like you would do, but I prefer to handle my problems with other people directly.

That's an evasive answer.

I'll ask again, what's the protocol if your assigned spot is not available?

Maybe park in another spot? Or be a tattletale? Or challenge your neighbor to a fistfight over it?

From what you wrote, it wasn't even his vehicle blocking your way.

[Mission146]

Are you arguing with me over whether or not you feel entitled to park in your assigned spot?

Which side of the debate are you taking? Are you entitled to park in your assigned spot or not?

Define the word, "Entitled," as you are using it in the question.

From Google:

1.) The fact of having a right to something.

-My answer to that would be, "Sort of," except I'm not sure that you can call something, "A right," if you have to pay for it.

2.) The belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

-It would absolutely not qualify as an, "Entitlement," under this definition.

With that, let's look at the definition of Entitled:

believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

Okay, so no, because I'm not inherently deserving of the privilege, which is why you pay to have a parking spot. Anyone can pay to have one of the spots (if they are residents or family), so the fact that I have a spot is not, "Special treatment."

So, it doesn't seem to rise up to the level of, "Entitlement," though you could make the argument, were I not paying for the spot.

And, even if it did, then I certainly feel less entitled than the asshole who parks his truck in the middle of the way and blocks everything---who probably only feels that way because his son is a cop and he figures nobody is going to say anything about it.

[Tasha]

If the subject is protocols, then I would think that not parking in a fashion that prevents access in or out would be a protocol. In fact, it would actually be a violation of the lease...so, that being the case, if I really wanted to be a, "Karen," I could have taken a picture of the situation and reported the resident to property management, the sort of thing that someone like you would do, but I prefer to handle my problems with other people directly.

That's an evasive answer.

I'll ask again, what's the protocol if your assigned spot is not available?

Maybe park in another spot? Or be a tattletale? Or challenge your neighbor to a fistfight over it?

From what you wrote, it wasn't even his vehicle blocking your way.

Coach, you're STILL going on about the Parking Space thing? Most of us are already watching the Sequel to a highly anticipated movie. You are still stuck on the FIRST movie so to speak. Let the parking thing go...

[AxelWolf]

I would assume Mike is ahead lifetime on his own gambling. I have involved him in a few things and I know all of those things have made money, there may have been somthing very small that was a dud. I'm significantly ahead when involved in his Superbowl prop betting, he hits it way harder than I do. (I didn't participate during his bridge jumpers, from my calculation he has since recovered from that ) I think he did well with the 1/2 parlays. IIRC there was table gameplay that didn't last long(a few hours) and we lost a little on that.


IIRC he mentioned investing in some card counting teams, and that didn't go too well(No Duh!!!!) I have no clue how much that investment cost him, but I assume it was a fair amount. Even so, if he's not a lifetime winner he will eventually be if he keeps dabbling here and there.

I don't think Mike is willing to do what it takes to be a successful full-time AP.

Interesting stuff. I would love to hear more about all of it just out of curiosity. In particular, the card counting teams. That didn't work for the usual reasons? Trust. Team players skimming (which reverts back to trust). ???

I really dont know the details, it's somewhere on WOV. This was years ago. I really didn't need any details, I can only imagine all of the above but there's no way of really telling. I don't think you can just decide to start a big AP team and have it be successful. I'm not saying it can't ever work, I just think it would be rare for it to work. I think one has to add on slowly and it's best if it starts organically.

[Mission146]

If the subject is protocols, then I would think that not parking in a fashion that prevents access in or out would be a protocol. In fact, it would actually be a violation of the lease...so, that being the case, if I really wanted to be a, "Karen," I could have taken a picture of the situation and reported the resident to property management, the sort of thing that someone like you would do, but I prefer to handle my problems with other people directly.

That's an evasive answer.

I'll ask again, what's the protocol if your assigned spot is not available?

Maybe park in another spot? Or be a tattletale? Or challenge your neighbor to a fistfight over it?

From what you wrote, it wasn't even his vehicle blocking your way.

There is no protocol for that because there is no reason your spot should not be available. The closest thing to a protocol is, if there is a move-in or move-out, then you will be given a letter with a date and time and you will be assigned a temporary spot (by property management) to use while that is going on. Since the resident on the other side was not moving, there was no letter, hence no protocol.

Anyway, I can't park in another spot because someone else is paying for whatever spot that I might happen to choose, and more importantly, I'm not a total dickhead---except to those who are already being total dickheads.

There's no way that I was going to address him without cussing him out because I waited for a few seconds figuring the guy with the truck would start walking towards his truck in order to move it. I couldn't really just back out (and even if I had, would have to park the equivalent of two blocks away) because I would have had to go in reverse (which I'm not great at) for a couple hundred feet.

Obviously, what the truck should have done is just taken one of the other parking spots temporarily. I wouldn't even have cared that much if it had been my spot. The main thing that pissed me off was that he was blocking the way and I know that my other neighbors are too timid to even say anything at all to him---even if they wanted to get out.

[coach belly]

I certainly feel less entitled than the asshole who parks his truck in the middle of the way

Your "sort of" qualifier is confusing.

Are you stipulating that you are not entitled to park in the assigned spot that you paid for, that you feel less entitled than visitor who blocked access to your spot?

[coach belly]

Coach, you're STILL going on about the Parking Space thing?

It's a dialogue, not a monologue.

[Mission146]

I certainly feel less entitled than the asshole who parks his truck in the middle of the way

Your "sort of" qualifier is confusing.

Are you stipulating that you are not entitled to park in the assigned spot that you paid for, that you feel less entitled than visitor who blocked access to your spot?

I'm stipulating that the spot itself is not an entitlement, by virtue of the fact that I directly pay to have the spot.

Therefore, access to that spot is not a right; it is a privilege. However, it's not an inherent privilege because, once again, I am paying to have it. You suggesting that it is an entitlement is like saying that my expectation that nobody will be standing at my front door trying to block me from getting in is an entitlement. The word simply doesn't apply.

[coach belly]

there is no reason your spot should not be available.

If your spot wasn't available, then there was certainly a reason for that condition.

Can you think of any reason whatsoever why your assigned parking spot would not be available?

For instance...an emergency, a food delivery, a welfare visit, some other innocent parking indiscretion?

[coach belly]

I'm stipulating that the spot itself is not an entitlement, by virtue of the fact that I directly pay to have the spot.

Are you entitled to park in the assigned spot that you paid for?

[Mission146]

Yeah, some asshole was blocking the way. I thought I had already established that.

I said that there is no reason your spot should not be available. I went on to specify the only condition, per your request, by which there is a protocol due to the spot being unavailable.

There actually is a protocol for food delivery, which is that you meet the driver at the driver's vehicle so that they are blocking one of the ways for as short a period of time as possible. Again, my story pre-established that this was not a food delivery, but a social visit---though not a welfare visit.

In the event of an emergency, then there would obviously be an emergency vehicle---which this truck was not---and I would not have reacted the way that I did.

In fact, I wouldn't have reacted the way I did if the guy saw me and made any effort whatsoever to approach his truck in order to move it, which is what someone who isn't a complete asshole would do. Actually, someone who's not a complete asshole wouldn't have had his truck there to begin with.

This is where you say that someone who isn't a complete asshole wouldn't cuss people out over such a thing, which is fair, but I am a complete asshole sometimes...almost always as a direct response to someone else being a complete asshole.

[Mission146]

I'm stipulating that the spot itself is not an entitlement, by virtue of the fact that I directly pay to have the spot.

Are you entitled to park in the assigned spot that you paid for?

Again, it depends on how you are using the word. That's why I asked you to define the word as you are using it. "Entitled," has become something of a loaded word.

[Mission146]

Also, it has nothing to do with the spot itself. I would say that everyone who lives here is entitled to not have trucks blocking the way.

As I mentioned, I wouldn't have cared if he had been parked in my spot. Mildly annoyed, but I'd have just driven around for five minutes and then said something if he was still there. I probably would have been polite.

[Mission146]

Before you ask, I would not have to go in reverse if he had been in my spot. There's more than enough room to turn around at the end of the way. There's just not enough room to actually get to the end if there's a truck in the middle of the way.

In fact, had the truck not been almost directly in the middle, then there would be enough room for most other vehicles (including mine) to get around it.