The WoV Thread

[Rob.Singer]

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

There was no "epic fail." It is really, really lame to say "was proven this" or "was labeled that" when the person doing the labeling or saying or allegedly proving is the author himself. Really lame.

I don't know kewlJ from Adam. I have no idea if he is who he says or supports himself playing blackjack. But I can tell you that counting two tables is possible.

I measured the distances myself and plopped my butt in various middle seats at the Flamingo, and Harrah's, and elsewhere, and I can see the cards with my lousy eyes well enough to tell what they are, given I have an angle of view. For those tables at longer distances, I wouldn't recommend it, but even I can tell "pips from paint." Not my jargon, because I know nothing. So anyway, the cards can be counted unless obstructed.

Now can someone count two games simultaneously? Not unless they've counted before. That's about the only restriction.

So why lie about the clarity of cards at distances at the Flamingo, or Harrah's, or about the difficulty of counting two decks simultaneously? Who knows? Ask Argentino.

If anybody is interested, walk into any of these casinos with a tape measure, a deck of cards, sit at tables, and figure out at what distance you can identify the cards. Easy enough to get to truth of the matter. My eyes are pretty bad. If I can do it, clarity is not an issue. Counting is not an issue. Obstruction of two particular seats is the only issue.

I'll do it again this week at other casinos. It's real tough to actually sit at a table, measure the distance, and figure out if you can see cards. Takes all of 10 minutes.

There is an interesting variance in lighting, so that plays into clarity occasionally. I don't have a light meter, so I can't report on that. Maybe Argentino can do some leg work and use his engineering background to report on the lighting.

Red, you're so invested in a hatred of me that you let your blind anxiety get the better of you as you flew off in another one of your "anti-Argentino" rages without ever reading the entirety of what was said.

You claim to be able to count two tables because where you went offered unobstructed views of the tables next door. Big Whoop! In the real world you know that ain't happening--just as simultaneous deals and simultaneous card showings ARE happening--which when these facts were brought up it caused Kew to suddenly announce that AN ACCURATE COUNT WAS NOT NECESSARY. Get it? And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at your table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count was bad you'd do far better to stick it out that switch. Kew claims he doesn't like to bring attention to himself.

And there you have it. Be more "accurate" next time.

[redietz]

I'll give you some grief over the DI thing regnis

Right off the bat Frank Scoblete sells it so it has to be impossible. If it were real and attainable, he and all the other shysters would simply use it for profiting in the casinos and not advertise and sell classes for it.

I still don't understand how there can be any "control" or "influence" of any kind, with all those things sticking out of the back wall where your dice are required to hit. And please don't tell me that a "close guess" is good enuf. We were treated to that kind of BS by kew after his two table counting claim was labeled an epic fail and pure nonsense as soon as he regurgitated that the 2nd table count need not be accurate.

There was no "epic fail." It is really, really lame to say "was proven this" or "was labeled that" when the person doing the labeling or saying or allegedly proving is the author himself. Really lame.

I don't know kewlJ from Adam. I have no idea if he is who he says or supports himself playing blackjack. But I can tell you that counting two tables is possible.

I measured the distances myself and plopped my butt in various middle seats at the Flamingo, and Harrah's, and elsewhere, and I can see the cards with my lousy eyes well enough to tell what they are, given I have an angle of view. For those tables at longer distances, I wouldn't recommend it, but even I can tell "pips from paint." Not my jargon, because I know nothing. So anyway, the cards can be counted unless obstructed.

Now can someone count two games simultaneously? Not unless they've counted before. That's about the only restriction.

So why lie about the clarity of cards at distances at the Flamingo, or Harrah's, or about the difficulty of counting two decks simultaneously? Who knows? Ask Argentino.

If anybody is interested, walk into any of these casinos with a tape measure, a deck of cards, sit at tables, and figure out at what distance you can identify the cards. Easy enough to get to truth of the matter. My eyes are pretty bad. If I can do it, clarity is not an issue. Counting is not an issue. Obstruction of two particular seats is the only issue.

I'll do it again this week at other casinos. It's real tough to actually sit at a table, measure the distance, and figure out if you can see cards. Takes all of 10 minutes.

There is an interesting variance in lighting, so that plays into clarity occasionally. I don't have a light meter, so I can't report on that. Maybe Argentino can do some leg work and use his engineering background to report on the lighting.

Red, you're so invested in a hatred of me that you let your blind anxiety get the better of you as you flew off in another one of your "anti-Argentino" rages without ever reading the entirety of what was said.

You claim to be able to count two tables because where you went offered unobstructed views of the tables next door. Big Whoop! In the real world you know that ain't happening--just as simultaneous deals and simultaneous card showings ARE happening--which when these facts were brought up it caused Kew to suddenly announce that AN ACCURATE COUNT WAS NOT NECESSARY. Get it? And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at your table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count was bad you'd do far better to stick it out that switch. Kew claims he doesn't like to bring attention to himself.

And there you have it. Be more "accurate" next time.

Argentino, have you actually consulted any blackjack books regarding this? An exact count is not necessary. "Accurate" has a range of meanings. Certainly, the count has to be ballpark, so in that sense it has to "accurate." But it does not have to "exact" or "precise."

I defer to anyone who has ever played blackjack to explain what is wrong with the sentences, "And even an 8th grader knows that if you have an accurate count going at one table then you'd never get up and go to one where guessing is involved. And even if your table's count is bad you'd do far better to stick it out than switch."

I hope after reading the above, you realize what you wrote is wrong.

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

[Alan Mendelson]

I love it when I hear an accurate count is not necessary in blackjack. So... how many rolls of the dice do I need to be a good DI? And if an accurate count is not needed in blackjack what's the acceptable range in craps?

[blackhole]

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

When did you become a reliable source of information about BJ APing?

Shouldn't you be busy collecting 6 figure sports winnings from off shore illegal banking gambling sites?

[mickeycrimm]

I'm not sure what you're saying, and which machines you're referring to. I don't know on slots (I'm guessing your reply refers to slots and not vp because you mentioned a "designed hold"), but on the vp machines there's a page on the menu that brings up "coin in" (say 3,567,418) and "coin out" (say 3,194,202). These are actual numbers converted to the machine's lowest denomination.

This is what I was told at South Point anyway. Seems to make sense.

A typical penny slot will have five betting levels. If it's 60 cents, $1.20, $1.80, $2.40, $3, then when you make a 60 cent bet the coin-in meter will click up 60 pennies. If you make a $1.20 bet it will click up 120 pennies, etc.

We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

[Rob.Singer]

A typical penny slot will have five betting levels. If it's 60 cents, $1.20, $1.80, $2.40, $3, then when you make a 60 cent bet the coin-in meter will click up 60 pennies. If you make a $1.20 bet it will click up 120 pennies, etc.

We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

Something else you can be proud of....

I was trained by the govt to handle two or three at a time back then, or one armed assailant. None of that really matters though, because a bar room brawler would much more than likely be impaired, stupid, and undisciplined. You to a tee.

I've ended two professionals in two fights back then overseas. What's your score against drunks?

[Rob.Singer]

I'm not even going to pile on regarding this, as you do not play blackjack.

When did you become a reliable source of information about BJ APing?

Shouldn't you be busy collecting 6 figure sports winnings from off shore illegal banking gambling sites?

He isn't. He's just pretending because Alan got under his skin over this. And can't you just wait for redietz to come up with these six pros lurking on the streets of LV for his reality TV show? It's a good bet he's talking about bus drivers.

Oh, you can forget about him explaining those six figure overseas illegal accounts also. You might have missed where he already did a lousy job trying to talk his way out of it.

Red, do you know how foolish you sound by claiming the count need not be accurate? Do you know how tiny the advantage is with a 100% accurate count? And if you miss even one hand at the table next door, you have zero idea how far off your count is. This is not hand grenades, horseshoes, or an apple pie throwing contest. But I understand--the "AP" could still pile up the phantom bucks when he has "his best day of the year" losing $9700 this time.

[mickeycrimm]

Had an interesting conversation on the phone today with a gaming enforcement agent.

First, I called the NGC explaining my request for direction to regulations on slot machine hold information. She transferred me to enforcement and I was contacted with a very kind gentleman who appeared in no hurry to blow me off the phone. In fact, I explained quickly the AP claims on forums and how I was usually a doubtful naysayer. He laughed and seemed engaged in my conversation.

I asked him about the hold on slot machines and if a slot attendant could while inside a machine expose that information on the screen. The answer was yes. He said there are all different types of machines and some may have that access while plenty also won’t while scrolling through different tabs by a slot attendant. Changing the preset hold is not possible. That requires a different type of access into the machine.

I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.

I asked about knowing when to play must hit jackpot machines. He said it’s not that hard to figure out when it would be an advantage to play those type machines, but you still need luck. He explained how you’ll see AP teams come and try to take a bank of jackpot machines, but they also need luck. He said he saw cases where 8 team players were banging away and one of the two regulars ending up hitting it.

I asked about making enough money beating machines to make a living off of it. He laughed and said what type of living are we talking about? I responded with a respectable one, you know, house, car, college tuition, retirement, health care, vacations etc. He laughed again and said of course anything is possible. He said those stories are like fishing stories. Every once in awhile someone does catch the big one. The ability to pull that off is not an enforcement concern.

He then volunteered more conversation, saying casino offerings to attract customers create many issues. I asked for details, and all he said was the issues were caused by the casinos marketing department not the machines. In several cases enforcement gets called in. He said nothing about player cards and I certainly didn’t either.

He went on to say AP exists and all casinos are aware of it. His department doesn’t usually get involved unless their contacted by the casinos or players and cheating is suspected.

That was pretty much it from what I remember. We actually threw the bull for a little while. I was impressed when he brought up the AP teams, which I guess means they see it happening and don’t care.

edit to add: We talked about the Phil Ivey baccarat move, and his response was shame on the casinos.

Casinos don't like teams. Never have and never will. Tuna Lund got pitched out of several places for running his team in them. But he was a total monopolizer. One of the things learned over the years was not to monopolize all the machines on a progressive to keep the heat off.

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

[mickeycrimm]

We finally agree on something....besides Hillary.

I'm not agreeing with what Alan seems to be saying but it might be because I'm not understanding him. When there's a page showing coin in & coin out on the menu inside the VP machine, a simple calculation does indeed provide the actual hold of the machine. This, and what I said above, is exactly what I was told at SP.

This also would corroborate how the analyses were done after the FPDW etc. 25c/50c/$1 I got put into Wynn around 2005 were removed. I was there when they were recording coin in & coin out, and that's what they used for their analysis of the overall profit they made (aka, hold)--which I wrote an article about in GT that was first approved by Wynn mgmt.

That was 13 years ago, but the menu on those machines looked exactly the same as the menu I saw on the machine I assaulted at SP.

I've got plenty of experience and training. I'm a veteran bar room brawler....which MMA is based on. Rob, you would run for the hills at the sight of some of the guys I fought. I wouldn't consider it a fair fight unless there were three of you.

Something else you can be proud of....

I was trained by the govt to handle two or three at a time back then, or one armed assailant. None of that really matters though, because a bar room brawler would much more than likely be impaired, stupid, and undisciplined. You to a tee.

I've ended two professionals in two fights back then overseas. What's your score against drunks?

C'mon, Robbie. I wouldn't even hit ya. I'd just grab you by the back of your neck and slam your face into the floor. Takes care of the nose, teeth, blackeyes, everything.

[monet]

I asked about making enough money beating machines to make a living off of it. He laughed and said what type of living are we talking about? I responded with a respectable one, you know, house, car, college tuition, retirement, health care, vacations etc. He laughed again and said of course anything is possible. He said those stories are like fishing stories. Every once in awhile someone does catch the big one. The ability to pull that off is not an enforcement concern.

Alan... Thanks for correcting me about the craps tables. I thought the old ones had slate. However that wasn't my point. I was just saying that some tables seemed to be easier for players to stop the dice compared to other tables.

----------------------

For just about two years posting on WoV and now on this site I have basically said the same thing. If you want to do things straight in Vegas you are looking at about 8 to 20 dollars an hour on average. You should be able to eat for free and get some other freebies. This isn't to say some players haven't found more lucrative opportunities like MC, AxelWolf, RS, KewlJ, Maxpen and others. My point is that it isn't the norm. These players may have figured ways out to make 100s of dollars per hour but you can be sure that at times they have to do things they would consider grey or what they call grey. Even if they do everything by the book and average 100 or more per hour it is not the norm. For the most part even the players who are very good and making around 20 dollars per hour are not the norm in the AP world. It is a very difficult way of life and more so difficult these days. 20 years ago or even before... yes the money was flowing but even at that time players were getting barred from the players club and having all sorts of problems. You can't just walk in constantly and beat the Casino over and over without problems. This is why some of the smart guys who made a few million ran crews and bunches of players going in and taking advantage of promotions and coupons. If you research a few of these smart guys you will see that it eventually caught up with them as well and they are not welcome in most Casinos these days and the door keeps closing on them. Of course once you make a few million and are pretty well set I can understand that it is a fair trade off.

Someone like myself or others like me didn't push plays as hard or didn't have the ambition some of these other guys have or had. I was always happy making 50 or 100 a day and not having any problems or heat. I still feel that way today. Of course when I found key promotions or spots like Over Pays I did punish them but I had a decent knack of getting out early or before issues arose. During that period it wasn't hard to walk across the street and bang on something else. For the most part and I would say 90% of the APs I know or know about are broke and own nothing. They live for the next play or they have other problems and leaks like drinking, drugs, whore mongering, sports book, dice... etc etc. This isn't that hard to imagine anyway. Even the average square honest Joe has the same issues in life. IMO Advantage Play or professional gambling is no different than any other job that would be considered working the street.

This idea that the norm is that APs make 100s of thousands a year and are living the high life 24/7 is fairy tale land. No different than running a business which is proven that most people fail at. Even the ones who can make a profit running a business aren't huge successes for the most part... many of them wind up working 16 hour days making 15 dollars an hour with no benefits and usually up to their eyeballs in hock. Same goes for many APs... up to their eyeballs in hock and loans.

Edit: Even the smartest guy on the web who calls himself the Wizard of Odds falls into problems with leaks. If you follow his posts on WoV you will see where he had so much money he didn't know what to do with it and was betting tens of thousands on bets that are winners in the long run but have monster variance and when you can only bet them once per year it makes things difficult. Even he isn't a robot when it comes to the emotions of Vegas.

[mickeycrimm]

Good info.

What this confirms about how casinos view AP's with what I've said and have written about for years, is that casinos indeed are aware of the AP's. This in turn tells me they have no qualms about offering up all those lucrative sounding/theoretically "+EV" promotions when they know the AP's will jump all over them with as much cash as they can come up with, and play them for as long as they appear to be positive.

The question of course is, while most AP's don't talk publicly about what they do where and how they do, people like Dancer regularly do--and he toots in his articles about how he makes tons of money off of the casinos. So....is this really believable? Can he really be hammering them into the ground while he rapes their slot clubs and giveaway depts., and all they do is look the other way while they keep on inviting him in to do even more damage?

When simple common sense takes over, the answer is of course, simple.

Rob, could you go over some of those promotions and give us the particulars on them to give us an idea of what you are talking about?

[Rob.Singer]

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

[blackhole]

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

Machine glitches was a response to this question I’m going to quote, not about AP. “Quote” “I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.”

His quote above was pretty much word for word how he responded to beating a machine outright. What I took from that was the machine will always get what it has to unless it’s malfunctioning. I think your confusing picking off two-bit jackpots left by people who probably couldn’t care less about them, with beating a machine.

Also, we spoke of VP real briefly and he said he was sure I knew the pay scales are right on the screen, which of course I acknowledged.

My take from our conversation was he was totally current on AP’s, and admitted it exists. He seemed well advised about it, yet, didn’t seem concerned about nor did he ever ask me anything or even appear interested in what I may have known from forums.

I think casinos do their own surveillance and make their own decisions on AP.

I think Monet’s last post above hit the nail on the head. Theirs lots of things in life that happened which could be related to the good ole days and the opportunities are just not that plentiful anymore. Why should AP’ing be any different.

I agree with Bill Yung’s quote “ I guess the so-called AP's here and there think they are some sort of experts while they post up obviously crappy excuses and lives, whereas, people with real lives from the real world continue to demonstrate no need or want to prove, identify, or talk at length about, anything/one.”

It’s the bullshit being thrown around on these sites like Redietz and his or whoever’s 6 figure winnings from off shore illegal USA banking transactions casinos. The broken-down Wizard himself, Meatball Mike being forced to place a tin cup on his AP forum for donations. Kewlj with his BJ bullshit while demonstrating his mental disorders. Most of all the other alleged AP’s on these forums that offer nothing but one-line insults to doubters because they have nothing else. I could go on and on with the nonsense.

To me it sounds like the alleged AP’s that belong to these sites in this day and age could only be to hopefully get a free play or recruit others for help so they could keep eating and pay rent.

Remember one of the alleged self proclaimed kings of AP's at the WOV for years, the one and only WON was making so much money he had to rip people off. You just can't make this shit up.

[mickeycrimm]

No mickey. I don't want to piss off all the AP's. They live by a creed that only allows them to share their secret-handshake info with the WoN.

What do you mean you "don't want to piss off all the ap's?" You never had a problem with it before. C'mon, analyze some promotions, Rob. You're supposed to be a gambling professional. Or it could be...no...well....maybe....is it....because....you...don't....know ....how....to....analyze....promotions? Say it ain't so, Rob, say it ain't so.

[mickeycrimm]

I find it strange that you asked him about advantage play and he started talking about machine glitches. That's not advantage play. It's knowingly playing a malfunctioning machine and is highly illegal. Advantage play is using legitimate strategy to get the edge on casino. It's not a crime.

Machine glitches was a response to this question I’m going to quote, not about AP. “Quote” “I than asked him about the claims of AP’s beating slot machines out right. He said there are many cases where new machines come out and even the manufacturers weren’t aware of some winning glitch accidently created. They are always aware of this possibility and will keep close eyes on the performance of new machines for quite awhile and will in most all cases correct the glitch.”

His quote above was pretty much word for word how he responded to beating a machine outright. What I took from that was the machine will always get what it has to unless it’s malfunctioning. I think your confusing picking off two-bit jackpots left by people who probably couldn’t care less about them, with beating a machine.

Also, we spoke of VP real briefly and he said he was sure I knew the pay scales are right on the screen, which of course I acknowledged.

My take from our conversation was he was totally current on AP’s, and admitted it exists. He seemed well advised about it, yet, didn’t seem concerned about nor did he ever ask me anything or even appear interested in what I may have known from forums.

I think casinos do their own surveillance and make their own decisions on AP.

I think Monet’s last post above hit the nail on the head. Theirs lots of things in life that happened which could be related to the good ole days and the opportunities are just not that plentiful anymore. Why should AP’ing be any different.

I agree with Bill Yung’s quote “ I guess the so-called AP's here and there think they are some sort of experts while they post up obviously crappy excuses and lives, whereas, people with real lives from the real world continue to demonstrate no need or want to prove, identify, or talk at length about, anything/one.”

It’s the bullshit being thrown around on these sites like Redietz and his or whoever’s 6 figure winnings from off shore illegal USA banking transactions casinos. The broken-down Wizard himself, Meatball Mike being forced to place a tin cup on his AP forum for donations. Kewlj with his BJ bullshit while demonstrating his mental disorders. Most of all the other alleged AP’s on these forums that offer nothing but one-line insults to doubters because they have nothing else. I could go on and on with the nonsense.

To me it sounds like the alleged AP’s that belong to these sites in this day and age could only be to hopefully get a free play or recruit others for help so they could keep eating and pay rent.

Remember one of the alleged self proclaimed kings of AP's at the WOV for years, the one and only WON was making so much money he had to rip people off. You just can't make this shit up.

You may as well be talking about restaurant owners. I think it's the business that has the highest failure rate. Something like 90%. Advantage play is a tough nut to crack too. Most fail. Some just exist. A few excell. Probably not even 1 out of a 100 make it in the trade. I'm one of those 1%'ers. What you and others believe has nothing to do with it. Go ahead with your belief that it can't be done. Doesn't bother me. I'll still just keep on keeping on. Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

The inabilty/refusal to learn is the soul of ignorance. Long held beliefs are hard to change. Galileo spent the last ten years of his life under house arrest for simply explaining to the world that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way around. People were clamoring for his execution. I'm sure, blackhole, that had you been around back then you would have been one of them.

[tableplay]

Galileo spent the last ten years of his life under house arrest for simply explaining to the world that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way around. People were clamoring for his execution. I'm sure, blackhole, that had you been around back then you would have been one of them.

http://time.com/7809/1-in-4-american...-orbits-earth/

[blackhole]

Nice article tableplay. I'd be willing to lay odds that the 25% of Americans that didn't know the correct answer were all Hillary voters also. Snowflake is a mild adjective for these fucking idiots.

[blackhole]

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s living in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

[Keystone]

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s livings in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

That is a very good post, and totally agree with most of it....the only thing you fucked up on is bringing up education...you were on a good roll and making a lot of good points until you brought that up...but I must commend you...your spelling and grammar seems to have improved since last time I checked on you...very few misspelled words....by the way it’s “lose”, not “loose”....loose is when something is not fastened securely....but all in all, a good job...you’re really improving...another month and you should be ready for the GED test

[mickeycrimm]

Just remember this. If you don't believe me then you don't believe Rob either. So how about directing more of your vehemence towards him.

At least Rob puts his whole strategy on the table for everyone to read. Whether you believe him or not all you have to do is study it and go try for yourself.

What you're doing in Montana seems doable. Certainly not worth the money or time to go there and see if you're actually knocking off two-bit jackpots.

Monet explained how to take advantage in black and white of mailings. Personally, that thread sounds like an AP starter kit for loser’s living in Vegas. He also seems to expose many truths about the rugged life it appears to be for most.

Most people go to Vegas for a good time. Its usually a trip planned well in advance. It’s about using the casinos for full blown entertainment. Being treated like a king, spas, massages, RFB, great shows, gambling, then coming home and getting back to business.

Of course, everyone hopes to win and do sometimes. We’re not looking or worried about getting a free meal. We don’t give a shit about getting mail. By the time we go back it’s all expired anyway. We’re not going there to earn x amount of dollars per hour. We don’t know about promotions, and certainly don’t expect to sit down for hours on end shoveling money into one machine while playing another one next to it for a couple of plus EV points.

Maybe some of you are killing it. Good for you. It seems like not such a hard career to get involved in. Look at all the admitted un-educated homeless, drifters, etc. that claim they are doing it successfully. Obviously, a college education is not a prerequisite. In fact, I don’t think high school is even required.

Look at Meatball Mike, with all that education and math knowledge. He proved to everyone how it didn’t do him any good. He lost everything and had to beg for money from the same idiots reading his bullshit. Think how stupid this actually is. You're going to help someone out who's teaching you how to loose your own money. After all, he did loose his.

Banking my families future and health on casino promotions and luck, is just not my way.

Yes, I would say I have a lack of education. Didn't even graduate from high school. But I do have an aptitude in math which works out great in AP. Here's one problem I had to solve on a game. It is a video keno game that I have made $120,000 on over the last 10 years. It's just one of the Montana games I AP'd and represented about 20% of my overall income. In analyzing the game here is one problem I had to solve:

You have 80 balls in a keno tank. And 80 balls are drawn. You are playing one way of 3 and one way of 4. What is the chance you will catch at least 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot and at least 2 out of 4 in the 4-spot. By "at least 2 out of 3 in the 3-spot " I mean you have to catch either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3. And by "at least 2 out of 4 in the 4-spot" I mean you have to catch either 2 out of 4, 3 out of 4, 4 out of 4.

Blackhole, AP'ing is not as easy as you think it is. These are the kind of problems you have to be able to solve. You can't get the answer to the above problem on any keno calculator on the internet. You can ask in the forums for an answer but I never did. I solved the problem for myself.

So, blackhole, do you have an answer to the above problem? What do you think the frequency is? Shouldn't take you long to give an answer.