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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #101
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    Happy 44,000thbirthday Jesus
    I find it interesting that those who believe in Science seem to not fully understand their own Religion as you call it. I certainly believe that Religion is different compared to a certain way to believe and live ones life. I for one do not believe in Religion and will have nothing to do with Religion.

    You seem to be hung up on "time" which I am pretty sure that Science (Some Physicists) preach or believe that time doesn't really exist that it is a an illusion created by man. Someone who I do not know said this about time...

    "TIME is not real – it is a human construct to help us differentiate between now and our perception of the past, an equally astonishing and baffling theory states. The concept of time is simply an illusion made up of human memories, everything that has ever been and ever will be is happening RIGHT NOW."

    (Perhaps William Yung will enlighten us as a Physicist. I have asked him several direct questions and I have heard nothing but crickets from him. He does interest me though because when he posts his posts are not very direct. They have a riddle inside a riddle quality about them.)

    Of course I could be wrong about that since I am uneducated and dropped out of high school in the 10/11th grade to hitch hike to Vegas where, I for some reason, knew that I would live most of my life. I had this revelation around the age of 9 which is strange and I certainly can't explain it. It may have been more of a desire compared to some sort of vision or revelation. Perhaps TV or Movies or LV Nights at the local Fire Hall brainwashed it into me. In those days they had no problem with a 9 year old betting in their Casino with his paper route money. The AP play should have been when I lost all the money for my father to go down their and demand the money back since they shouldn't allow children to gamble for real money but he wasn't that smart and I wasn't going to cause a stink because when you lose you don't cry to get your money back.

    Of course this is only one small quote and one must study further to understand or believe in this theory that Science has suggested.

    It seems to me that a few simple things will either put you on one side of the fence or the other. It is clear that an individual when asked these questions can not be in both camps. However, that individual can say one thing and do another fooling themselves or others into thinking they are in one camp when in reality they are on the opposite side.

    1. Is there a God?
    2. Is there only One True God?
    3. Is Jesus the Son of Man/Son of God?
    4. Did Jesus live a sinless life?
    5. Did Jesus die on the cross for the Sin of Man/the World to be reconciled with God?
    6. Did Jesus rise from the dead to conquer death and hell to be seated on the right hand of his father who is God?
    7. Is it possible to accept this and be saved from some eternal damnation?
    8. Does the individual only have to accept or do they have to combine actions with belief to gain access into Gods Kingdom?

    Many other questions but I think it is pretty clear when an individual is confronted with these types of questions they either can answer yes or no, right or wrong, black and white. You have no middle ground when confronted with these types of questions. People will say that life has plenty of grey mixed in but I firmly believe that grey is equal to black and that the individual is being fooled into believing that they have found some sort of middle ground.

    Make no mistake. The AP life is not one of an honest nature. Even if that AP plays it completely straight to the rules laid out by the Casino, Gaming Commission, State... etc. etc. they are only fooling themselves into thinking they have chosen an honest lifestyle or way of life. You may think that I would think that I am exempt or on the right side of the tracks after these statements but it is apparent that the actions of my life shows that I am on the wrong side. The only difference with me is that I know I am on the wrong side and can admit it. My favorite is this guy in Vegas who has been betting sports for years now who makes a decent living at it. He also plays some machines and does that AP thing. He got into one of the Salvation Churches and goes to Church every week and at times will talk about Salvation. However he thinks he is living an Honest, Christ Like Life and can watch movies about Rape/Murder, Gamble, Drink, Smoke Marijuana and all is good. He really has fallen for this, I can live however I want as long as I believe that Jesus is Lord, all is good. I try to explain to him that we make our living inside a den of iniquity. You think Jesus is happy about that or going to give us a pass. Girls dancing in the BJ pit, smoke filled rooms, drugs and alcohol everywhere, prostitutes in every corner... trust me, the Casino is in no shape an honest place to do any business of any sort. So there is no difference in the grinder or the thief in the Casino, none whatsoever except in that AP's mind who think they are acting in an honest way which they and myself included, are not.
    The stuff that's really strange is "quantum entanglement", when two particles are entangled with one another, altering the quantum state of one particle instantaneously affects the quantum state of the other particle even if the particles are on opposite sides of the universe. This phenomenon is not hearsay or speculation, it is scientifically documented through experimentation.

  2. #102
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Dinosaur fossils cannot be age tested using the carbon-14 method because they are millions of years old. To determine their age the isotope’s from uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40 are used. They all have a half-life of more than a million years.
    That is another misleading statement. Fossilised bones are not dated by radioisotope dating methods. There is no way to date a fossil directly.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  3. #103
    I'm not a geologist, but I read that the rock in which the fossil is embedded is tested in order to determine when it was formed, thus inferring when the fossil came to rest within it.
    What, Me Worry?

  4. #104
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    There are two very new video games being introduced into the casinos called Cleopatra Pinball and Texas Tea Pinball. In the bonus round you are playing a virtual pinball game. The word is they are AP'able if you are a good enough pinball player. I tried the game but I don't think my reflexes are fast enough to beat it. It plays very fast.
    You can buy the bonus round in Space Invaders (the video game, not the pinball released in 1980 by Bally) for $20 (WMS makes it), but I have only tried it once (got through the 1st two rounds and not the 3rd for a loss of $10) and never again because it is a touch screen and not actual buttons like the original or at least a joystick - I don't feel comfortable with the touch screen that WMS Space Invaders has. Others here may be good at it.

    In terms of video pinball as a skill-based casino game here are what I think (IMHO) are the important factors for AP opportunities:
    1. the physics: are they as good as the real thing ? Meaning, can the player do drop catches, alley passes, dead bounces, live catches, flipper feeds, post transfers,orbital passes and nudging techniques with similar results as the player would get in real pinball ?
    2. Can the pinball round be bought directly (like Space Invaders) ? (or do you have to lose money in a regular slots round first until the right symbols come up for the bonus round ?)
    3. Is the bonus round timed (or untimed) ? If it is untimed that is highly favorable to an experienced pinball player

    If the answer to these 3 questions is yes then it is worth exploring. If the answer to item 2 is yes, then how much would it cost to directly buy the pinball bonus round versus how much can you make during the pinball bonus round. Otherwise you have to assess the average cost it takes to get to the pinball bonus round versus how much you can make on average if the physics is real world and you have command of the real-world pinball control techniques listed above.
    Yes Nanotech has failed to bring this product to market and now they have pivoted the company in a totally different direction.
    However Gamblit Gaming will be putting a virtual pinball on the floor and no slots bonus round is involved - you pay your money and you then playing virtual pinball for money :

    So if Gamblit's physics are good I will be quite interested.
    Does anyone know if any of these pinball/slots are in northern Indiana or Illinois, or how I can find out if they are here?

  5. #105
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    Happy 44,000thbirthday Jesus
    I find it interesting that those who believe in Science seem to not fully understand their own Religion as you call it. I certainly believe that Religion is different compared to a certain way to believe and live ones life. I for one do not believe in Religion and will have nothing to do with Religion.

    You seem to be hung up on "time" which I am pretty sure that Science (Some Physicists) preach or believe that time doesn't really exist that it is a an illusion created by man. Someone who I do not know said this about time...

    "TIME is not real – it is a human construct to help us differentiate between now and our perception of the past, an equally astonishing and baffling theory states. The concept of time is simply an illusion made up of human memories, everything that has ever been and ever will be is happening RIGHT NOW."

    (Perhaps William Yung will enlighten us as a Physicist. I have asked him several direct questions and I have heard nothing but crickets from him. He does interest me though because when he posts his posts are not very direct. They have a riddle inside a riddle quality about them.)

    Of course I could be wrong about that since I am uneducated and dropped out of high school in the 10/11th grade to hitch hike to Vegas where, I for some reason, knew that I would live most of my life. I had this revelation around the age of 9 which is strange and I certainly can't explain it. It may have been more of a desire compared to some sort of vision or revelation. Perhaps TV or Movies or LV Nights at the local Fire Hall brainwashed it into me. In those days they had no problem with a 9 year old betting in their Casino with his paper route money. The AP play should have been when I lost all the money for my father to go down their and demand the money back since they shouldn't allow children to gamble for real money but he wasn't that smart and I wasn't going to cause a stink because when you lose you don't cry to get your money back.

    Of course this is only one small quote and one must study further to understand or believe in this theory that Science has suggested.

    It seems to me that a few simple things will either put you on one side of the fence or the other. It is clear that an individual when asked these questions can not be in both camps. However, that individual can say one thing and do another fooling themselves or others into thinking they are in one camp when in reality they are on the opposite side.

    1. Is there a God?
    2. Is there only One True God?
    3. Is Jesus the Son of Man/Son of God?
    4. Did Jesus live a sinless life?
    5. Did Jesus die on the cross for the Sin of Man/the World to be reconciled with God?
    6. Did Jesus rise from the dead to conquer death and hell to be seated on the right hand of his father who is God?
    7. Is it possible to accept this and be saved from some eternal damnation?
    8. Does the individual only have to accept or do they have to combine actions with belief to gain access into Gods Kingdom?

    Many other questions but I think it is pretty clear when an individual is confronted with these types of questions they either can answer yes or no, right or wrong, black and white. You have no middle ground when confronted with these types of questions. People will say that life has plenty of grey mixed in but I firmly believe that grey is equal to black and that the individual is being fooled into believing that they have found some sort of middle ground.

    Make no mistake. The AP life is not one of an honest nature. Even if that AP plays it completely straight to the rules laid out by the Casino, Gaming Commission, State... etc. etc. they are only fooling themselves into thinking they have chosen an honest lifestyle or way of life. You may think that I would think that I am exempt or on the right side of the tracks after these statements but it is apparent that the actions of my life shows that I am on the wrong side. The only difference with me is that I know I am on the wrong side and can admit it. My favorite is this guy in Vegas who has been betting sports for years now who makes a decent living at it. He also plays some machines and does that AP thing. He got into one of the Salvation Churches and goes to Church every week and at times will talk about Salvation. However he thinks he is living an Honest, Christ Like Life and can watch movies about Rape/Murder, Gamble, Drink, Smoke Marijuana and all is good. He really has fallen for this, I can live however I want as long as I believe that Jesus is Lord, all is good. I try to explain to him that we make our living inside a den of iniquity. You think Jesus is happy about that or going to give us a pass. Girls dancing in the BJ pit, smoke filled rooms, drugs and alcohol everywhere, prostitutes in every corner... trust me, the Casino is in no shape an honest place to do any business of any sort. So there is no difference in the grinder or the thief in the Casino, none whatsoever except in that AP's mind who think they are acting in an honest way which they and myself included, are not.
    there are 1000 theories and thoguhts and either 999 are wrong or 1000 are wrong (if there is no god.)
    So if 2 people live equal lives...one believes in god and is deserving of heaven, and one doesnt believe in god and lives an equal life...is he deserving of heaven.Is god so egotistical and self centered that he would say "screw you" to the second guy who lived just as good a life without in his mind a promise of heaven? Is it the exclusionary god that Tim Tebow proclaimed would prohibit entry into heaven for those who didnt accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior? So people in other parts of the world dont even have a shot since they never heard of Jesus. ...as Jesus is a god to a minority of the people of the world. Will god say "screw you" to the father who finds his daughter raped and killed in his back yard and doesnt praise the lord. Its all part of Gods plan that we dont understand. Thats the ticket.

    In my religion, the highest form of charity is the anonymous type, where the person doesnt know who gave, and doesnt feel embarrassed or indebted to someone else. So if something good happens to us..why would god need to hear our thanks? Or is something bad happens to us, why would he need to hear thanks as well. Is god so full of himself. Is he a vengeful god where if he doesnt hear enough thanks he will send a hurricane?

    Is sinning and then asking for thanks enough to wipe it out? To me thats the value of churches for people. They can fuck up and then have a representative of god absolve them.....over and over and over. And the more money they give, they possibly can get greater forgiveness for greater sins. I bet the rich and famous get a pass by gods representatives without question.

    So it all comes down on how we live our lives. Some feel good about being kind to others because they feel there is a payoff coming in another world. And some just are kind to others because they were raised that way in a non religious setting but just feel its the right thing to do.

    I am certified for CPR, and gave it twice in my life. Not once before during and after did I think that the deed was going to get me closer to heaven. I just did it as a good neighbor and health professional.

    Maybe if there is a god, he gave us heaven on earth and thats all there is. Maybe if there is a god, he created, and then just moved on to something else. Which would explain how so many people in the world are suffering this very minute. Its possible. Just as possible as a god that is overseeing everything and hanging around. Or maybe he is a sadistic god who looks at us as ants on an ant farm. Iff there is a god all the above are possible.

    And if there isnt a god then none of the above are possible.

    its up to people to take theirpick....and live life with that decision. As long as the decision hurts no one....its all good.

  6. #106
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Make no mistake. The AP life is not one of an honest nature. Even if that AP plays it completely straight to the rules laid out by the Casino, Gaming Commission, State... etc. etc. they are only fooling themselves into thinking they have chosen an honest lifestyle or way of life. You may think that I would think that I am exempt or on the right side of the tracks after these statements but it is apparent that the actions of my life shows that I am on the wrong side. The only difference with me is that I know I am on the wrong side and can admit it.
    I don't buy this for a minute. This is you, trying to justify your actions, your decisions. "It the casino so anything goes". Nonsense.

    The casino industry is predatory by nature. And they make it much worse by choosing some practices that are even more predatory. And as repulsive as that is, that doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want to make a buck. You seem to be saying anything goes in a casino. BULLSHIT!

    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.

  7. #107
    You can't just believe in God and get to heaven. You have to repent of your sins on a regular basis. That's the gist of Protestantism.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 01-24-2018 at 07:42 PM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  8. #108
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post

    Does anyone know if any of these pinball/slots are in northern Indiana or Illinois, or how I can find out if they are here?
    Apparently IGT has a slot locator app, but I'm not sure if these new pinballs are on there yet. I don't have a smart phone, just a flip phone so I am out of luck for this app regardless.
    Last edited by tableplay; 01-23-2018 at 12:06 PM.

  9. #109
    so basically what you are saying is that you will steal up to a point...or will stand by and watch others steal up to a point.

    I admit I have accepted overpayment...so I am not above stealing.

    Many Aps have talked about reaching under and getting extra coins when the machines had coins. And thats just one ploy.

    So the casinos can be considered to be "thieves". What religion allows the rape of a rapist, or the stabbing of an stabber, or stealing from the stealer..

    so maybe monet has a point for himself and people like himself.

    If you feel you are not like him and are an exception...thats cool also

  10. #110
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post

    Does anyone know if any of these pinball/slots are in northern Indiana or Illinois, or how I can find out if they are here?
    Apparently IGT has a slot locator app, but I'm not sure if these new pinballs are on there yet. I don't have a smart phone, just a flip phone so I am out of luck for this app regardless. Anyway you can try this for the web:

    https://www.igt.com/en/products-and-...ng/game-search

    I've seen games at casinos that are not shown by the search, so it's not a comprehensive application.
    when I watched someone play it online, there is a time limit. After a while he was on to "the next ball" even though he hadnt lost the first ball.
    Also I saw the ball hit a bumper and lightening fast the ball went between the flippers. I think as the game goes on there might be some "un-natural" ball movement., unlike you would see in a real pinball game.

  11. #111
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post

    Does anyone know if any of these pinball/slots are in northern Indiana or Illinois, or how I can find out if they are here?
    Apparently IGT has a slot locator app, but I'm not sure if these new pinballs are on there yet. I don't have a smart phone, just a flip phone so I am out of luck for this app regardless. Anyway you can try this for the web:

    https://www.igt.com/en/products-and-...ng/game-search

    I've seen games at casinos that are not shown by the search, so it's not a comprehensive application.
    when I watched someone play it online, there is a time limit. After a while he was on to "the next ball" even though he hadnt lost the first ball.
    Also I saw the ball hit a bumper and lightening fast the ball went between the flippers. I think as the game goes on there might be some "un-natural" ball movement., unlike you would see in a real pinball game.
    That's disturbing news. I would have hoped that it was totally skill-based. I removed the game search link as it is not the same as IGT's casino locator, it is just a way to find out what games they have to offer to gambling venues (I got it confused with their vp locator).

  12. #112
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Make no mistake. The AP life is not one of an honest nature. Even if that AP plays it completely straight to the rules laid out by the Casino, Gaming Commission, State... etc. etc. they are only fooling themselves into thinking they have chosen an honest lifestyle or way of life. You may think that I would think that I am exempt or on the right side of the tracks after these statements but it is apparent that the actions of my life shows that I am on the wrong side. The only difference with me is that I know I am on the wrong side and can admit it.
    I don't buy this for a minute. This is you, trying to justify your actions, your decisions. "It the casino so anything goes". Nonsense.

    The casino industry is predatory by nature. And they make it much worse by choosing some practices that are even more predatory. And as repulsive as that is, that doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want to make a buck. You seem to be saying anything goes in a casino. BULLSHIT!

    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.
    Unless you were worried about losing the store I don't understand why you would leave. I remember when Green Valley first put in FreeBet BJ and paid on dealer 22 for about a week.

  13. #113
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    I admit I have accepted overpayment...so I am not above stealing.
    This is a difficult one for me. I debated on whether to mention it as it probably will give ammo to some.

    How to handle regular overpayments. You could argue they are just a part of the game. (justification).

    My preference would be to correct all misplays in my favor and against. But there is a problem with that doing so, draws attention to me and my game is about drawing as little attention as possible, as few interactions with pit as possible. Unforetunatly that is the way it has to be because the casinos get to pick who can and can't play. So correcting all overpayments as I would like, would be penalizing myself. I won't do that.

    Second scenario would be to accept all mispay for and against, as I said, rationalizing honest mistakes are a part of the game. And that is what I do 90% of the time. As you might guess, I cannot let a mispay against me go when I have my large bets out. That is too costly. So I point them out, accepting the extra attention. Hey I am not perfect, I am flawed too. Sue me.

  14. #114
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I don't buy this for a minute. This is you, trying to justify your actions, your decisions. "It the casino so anything goes". Nonsense.

    The casino industry is predatory by nature. And they make it much worse by choosing some practices that are even more predatory. And as repulsive as that is, that doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want to make a buck. You seem to be saying anything goes in a casino. BULLSHIT!

    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.

    You completely missed what I was saying. I was saying there is no difference between some AP that plays the game strictly by the rules compared to another player who decides to exploit weakness, cheat if you will, take advantage of promotions in a way that the Casino did not intend for the player to take advantage of. My point was against this idea of the AP's that think they are above other AP's because they decide to play it straight. The whole industry is nothing but a dishonest way about going to make money. Make no doubt that the whole idea of the Casino is to make money. It is completely centered around it. You think because you have some sort of moral compass or code that you won't take advantage of a weak dealer that, that will put you above someone like myself who will constantly take overpays without any loss of sleep or a second thought about it. This is not true. We are both swine in the mire. Make no mistake that you constantly have to play a certain way against the Casino every day or you would of been barred a very long time ago. Does that make you morally above the guy who has a dealer partner over paying him on a daily basis and later chopping it up? Perhaps in subjective way of thinking it does but if you can step outside the box and look at it objectively you will see no difference. Most professional AP's do not even understand how it is possible that their ability to earn a living this way started. Make no mistake again that your work or trade as you might call it came from the thieves and con artists of past centuries. If you were involved in this type of community only a hundred or some odd years ago you would have to be more of a shyster compared to what you are today. Perhaps you honestly believe that what you do for a living is honest and helping the world in some small way. The truth is, that what we do, no matter how honest we decide to try and do it, we are only in a trade of pure selfish behavior centered around the all mighty dollar which at one time was called mammon.

  15. #115
    Originally Posted by MaxPen View Post
    Unless you were worried about losing the store I don't understand why you would leave. I remember when Green Valley first put in FreeBet BJ and paid on dealer 22 for about a week.
    It was 12-13 years ago, so I was young and new myself, but I remember thinking this was going to end badly. About the time I realized it and left, others players realized it and started betting table max. It was going to end shortly and it was going to end badly. And being green myself, I wasn't even sure what the consequences might be. I have never discussed it with Bob, might be an interesting topic.

    BUT, even more important to me, is that is just not how I want to win. It really isn't. I made a similar decision a few years later, when I moved to Vegas. First year here I got into hole-carding. Now make no mistake....nothing illegal about hole-carding. One night when I set my alarm to get up at 3am, so I could get to Circus Circus, at 4am for a guy's shift that was extremely 'sloppy', I said to myself "what the hell?" THAT is just not how I want to win. I like and take pride in playing exactly by the rules and winning fairly at THEIR game and rules.

    To each his own...that's just me.

  16. #116
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I don't buy this for a minute. This is you, trying to justify your actions, your decisions. "It the casino so anything goes". Nonsense.

    The casino industry is predatory by nature. And they make it much worse by choosing some practices that are even more predatory. And as repulsive as that is, that doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want to make a buck. You seem to be saying anything goes in a casino. BULLSHIT!

    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.

    You completely missed what I was saying. I was saying there is no difference between some AP that plays the game strictly by the rules compared to another player who decides to exploit weakness, cheat if you will, take advantage of promotions in a way that the Casino did not intend for the player to take advantage of. My point was against this idea of the AP's that think they are above other AP's because they decide to play it straight. The whole industry is nothing but a dishonest way about going to make money. Make no doubt that the whole idea of the Casino is to make money. It is completely centered around it. You think because you have some sort of moral compass or code that you won't take advantage of a weak dealer that, that will put you above someone like myself who will constantly take overpays without any loss of sleep or a second thought about it. This is not true. We are both swine in the mire. Make no mistake that you constantly have to play a certain way against the Casino every day or you would of been barred a very long time ago. Does that make you morally above the guy who has a dealer partner over paying him on a daily basis and later chopping it up? Perhaps in subjective way of thinking it does but if you can step outside the box and look at it objectively you will see no difference. Most professional AP's do not even understand how it is possible that their ability to earn a living this way started. Make no mistake again that your work or trade as you might call it came from the thieves and con artists of past centuries. If you were involved in this type of community only a hundred or some odd years ago you would have to be more of a shyster compared to what you are today. Perhaps you honestly believe that what you do for a living is honest and helping the world in some small way. The truth is, that what we do, no matter how honest we decide to try and do it, we are only in a trade of pure selfish behavior centered around the all mighty dollar which at one time was called mammon.
    This forum needs a THANKS button.

  17. #117
    I agree that while they apply their trade, that Aps provide no value to society.....but I am not sure that would be considered a"sin" by most religions. But then again I am not religious. Buts its not breaking a commandment

  18. #118
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    who decides to exploit weakness, cheat if you will, take advantage of promotions in a way that the Casino did not intend for the player to take advantage of.
    OMG! Wait a minute. Before we get into any other discussion/argument, I object to this statement!

    You CANNOT use "exploit weaknesses", "CHEAT", and "take advantage of promotions in a way the casino's did not intend" in the same sentence as if they are all the same. That is what Griffin did for years by lumping card counters and cheaters together.

    Cheating is cheating! Exploiting weaknesses and taking advantage of a promotion is completely legal. I mean the casinos set the rules (and promotions). Give me a break. Thinking and using your brain is not the same as cheating.

  19. #119
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Make no mistake. The AP life is not one of an honest nature. Even if that AP plays it completely straight to the rules laid out by the Casino, Gaming Commission, State... etc. etc. they are only fooling themselves into thinking they have chosen an honest lifestyle or way of life. You may think that I would think that I am exempt or on the right side of the tracks after these statements but it is apparent that the actions of my life shows that I am on the wrong side. The only difference with me is that I know I am on the wrong side and can admit it.
    I don't buy this for a minute. This is you, trying to justify your actions, your decisions. "It the casino so anything goes". Nonsense.

    The casino industry is predatory by nature. And they make it much worse by choosing some practices that are even more predatory. And as repulsive as that is, that doesn't give me the right to do whatever I want to make a buck. You seem to be saying anything goes in a casino. BULLSHIT!

    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.
    We once had a raw craps dealer. If you made a come bet and the shooter threw a 6 (just using 6 for the example), if you threw your odds out quickly, she would pick up the come bet and the odds, then pay them off. You didn't have to hit the number again. Just make the come bet, get the odds out quickly, and she put them up and paid them.

    And these are games where you have a stick and a box, both of whom should have been monitoring it. Did I feel I was cheating? NEVER!!!!.

    She was equally bad as a teller at the racetrack. I would never make a bet with her there as she was sure to give you a wrong ticket.

  20. #120
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Early in my career, I was playing low limit blackjack in Atlantic City. New, obviously very raw dealer comes to the table. After dealing about 3 cards, you could see how new and raw he was by not only his slowness, but hand actions. A couple rounds go by normal and then all of the sudden mispays. All of the sudden he started paying anyone that was left whether his total was more than theirs or not. In other words, all you had to do was not break and you were going to get paid.

    I played 4 or 5 hands until I was sure what was going on and then I left. I am quite sure one of the table mates, jumped into my spot before I took a step away. Even struggling at the time, playing very low limits, trying to build my bankroll, I wanted no part of that. People make their own decisions and it is a cop out to blame it on the casino environment.
    This reminds me of the Crazy 4 Poker debacle at Hollywood Columbus. They interpreted the rules wrong and didn't force you to make the Super Blind bet. This gave us a nice edge over the game.

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