The WoV Thread

[Alan Mendelson]

I'll never forget the time I was approached in a casino by someone who recognized me from TV. He proudly announced he was an AP. Later I discovered his annual income from gambling was under $8,000 a year. Is that really something to be envied?

Provided he has a day job (i.e. a so-called "real job") then I would have to unequivocally say "Yes!"

I'd feel tip top of the world if I averaged $8K a year from gambling in addition to my earnings from my employment.

Sounds like he's a RAP artist (recreational advantage player).

No. He does not have a day job. His only source of income comes from cashback (hourly rate) playing limit holdem low limit poker and hunting for abandoned multipliers at low level vp. I don't want to say more.

[MisterV]

Nothing to envy there.

But switching gears: what did kj post that made you fear for you safety and report him to the FBI?

Let's just put our cards on the table: if you REALLY are in fear, and if you can REALLY find something he posted which would cause a reasonable person to fear for their safety, then hire a LV attorney to secure the Nevada equivalent of either a domestic violence order for protection or an anti-harassment restraining order.

Your attorney could subpoena Dan to get kj's IP, and with that you can find out who and where he is in order to serve him.

Let us know the date and location of the hearing; I'll be sure to buy a copy of the recording from the court, post it on youtube and post a link to it on this site.

Or is your post just a bunch of bullshit?

[mickeycrimm]

You've criticized health insurance and now you criticize pensions. Why?

I've never criticized health insurance per se. But I have criticized the ACA. The middle class is overpaying in order for the low income and welfare class to have health insurance so cheap it is almost free.

I've never criticized pension plans but I have criticized those that have crazy ideas about AP's and pension plans. An AP is a self employed person. Pensions plans are available for the self employed, like construction subcontractors, restaurant owners, lawyers....and AP's. The kind of pension plans they buy might depend on their level of success. Advantage gambling is like any other occuption; there are those that don't make it just like 90% of restaurant startups don't succeed. There are failure rates for every form of business. There are some AP's that barely survive....and then there are those that thrive (just like any other occupation.)

Alan, the blanket statements you make about AP's don't apply to all AP's.

Unfortunately APs do not produce goods and services for the common good. And if they can't care for themselves when sick or old then it's a double whammy on society. The burger flipper provides a service while the AP does not.

What about the otherwise successful person who has blown a shitload of money lifetime to casino gambling? Couldn't he have done something more productive with the money? Stocks, business, real estate? Taking better care of himself and family? Contributing to causes for those less fortunate? Instead, he addictively blows the money in pursuit of the gratification he feels when the dice are passing. Do you know anyone like that, Alan?

[mickeycrimm]

Kewlj there is no reason for you to know me. I was on TV in LA.

But now is a good time for me to say this. I fear you and I have reported you to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police and to the FBI and Dan has also been appraised of the situation. I have copied and forwarded some of your posts including those where you have threatened violence against others. Stay away from me and in the future it would be best if you do not respond to my posts just as I from now on will not respond to yours. You have been warned.

Tell the FBI for me that you are a retarded idiot that needs his ass kicked, punk.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yes. I remember the owner of a chain of dry cleaning stores in Michigan who flew to Caesars just about every weekend. He lost his business playing craps.

You don't play craps mickeycrimm but it's an interesting experience. Let's say Caesars has a $10 minimum. You could be at that table with a single $10 bet while the player next to you has multiple bets of $5,000 on the table.

Until Celine Dion told Caesars to stop her husband Rene from playing I often played with him late at night. I'd do a buy in for $1,000 and make $25 bets while he made buy ins of $25,000 or more and make $1,000 or $2,000 bets.

He did the same thing at Bellagio up until his final illness. Yes you could argue he could have played with $25 bets like me and donated the rest to charity.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj there is no reason for you to know me. I was on TV in LA.

But now is a good time for me to say this. I fear you and I have reported you to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police and to the FBI and Dan has also been appraised of the situation. I have copied and forwarded some of your posts including those where you have threatened violence against others. Stay away from me and in the future it would be best if you do not respond to my posts just as I from now on will not respond to yours. You have been warned.

Tell the FBI for me that you are a retarded idiot that needs his ass kicked, punk.

Copied.

[mickeycrimm]

Yes. I remember the owner of a chain of dry cleaning stores in Michigan who flew to Caesars just about every weekend. He lost his business playing craps.

You don't play craps mickeycrimm but it's an interesting experience. Let's say Caesars has a $10 minimum. You could be at that table with a single $10 bet while the player next to you has multiple bets of $5,000 on the table.

Until Celine Dion told Caesars to stop her husband Rene from playing I often played with him late at night. I'd do a buy in for $1,000 and make $25 bets while he made buy ins of $25,000 or more and make $1,000 or $2,000 bets.

He did the same thing at Bellagio up until his final illness. Yes you could argue he could have played with $25 bets like me and donated the rest to charity.

Nothing in this about all the money you've unproductively blown lifetime wishing the dice would pass more often.

[mickeycrimm]

Kewlj there is no reason for you to know me. I was on TV in LA.

But now is a good time for me to say this. I fear you and I have reported you to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police and to the FBI and Dan has also been appraised of the situation. I have copied and forwarded some of your posts including those where you have threatened violence against others. Stay away from me and in the future it would be best if you do not respond to my posts just as I from now on will not respond to yours. You have been warned.

Tell the FBI for me that you are a retarded idiot that needs his ass kicked, punk.

Copied.

Rob is right about one thing. Alan Mendelson is an addicted gambler that lashes out at AP's because of it. Alan, did you tell the FBI that KJ's "threatening posts" were recognized by most of us here as a ruse? And that many of us laughed about it? And that those posts were made several months ago and no one has come to any harm? Did you break the law by filling out a false police report? I think you did. What you are doing is reprehensible and hopefully it blows back on you when local law enforcement and/or the FBI charges you with a crime.

[Ozzy]

The number 1 Drama Queen and Tewl here is Mendelson.

[MisterV]

Let me get this straight.

Months ago KJ posted some shit about alan that seemed threatening, but in context was clearly a troll; is that correct?

Some time after that alan left the board.

For whatever reason alan returned.

Upon his return his feud with KJ heated up again and was becoming toxic.

Out of the blue alan says he's now turning KJ into the FBI.

Had he REALLY felt in fear of KJ he would not have returned and / or he would have turned him in months ago when the alleged threat was made.

Does not compute.

Please point out any posts by KJ after alan's return which are of such a threatening level as to involve the FBI.

[Alan Mendelson]

MisterV what makes you think this just happened?

Now I tried to message you but you turned your messages off. This is my final post on the subject to all concerned.

[mickeycrimm]

MisterV what makes you think this just happened? Now I tried to message you but you turned your messages off. This is my final post on the subject to all concerned.

You and Robert Hairy Argentino are snitch bitching cowards.

[RS__]

Unfortunately APs do not produce goods and services for the common good. And if they can't care for themselves when sick or old then it's a double whammy on society.

The burger flipper provides a service while the AP does not.

Who cares if we produce goods and services for the common good, in a general sense?

I don't know what the median or mean income is, but I'm pretty mine is well above that, and so are many/most other APs I know. We, at the minimum, pay more than our "fair share" in taxes -- at least for those of us who do pay taxes (I do).

We stimulate the economy a bit when we travel. Usually it's fairly cheap, but I've had some trips that cost a near metric fuckton in expenses. Round trip flights, rental cars, hotel rooms, food, paying people to play (or sometimes just sit on a good machine before the promotion starts, so we can get it at 12am when the promo starts), for several people, for several days, can get quite expensive.

We pay people to play stuff for us. If there's a good promo that's worth $500/hour for 24 hours, we'll pay someone just to play it for us. They get paid $X/hr and we book all the action, wins and losses.....or whatever deal is made up ahead of time.

Although rare, I've paid people to do the math and analysis on a game/promotion because it was confusing as hell.

Some APs invest their profits, like buying houses and either fixing them up and re-selling them or just renting them out if they're in rentable condition.

Some APs take their profits and start up a company, and simply use AP as a way to raise capital to start on a different venture.

I know 2 APs (okay, one I don't know well) who have trained and just pay people to count cards and the players are paid on an hourly(?) basis / salary plus small bonuses.

Some APs are idiots, but the rest of us tend to tip when we hit a handpay on machines, or over time on table games. One AP I know tipped about $30k in 1 year at one casino to the dealers.


So if we're going to compare an AP to a burger flipper in regards to who has more benefit to society (hey, you brought it up!), I'll take the AP any day over a burger flipper who's likely on food stamps and barely scraping by (nothing wrong with that, per se, everyone's gotta get by). But that burger flipper who makes (at most) $1,390/month is going to have a much easier time getting by if he's making an extra $200-$300+ per weekend by scouting and looking for progressives or good promotions or playing those good promotions.

I'd say if I can pay people to work for me, be able to reinvest my money into something to benefit others, and stimulate the economy (even by a little) by traveling and other costs of doing business, and pay more than my fair share of taxes (ugh, that last one stings), well, that's fine by me. I don't need to flip burgers, pump someone's gas, serve them at a restaurant, do their taxes, or perform surgery on someone to know I've had a positive impact on society.



I'm not sure why you included the part about APs not being able to care for themselves when sick or old. I think you got confused by us saying "insurance is -EV" into somehow thinking that means none of us have insurance nor money to pay for medical stuff.

[kewlJ]

You and Robert Hairy Argentino are snitch bitching cowards.

This is really just more nonsense from these trolls. Alan, this Harry Argentino, Blackhole are bitter old dudes that are anti-AP because they themselves are losing gamblers, just as Argentino recently admitted. So they hate and try to tear down successful AP's. Everything is about trying to discredit us and attack us, even on a person level. They convesre privately behind the scenes planning and scheming their next moves and attacks.

It is pure trolling and these guys are experts. Singer is a sockpuppet expert on numerous sites, manipulating IP addresses and creating literally hundreds of handles. He creates them well in advance, so he has some available at all times.

These anti-AP nut jobs have succeeded in driving numerous AP's and regular positive contributing members from this site and others are posting and participating less. And with a few of us fighting back some and rolling around in the mud with these professional trolls, they are getting desperate. Alan has gone off the deep end with these threats, when there is nothing there.

If anything I could file some complains about all the homophobic hate shit that this Harry Argentino and blackhole have posted. There are avenues to file complains that will be looked into. But that would just create headaches for Dan, so I would never do such. This is the freaking internet Alan. If you are going to troll and you ARE a troll bigtime and have been trolling for a long time.....expect to be trolled back. Really this is typical bully mentality that Alan is exhibiting. They bully, but when someone fights back, go crying into the night. Really lame.

But the really sad part is this site is right back where it started in the gutter. I thought this site had potential to be a decent site for gambling, casino and some AP discussions to benefit all types of casino players. A place to fill some of the void left as WoV has moved away from a legitimate AP/gambling site to whatever it has become. But no, despite his earlier statements that he wanted this site to head in a positive direction, be productive and attract new positive contributing members, Dan Druff has reversed course, allowed Alan to bully him into reinstating Singer and allowed the site to return to a trollfest.

[kewlJ]

The AP's don't make or contribute anything argument? Really? We are back to this?

It is 2018. Everyone isn't a baker, shoemaker or candlestick maker anymore. Many occupations, entire industries are middlemen and paper pushers creating absolutely nothing. What the hell does a journalist create? A journalist is a modern day "towncryer" who usually doubled as the town jester. And someone pushing products paid for....a shyster....what does he create?

It's just a different world, so the creates nothing argument doesn't work. Various occupations, careers and entire industries that don't really create anything, still contribute mightily as we are now a consumer driven society and economy. As long as money is being earned legally, the person earning it contributes just the same as the actual baker and candlestick maker.

Cherry-picking is another thing trolls like to engage in. Here's a very typical tactic. You find one specific example of something that highlights your specific narrative and agenda, like oh...say....give an example of an low level struggling AP that makes oh....say 8 thousand dollars and can't afford insurance and paint that as a typical professional AP.

Let me try that. I'll bet I can google and find plenty of examples of newcaster / journalist that were drug addicts, murderers, child abusers or any such negative activity. I guess that means all journalists are sleezebags and criminals of some sort. (ok bad example cause......maybe they are )

[Keystone]

You and Robert Hairy Argentino are snitch bitching cowards.

This is really just more nonsense from these trolls. Alan, this Harry Argentino, Blackhole are bitter old dudes that are anti-AP because they themselves are losing gamblers, just as Argentino recently admitted. So they hate and try to tear down successful AP's. Everything is about trying to discredit us and attack us, even on a person level. They convesre privately behind the scenes planning and scheming their next moves and attacks.

It is pure trolling and these guys are experts. Singer is a sockpuppet expert on numerous sites, manipulating IP addresses and creating literally hundreds of handles. He creates them well in advance, so he has some available at all times.

These anti-AP nut jobs have succeeded in driving numerous AP's and regular positive contributing members from this site and others are posting and participating less. And with a few of us fighting back some and rolling around in the mud with these professional trolls, they are getting desperate. Alan has gone off the deep end with these threats, when there is nothing there.

If anything I could file some complains about all the homophobic hate shit that this Harry Argentino and blackhole have posted. There are avenues to file complains that will be looked into. But that would just create headaches for Dan, so I would never do such. This is the freaking internet Alan. If you are going to troll and you ARE a troll bigtime and have been trolling for a long time.....expect to be trolled back. Really this is typical bully mentality that Alan is exhibiting. They bully, but when someone fights back, go crying into the night. Really lame.

But the really sad part is this site is right back where it started in the gutter. I thought this site had potential to be a decent site for gambling, casino and some AP discussions to benefit all types of casino players. A place to fill some of the void left as WoV has moved away from a legitimate AP/gambling site to whatever it has become. But no, despite his earlier statements that he wanted this site to head in a positive direction, be productive and attract new positive contributing members, Dan Druff has reversed course, allowed Alan to bully him into reinstating Singer and allowed the site to return to a trollfest.

IamBusiness IamBusiness is offline
Junior Member
Join Date
Jan 2018
Posts
1
I'm a new member who lives and owns a successful current 68-employee business in Las Vegas, and before the pontificating, accusations, and illogical claims begin I'll clue you in on something: I have followed Rob Singer's play strategy (dollars through $25 because I can afford it) since his early days of the column he wrote in our weekly Gaming Today casino newspaper. I have won enough in the past 15 years to buy several homes here, and the only bad thing I can say about learning from his us that my federal taxes have gone up.

I'm fully aware that most of you will instantly cry foul, say I'm Singer because you won't be able to sleep overnight believing I'm not, you'll make up that he's emailing me what to say, or you'll all just cry yourselves to sleep for the next month or two because he does have at least one friend in Vegas. Yes, we are friends. He passed through here in his RV on his way back from his summer home in the Dakotas, and believe me, that rig cost more than any four houses on my street, and they aren't little. I say this because he told me he got banned from here a while back, and the forum is always saying how there's very few of his followers or supporters who go to bat for him. Well why should they? Successful people have no burning need to be insulted or spend the better part of their lives on these things like member LarryS does here. Truth be told, I've never been involved in these things and won't argue with anyone because I'll let you guys play pretend with each other.

Singer told me a story of what it's like to be honest here. He had me read how you all treated Girl Friday, who because she made more sense than the usual trolls I read about, she was immediately accused of being Singer just because she lives in Arizona! Does he really have that much power over mgmt. here, where an entire state gets shut down for membership because there's such a fear of one man?

No, I'm not here soliciting business like I saw Rob's friend Alan exposed of some sportsbettor here. No I don't know a thing about the wov other than what Rob told me about him, which wasn't very impressive. And I have no interest in getting involved in kewlj s sissy-dramas (yes he filled me in on him). What I'm doing is letting the bashers know they really aren't fooling any readers who visit thus site but do not post. I also happen to agree with girl that no ap worth his salt would ever be a regular poster on one of these things unless they were getting paid. I'm amazed that the same small group of people can find the time to babble so much about mostly nothing. I mean, does anybody really care about a poster nobody knows who says he doesn't close down bars anymore? Now how freaking important is that in your daily lives?

By the way, I know Bob Dancer also, and while I get his "always play vp with an edge" shtick, that system never got me anywhere.

I'll close out for now. I'm sure all the Sherlocks will pop on to offer their psycho-analyses of why I posted today or how this little clue here points to it being Singer or he used a key word like "offer" like Singer does all the time or whatever. Go ahead, make your boring day last a little longer. I only came here to debunk your untrue theories about no one supports Singer. That's been accomplished.


You don`t mean like this do you?...."IamBusiness"...lmao

[Alan Mendelson]

RS wrote:

"We pay people to play stuff for us. If there's a good promo that's worth $500/hour for 24 hours, we'll pay someone just to play it for us. They get paid $X/hr and we book all the action, wins and losses.....or whatever deal is made up ahead of time."

Really? $500 an hour?

I'm not anti AP but I am going to ask you to prove this happened. Since it was in the past you should have no problem telling what casino and when?

WhIle I am not anti AP I am anti bogus claims. But if this really happened tell us where and when. If this was just a flippant comment just say so and I'll let it pass.

[Bill Yung]

LOL....you are quoting your "stalker" in your signature line. Who is stalking who?
Are you afraid of your shadow as well?

What the heck are you talking about? Though also I wonder a few things about Alan - some of which stems from incomplete information - comments such as this display a clear lack of English language skills combined with a sheer ignorance in general. But not so far off the stuff KJ turns out.

stalk2
stɔːk/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: stalking
1.
pursue or approach stealthily.
"a cat stalking a bird"
synonyms: creep up on, trail, follow, shadow, track down, go after, be after, dog, hound, course, hunt, pursue, chase, give chase to, run after; informaltail
"he noticed a stoat stalking a rabbit"
2.
stride somewhere in a proud, stiff, or angry manner.
"without another word she turned and stalked out"
synonyms: strut, stride, march, flounce, storm, stomp, sweep, swagger, prance
"without another word she turned and stalked out"

[Bill Yung]

RS wrote:

"We pay people to play stuff for us. If there's a good promo that's worth $500/hour for 24 hours, we'll pay someone just to play it for us. They get paid $X/hr and we book all the action, wins and losses.....or whatever deal is made up ahead of time."

Really? $500 an hour?

I'm not anti AP but I am going to ask you to prove this happened. Since it was in the past you should have no problem telling what casino and when?

WhIle I am not anti AP I am anti bogus claims. But if this really happened tell us where and when. If this was just a flippant comment just say so and I'll let it pass.

At the very least, $500-an-hour plays shouldn't be contracted out.

[Alan Mendelson]

As Bill Yung wrote, "At the very least, $500-an-hour plays shouldn't be contracted out." I'd stay awake for 24 hours at $500 an hour. LOL