The WoV Thread

[mickeycrimm]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

[mickeycrimm]

There are no fucking things as hot and cold cycles. Enough with the god damn conspiracy theories!

One will see the same "hot and cold streaks" with a real deck of cards playing the game at the kitchen table.

[jbjb]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

Same goes for all of his bogus Amazon accounts and the fake reviews left for his books. All have the same general theme trying to denounce "gurus" but praising Rob. Complete bullshit!! He has no REAL followers.

[jbjb]

There are no fucking things as hot and cold cycles. Enough with the god damn conspiracy theories!

One will see the same "hot and cold streaks" with a real deck of cards playing the game at the kitchen table.

Exactly. I was dealing Ultimate Texas Holdem last night, hole card style, and lost 23 hands in a row. These turds just do not understand what variance actually is.

[regnis]

There are no fucking things as hot and cold cycles. Enough with the god damn conspiracy theories!

One will see the same "hot and cold streaks" with a real deck of cards playing the game at the kitchen table.

... These turds just do not understand what variance actually is.

var·i·ance
ˈverēəns/Submit
noun
the fact or quality of being different, divergent, or inconsistent.
"her light tone was at variance with her sudden trembling"
synonyms: difference, variation, discrepancy, dissimilarity, disagreement, conflict, divergence, deviation, contrast, contradiction, imbalance, incongruity More
the state or fact of disagreeing or quarreling.
"they were at variance with all their previous allies"
synonyms: conflicting, in conflict, in disagreement, in opposition; More
LAW
a discrepancy between two statements or documents.

This has been my public service for the day. Now " these turds" know as much as the rest of us all.

[LarryS]

I see that a lot from you.

Neither of my books included any of the details on my successful play strategy, even though the publisher fought me on that. I have disdain for all those who sold their strategies in their books, columns, and/or charged for answering email or phoned-in questions along with an hourly charge for face-to-face advice or training sessions. My 8-year column at GT did include details at times, but I never accepted one dime in payment--which caused an occasional fight there also.

My belief on this is the same as my belief about all these self-promoting "sports handicappers" like redietz and many others: if your gambling strategy is truly a winner then you do not need other people's money to make a go if it....and if you're such a "luminary" of sports handicapping, then just bet more on your own picks, stupid.

And no qua, I've never used my player's card while training others.

why did people buy your books? Werent they looking for specifics? And you say you didnt provide that. Werent they dissappointed?. I mean I cant believe you think people will buy a VP book, and not expect specifics....and not just a declaration that machines can be beat.

That declaration can take 1 page. What did you do on the other 200 pages? Just bullshit?

They were disappointing as far as strategy- although a few examples demonstrated his point. I only got "Ramblin' and Gamblin" thru Nevada" free gratis, which is a book AP's would have enjoyed and was pretty descriptive of the way I was playing. We were warned on VP Truth they weren't strategy books, although the intro example on the web caught my eye. It took me 2 years from his VPTruth site, with frequent questions to break my preconceived ideas and when the articles on hot/cold cycles and goal oriented strategy-along with other concepts were addressed- it all started making sense. And since math only makes sense in the short term- who can blame anyone for being skeptical? I sat where many have sat before- can this be another hoax?

correction. Math only makes sense in the long run. You can flit a coin 10 times and get 8 heads and 2 tales and according to the math it makes no sense . However if you flip in 10,000 times and get 50/50(or close to it)....then the math does indeed make sense.

And followers of singer that buys into the "math doesnt effect me" bullshit is drinking some seriously spiked koolaide.

Actually singer says the oppositer. He says that math only works in the long run...and he declares that he doesnt play in the long run. Because he thinks gambling devises know the difference between day and night and between monday and tuesday. So if he plays tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of hands of VP in a lifetime....its not a long run situation.

However we all agree that flipping a coin 100,000 times in one day would give the same result as flipping it 10 times a day for 10,000 days.

wELL THE SAME GOES FOR PLAYING A MACHINE 100,000 spins in one day, vs 100spins per day over a lifetime

[kewlJ]

Rob Singer and his sock puppets: This is why there is no sense in any of us continuing to attempt any kind of reasonable discussion with this man. Sock puppets means he is literally talking to himself.....multiple personalities if you will. We are literally attempting to have a conversation with a man sitting in the corner talking to and amongst himself.

Hot and cold cycles. Progressive betting. Pure voodoo-ism. Gaining an advantage in any casino game is about mathematics.....NOT voodoo-ism nonsense. Anyone who tells you differently is either lying to you or lying to themselves.

And when a person has no answers to those that challenge his voodoo theories with sound mathematically proven facts, that person will always attempt to misdirect, usually with personal attacks and name calling. This is by the conman playbook. There is nothing new or unusual about Singer's act.

But the fact is that screaming the loudest with the nastiest name-calling and attacks does NOT change the mathematical facts. Screaming loudest does NOT drown out the truth.

[MaxPen]

Singer's return correlates nicely with the recent demise of this forum. Just checked back in here to see what was new. What a sewer. The ownership of this site is seeing what happens when you let roaches have free reign.

[Rob.Singer]

Ha, the Singers of world who sell out the people they sell their useless gambling systems to.

I see that a lot from you.

Neither of my books included any of the details on my successful play strategy, even though the publisher fought me on that. I have disdain for all those who sold their strategies in their books, columns, and/or charged for answering email or phoned-in questions along with an hourly charge for face-to-face advice or training sessions. My 8-year column at GT did include details at times, but I never accepted one dime in payment--which caused an occasional fight there also.

My belief on this is the same as my belief about all these self-promoting "sports handicappers" like redietz and many others: if your gambling strategy is truly a winner then you do not need other people's money to make a go if it....and if you're such a "luminary" of sports handicapping, then just bet more on your own picks, stupid.

And no qua, I've never used my player's card while training others.

why did people buy your books? Werent they looking for specifics? And you say you didnt provide that. Werent they dissappointed?. I mean I cant believe you think people will buy a VP book, and not expect specifics....and not just a declaration that machines can be beat.

That declaration can take 1 page. What did you do on theother 200 pages? Just bullshit?

People bought my books for the same reason they made my column the most popular column in GT history--because it exposed vp-ap as nothing but impossible to attain a profit from without extreme good luck and without the ability to create winning years from self-valuing all the slot club and oromotional fluff that comes along. They also clearly explained how no player ever enters the so-called "long-term", players only play in short term bursts hoping to get lucky no matter how they play, and that the collection of "gurus & experts" are only out to move money from your pockets to theirs by selling simple math strategy. I led interested people to my pop-up and ad-free website for details on my method of play.

IE, The Undeniable Truth.

[LarryS]

the owner originally allowed singer back on one thread. Singer took it upon himself to disregard the directionof the owner and take full liberties on any and all threads that he chose. That was a managerial decision to step aside and let him disregard the original directive.......good or bad.......time will tell

[Rob.Singer]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

There you go again mickey, wishing your made-up stories were true because you want them to be.

Wizard came under the same type accusations from jealous and hate-filled members about a poster named Jerry Logan, but his analyses--which I'm sure are far more comprehensive than your conspiracy theories--led him to announce that there was no proof of the claim.

But you--a school and social dropout, alcoholic and total misfit--want others to believe you know more than an educated actuary.

The Bozo syndrome.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

Same goes for all of his bogus Amazon accounts and the fake reviews left for his books. All have the same general theme trying to denounce "gurus" but praising Rob. Complete bullshit!! He has no REAL followers.

Whoops! jbjb. My books and my columns never included any insight or info on hot/cold streaks, 5th card flipovers, or on some machines being biased. These anomalies were investigated post 2008.

[Rob.Singer]

why did people buy your books? Werent they looking for specifics? And you say you didnt provide that. Werent they dissappointed?. I mean I cant believe you think people will buy a VP book, and not expect specifics....and not just a declaration that machines can be beat.

That declaration can take 1 page. What did you do on the other 200 pages? Just bullshit?

They were disappointing as far as strategy- although a few examples demonstrated his point. I only got "Ramblin' and Gamblin" thru Nevada" free gratis, which is a book AP's would have enjoyed and was pretty descriptive of the way I was playing. We were warned on VP Truth they weren't strategy books, although the intro example on the web caught my eye. It took me 2 years from his VPTruth site, with frequent questions to break my preconceived ideas and when the articles on hot/cold cycles and goal oriented strategy-along with other concepts were addressed- it all started making sense. And since math only makes sense in the short term- who can blame anyone for being skeptical? I sat where many have sat before- can this be another hoax?

correction. Math only makes sense in the long run. You can flit a coin 10 times and get 8 heads and 2 tales and according to the math it makes no sense . However if you flip in 10,000 times and get 50/50(or close to it)....then the math does indeed make sense.

And followers of singer that buys into the "math doesnt effect me" bullshit is drinking some seriously spiked koolaide.

Actually singer says the oppositer. He says that math only works in the long run...and he declares that he doesnt play in the long run. Because he thinks gambling devises know the difference between day and night and between monday and tuesday. So if he plays tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of hands of VP in a lifetime....its not a long run situation.

However we all agree that flipping a coin 100,000 times in one day would give the same result as flipping it 10 times a day for 10,000 days.

wELL THE SAME GOES FOR PLAYING A MACHINE 100,000 spins in one day, vs 100spins per day over a lifetime

Larry you're making that up about me.

What I say is that when we sit down to play any VP machine, it is somewhere within its long-term life of hands and results. We simply enter that life at an unknown point in time, and it offers any of us--optimal-only players, carefree doofus type players, or anyone who plays as I do--the same opportunities to win, lose or tie while we are there. Therefore, there is no true advantage to be gained by playing every hand mathematically perfect, as anything can happen. Yes play most hands that way, but make the most if certain deals when they come along....don't simply go for the sure-thing or probable small winner or tie if a big-win opportunity presents itself. Anyone may be in a bad streak just as well as a good one. That's why APs who chase promotions are being fooled.

[mickeycrimm]

Rob, if I work a promotion where every quad gets a 125 coin bonus do you really think I'm being fooled?

[mickeycrimm]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

There you go again mickey, wishing your made-up stories were true because you want them to be.

Wizard came under the same type accusations from jealous and hate-filled members about a poster named Jerry Logan, but his analyses--which I'm sure are far more comprehensive than your conspiracy theories--led him to announce that there was no proof of the claim.

But you--a school and social dropout, alcoholic and total misfit--want others to believe you know more than an educated actuary.

The Bozo syndrome.

But also according to you Shack is a loser that doesn't know anything.

[slingshot]

Rob has been using sockpuppets for years. The very first I know of was on FREEvpFREE about 14 years ago. A new poster showed up by the username of Aces_hii. Of course, he was very supportive of Rob and his system. There were several posts made with Singer and Aceshii and some others interacting. Everyone had Aceshii pegged as a Singer sock. Then one day Singer got the usernames tangled up and made a post under the Aceshii username but as Rob Singer. You can't delete posts on FREEvpFREE so after Rob seen his mistake he said his yahoo account had gone down so he borrowed Aceshii's username to make a post. Of course, we were all laughing our asses off at Rob's stupidity. It's all there in the archives for the whole world to read and draw your own conclusions. Aceshii disappeared and to this day has never been heard from again.

Same goes for all of his bogus Amazon accounts and the fake reviews left for his books. All have the same general theme trying to denounce "gurus" but praising Rob. Complete bullshit!! He has no REAL followers.

Whoops! jbjb. My books and my columns never included any insight or info on hot/cold streaks, 5th card flipovers, or on some machines being biased. These anomalies were investigated post 2008.

I believe they were in their infancy when the last of your articles were published of VP Truth. Strangely, a fairly detailed group of discussions were here on this forum that of course were rejected. The ONE time I tried the SP strategy starting at nickels, I witnessed about 600 credits of junk hands before hitting 4A's /kicker on dimes for a $50 + $10 soft profits win. I was exhausted keeping up, but I certainly witnessed the hot/cold cycles.

[kewlJ]

But also according to you Shack is a loser that doesn't know anything.

Shack is a loser? In what sense of the word? If we are talking about his results as a player, I have no idea. Has he ever reveled any kind of results? Without knowing the numbers, I would find it very hard to believe Michael is a loser as far as long-term gambling results. He is just way too smart, completely understands the mathematics involved with all games and only plays when he believes he has a significant advantage.

I remember one private discussion I had with him concerning a card counting opportunity and he wasn't all that interested. His response was something along the lines that "he just didn't do much card counting any more. That the advantage is just too small to make it worthwhile for him". Basically saying he was only interested in plays with a larger advantage. (This was post WoO/WoV sale, so presumably he wasn't interested in small potatoes )

My point being it is very hard to see a guy with that kind of knowledge and mathematical understanding, only interested in higher advantage plays ending up a loser (results). If he did there is something else going on there. (and I am not suggesting anything).

Now if the term 'loser' is referring not to results, but to him as a person....well that's something else. He does have some qualities that make him a rather small individual in my book. But that's a different discussion.

As far as "doesn't know anything"....well I have already addressed that. Michael Shackleford is a brilliant mathematical mind, in reference to gambling and other topics. I wish I has one-tenth his mathematic ability.

[Rob.Singer]

But also according to you Shack is a loser that doesn't know anything.

Shack is a loser? In what sense of the word? If we are talking about his results as a player, I have no idea. Has he ever reveled any kind of results? Without knowing the numbers, I would find it very hard to believe Michael is a loser as far as long-term gambling results. He is just way too smart, completely understands the mathematics involved with all games and only plays when he believes he has a significant advantage.

I remember one private discussion I had with him concerning a card counting opportunity and he wasn't all that interested. His response was something along the lines that "he just didn't do much card counting any more. That the advantage is just too small to make it worthwhile for him". Basically saying he was only interested in plays with a larger advantage. (This was post WoO/WoV sale, so presumably he wasn't interested in small potatoes )

My point being it is very hard to see a guy with that kind of knowledge and mathematical understanding, only interested in higher advantage plays ending up a loser (results). If he did there is something else going on there. (and I am not suggesting anything).

Now if the term 'loser' is referring not to results, but to him as a person....well that's something else. He does have some qualities that make him a rather small individual in my book. But that's a different discussion.

As far as "doesn't know anything"....well I have already addressed that. Michael Shackleford is a brilliant mathematical mind, in reference to gambling and other topics. I wish I has one-tenth his mathematic ability.

mickey's simply doing what he does best--make it all up on the go trying so hard to be respected as just another anonymous clown.

Shack has told me in person that he is not an overall loser in ap gambling, but he is in vp. I never saw a reason not to believe him. Successful gambling requires higher than average intelligence, and not only in mathematics. I saw that quality in my time with him.

[kewlJ]

I believe they were in their infancy when the last of your articles were published of VP Truth. Strangely, a fairly detailed group of discussions were here on this forum that of course were rejected. The ONE time I tried the SP strategy starting at nickels, I witnessed about 600 credits of junk hands before hitting 4A's /kicker on dimes for a $50 + $10 soft profits win. I was exhausted keeping up, but I certainly witnessed the hot/cold cycles.

This is just pure nonsense. Pure voodoo. Maybe in a very small trial like you are giving an example of your results were positive. Small sample size means NOTHING! A guy walks into a casino and bets black at the roulette table for 4 spins. He wins 3. He then posts he has a roulette system that wins 75% of the time. LOL. THAT is what small sample sizes can give ya.

The fact is what Singer is promoting is a progression system. Progressive systems DO NOT change the odds of a game. Progression systems can not turn a negative EV game into a positive EV game. It is mathematically impossible, no matter what 'spin' you he or one many different voices in his head that he posts as, puts on it. All progression systems do is change the distribution of wins and losses....NOT the total outcome.

Progressions CAN NOT change a negative expectation game into a positive expectation game!
Progressions CAN NOT change a negative expectation game into a positive expectation game!
Progressions CAN NOT change a negative expectation game into a positive expectation game!
Progressions CAN NOT change a negative expectation game into a positive expectation game!

Eventually every progression system ends up the same way. It changes the distribution of wins and losses so that you have many smaller wins. But eventually there comes a string where the player doesn't "hit" with in the progression and ends up with a HUGE loss wiping away many, many small wins. This isn't an unusual event, it is a mathematical event (normal variance), as per the mathematics of the game. Nothing, you, Singer or any proponent of progression systems say will change that, including "stop limits". The first reaction of progression proponents is to employ 'stop limits'. That doesn't work either. That is employing one voodoo technique on top of another.

There is nothing new about any of this. This has been tried and failed forever. I refer you to the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[Rob.Singer]

the owner originally allowed singer back on one thread. Singer took it upon himself to disregard the directionof the owner and take full liberties on any and all threads that he chose. That was a managerial decision to step aside and let him disregard the original directive.......good or bad.......time will tell

Singer evaluated the situation and reacted accordingly. Just like he did when he discovered vp-ap didn't work.

And who here besides me here has the talent to get tippie-toes all riled up and flustered enough to keep on claiming he's "done!" Surely there's a gold star awaiting me....