2018 start

[mickeycrimm]

Bullshit. No bank ever gave a mortgage based on EV. Stop your nonsense.

He has proven steady income. That income is based on the EV that he plays off. Stop your nonsense.

[mickeycrimm]

Why? Because Mr Boz claimed I created the $900 an hour figure while all I did was use the math for your return for one minute. Go back in this thread and read the exchange. I am well aware that no matter what I say I will be challenged. Even when I agree with MisterV for example about DI schools even he challenges me.

Not only is the one minute play worth an average $15 profit but I bet only one nickel at a time for an average of 36 spins. The cost to spin the play off is 13 coins (65 cents) but the return is about $16 so about a $15 profit per play. Moneywise it's the smallest play I have. I exploit a dozen different games in Montana. But percentagewise it's the biggest play I have. A $15 profit on a 65 cent investment. That's a return of 2300% for one minute.

[Alan Mendelson]

Bullshit. No bank ever gave a mortgage based on EV. Stop your nonsense.

He has proven steady income. That income is based on the EV that he plays off. Stop your nonsense.

Stop your double talk. For all we know he had 20% down and got a no qualifying mortgage.

If he did have to qualify it was based on actual income and down payment.

Stop this bullshit about EV. It doesn't exist in the real world.

[Alan Mendelson]

Why? Because Mr Boz claimed I created the $900 an hour figure while all I did was use the math for your return for one minute. Go back in this thread and read the exchange. I am well aware that no matter what I say I will be challenged. Even when I agree with MisterV for example about DI schools even he challenges me.

Not only is the one minute play worth an average $15 profit but I bet only one nickel at a time for an average of 36 spins. The cost to spin the play off is 13 coins (65 cents) but the return is about $16 so about a $15 profit per play. Moneywise it's the smallest play I have. I exploit a dozen different games in Montana. But percentagewise it's the biggest play I have. A $15 profit on a 65 cent investment. That's a return of 2300% for one minute.

Excellent. Mr Boz did you see this?

[mickeycrimm]

Me? I have a pension plan that alone is worth triple what your lifetime wins are. And social security is icing on the cake as is my health insurance for life.

The casino loves your pension. It's how they pay the bills. And you do to because it comes in installments and you can't blow it all at once in the casino. That's what would happen if you received your pension in a lump sum. You would blow it all gambling in a New York minute.

[DJatc]

yo is this guy for real with this can't pay the bills with EV nonsense

[Alan Mendelson]

yo is this guy for real with this can't pay the bills with EV nonsense

PLEASE tell me ONE BILL you paid with EV? I'm waiting.

[kewlJ]

Welcome DJatc. And I am afraid he is.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj why don't you tell me one bill you paid with EV?
How about you Mickey, just one bill paid with EV?

[RS__]

"Banks don't give me mortgage based on my EV."

*Has negative EV*


mans not hot

[mickeycrimm]

Kewlj why don't you tell me one bill you paid with EV?
How about you Mickey, just one bill paid with EV?

In round numbers I play off about $5000 a month in expectation (EV). I pay all my bills, rent, utilities, insurance, fuel, motels, meals, and sundry other expenses from the EV I play off every month. The actual results come in pretty close to expectation, a little more or a little less.

[girlfriday]

Hello to everyone. I feel like I'm entering a battle zone by joining, but after being a non member reader for a few years I finally found a thread where I know more than a passing amount about. (I play blackjack with my husband on our bi-monthly trips to Vegas also, and while he just wants to PLAY, I have a strong math background and I consider myself a good counter).

But my real comments right now have to do with this. We lived in Boulder City for about 8 years, and I was a mortgage specialist at Bank of America in the city. I still work for that bank but in another city and in another capacity. In short, I was instrumental in the final approval & underwriting of non-commercial home loans.

What caught my eye in this thread was where someone said they were a professional gambler and they used 5 years of tax returns as support for securing their mortgage. (I'm assuming they showed positive income for each of those years?)

Here's the issue; naturally in a city like Las Vegas we saw many applications from people who gave Pro Gambler as their occupation, and past returns were required. But this in and of itself was insufficient to secure a loan, no matter the amount of past income shown or the amount of loan-to-purchase.

In short, what the underwriters look for is the ability to pay back money loaned, and even though multiple years of past income is presented, we never saw a loan approved with the promise of repayment because an applicant said they would do that by gambling alone. That's like an investor showing success in the market as a means of a down payment, then expecting the loan to be approved going forward with profits from a hopefully rising stock exchange. Not going to happen.

What I have seen a lot of, and that may be the case here, is people who claim Pro Gambler as a profession and who also have other income because of a skill, situation, or such. For example, a part time job, social security income, disability income, annuity, and so forth. But if any application came in with professional gambler being their only source of past and expected future income, it became an automatic denial. In other words, an applicant must show continued expected income in a field where, should they continue on that skill path, absolute income (IE, the ability to have a real income to repay from) is verifiable. Gambling in any manner does not meet this requirement.

Hope this helps. I know there's a lot of words thrown around on forums by people who want to be known as gambling experts, but I'll try to keep my postings to that which I'm knowledgeable about. I'll talk about my blackjack play when I get home from work.

[Bill Yung]

The reason that some problem gamblers turn to family or embezzlement for more money to gamble.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj why don't you tell me one bill you paid with EV?
How about you Mickey, just one bill paid with EV?

In round numbers I play off about $5000 a month in expectation (EV). I pay all my bills, rent, utilities, insurance, fuel, motels, meals, and sundry other expenses from the EV I play off every month. The actual results come in pretty close to expectation, a little more or a little less.

You're still giving me a run-around answer so I'm going to help you out. EV is expected value which comes before the bet is resolved. As an example you bet $10 and your EV with a match play coupon or cashback or comp points is now X-percent. That's EV.

After the bet is resolved you have your result. You might have lost the bet and have zero dollars or you might have won the bet and now have, for example, $24.09 in combined cash plus points.

That $24 is not EV but is now real money and if you can cash out the cents that's real money too.

But EV is never real money. It is only what you expect a bet to be worth win or lose.

And by the way some losing bets do have an EV if for example there are points or rebates given for your play, and this includes comp dollars. You might lose $8800 in real money but if you're getting $88 back as cashback or comps that becomes something of real value.

But NEVER is EV an actual currency.

And, welcome girlfriday to the forum. Thank you for posting. I only hope you are treated with respect.

[MisterV]

Here's the issue; naturally in a city like Las Vegas we saw many applications from people who gave Pro Gambler as their occupation, and past returns were required. But this in and of itself was insufficient to secure a loan, no matter the amount of past income shown or the amount of loan-to-purchase.

In short, what the underwriters look for is the ability to pay back money loaned, and even though multiple years of past income is presented, we never saw a loan approved with the promise of repayment because an applicant said they would do that by gambling alone.

I can understand skepticism about copies of tax returns: they can be faked.

But what if in addition to tax returns showing an average net income well within qualifying range the borrower also presented with five or more years of bank records, which mirror and substantiate the amount of income claimed on the return?

[MaxPen]

In no way is a professional gambler going to be treated differently than any other self employed person when it comes to getting a mortgage.

[Alan Mendelson]

Here's the issue; naturally in a city like Las Vegas we saw many applications from people who gave Pro Gambler as their occupation, and past returns were required. But this in and of itself was insufficient to secure a loan, no matter the amount of past income shown or the amount of loan-to-purchase.

In short, what the underwriters look for is the ability to pay back money loaned, and even though multiple years of past income is presented, we never saw a loan approved with the promise of repayment because an applicant said they would do that by gambling alone.

I can understand skepticism about copies of tax returns: they can be faked.

But what if in addition to tax returns showing an average net income well within qualifying range the borrower also presented with five or more years of bank records, which mirror and substantiate the amount of income claimed on the return?

The lack of knowledge here is overwhelming. BANKS CAN AND DO VERIFY YOUR TAX RETURNS. As a matter of fact there are new IRS rules for this process that are being disputed by the banks because these new rules are slowing the mortgage process.

Again it's very possible that a gambler with a substantial down payment was given a "non qualifying" mortgage. These mortgages are offered by various lenders who may be outside traditional banks. I've done Infomercials for these lenders. If you want a recommendation PM me.

[Alan Mendelson]

In no way is a professional gambler going to be treated differently than any other self employed person when it comes to getting a mortgage.

It depends on the lender. See my response to MisterV above.

[Alan Mendelson]

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/mortgag...irs-49519.html

Info about banks verifying your tax returns.

[MisterV]

Well of course lenders contact the IRS to try to verify whether the return proferred matches the one filed.

That does nothing to verify that the info reported on the return was accurate; something more, something "objective" is needed.

Assume the borrower owns a small cash-intense business; he'll not receive W-2 income as his only source of income comes from cash paid in by customers.

He deposits it daily in the bank, and has bank records to substantiate it.

Examination of bank records is a viable alternative to proving regular income, and it should suffice for a professional gambler.